McDonald's, 29 other firms get health care coverage waivers

[TechMan]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2010-10-07-healthlaw07_ST_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

Summary:  McDonald's and 29 other corporations get exemptions won't be required to raise the minimum annual benefit for low-cost health insurance plans. DHHS says it granted the exemptions so that the companies wouldn't drop the low-cost health insurance plans.  The state of Massachusetts received a waiver as well for 5,000 18-26 year olds that cannot get coverage from their work.  This is part of the Massachusetts universal coverage program. Waivers are valid for 1 year.  The largest waiver was for 351,000 people in the United Federation of Teachers Welfare Fund, which is a New York union covering city teachers.

Comments:  Buuuuuuut what about covering EVERYBODY!?!?!?!   

[grampster]

I've just received a letter from my company.  The letter says that in order for the company to protect the benefits it provides employees/retirees, the Blue Care Network plan for retirees (me) is hereby discontinued and we'll will be enrolled in a special BlueCross BlueShield plan created just for retirees.  600 dollar deductible, (0 now) 6000 co pay (0 now) and 80/20 (full coverage now) for the rest of the claim.  It won't cover some things we get now.   So it's a crappy plan in place of a reasonable one.  They haven't told us the cost yet, but since it includes only retirees, our rates will probably double.  We pay 256.00 a month now.

I'm so pissed I could chew nails.  FFFFFFFFFing Democrats!

[lupinus]

Overall we got off not quite as bad as expected.

Roughly 12% increase in all three plans offered, and about 15-20% increase in deductibles. Really screwed with the most attractive plan though. Came with a company paid HRA account which effectively made the deductible a hundred dollars more, but due to the high deductible (about twice as much) the premium was significantly less. Nice thing with our HRA was it got used up first and paid directly to the doctor, not reimbursement. Was great when you go to the doctor once maybe twice a year. This year they jacked up the deductible and lowered the HRA, made it basically worthless compared to the next plan up which is the same coverage level with no HRA, a lower deductible, and slightly higher premium.

[Gowen]

What a crock!  The only silver lining in this is my MCD stocks went up.

[Pat McCoy]

Grampster,

Probably not quite as bad as you've written.  The 80/20 after the deductible is not for rest of the clai, but only up to the $6000 out of pocket limit.  100% coverage thereafter. 

Still a significant decrease in coverage.

[AZRedhawk44]

I've just received a letter from my company.  The letter says that in order for the company to protect the benefits it provides employees/retirees, the Blue Care Network plan for retirees (me) is hereby discontinued and we'll will be enrolled in a special BlueCross BlueShield plan created just for retirees.  600 dollar deductible, (0 now) 6000 co pay (0 now) and 80/20 (full coverage now) for the rest of the claim.  It won't cover some things we get now.   So it's a crappy plan in place of a reasonable one.  They haven't told us the cost yet, but since it includes only retirees, our rates will probably double.  We pay 256.00 a month now.

I'm so pissed I could chew nails.  FFFFFFFFFing Democrats!

This is one of the few things I agree with that the Health Care plan SHOULD do.  Make the cost of health care be at least PARTIALLY born by the insured.

Health Care should not be "free."  As you can see, it becomes insanely expensive and accountability for the fee schedules moves to 2nd/3rd/4th parties when the actual consumer and the actual health care provider are BOTH removed from the demand for payment and the rendering of payment processes.

All that happens, is the 2nd/3rd/4th parties take a slice as they continue to spiral the costs out of control.

Same thing happened with the real estate market.  People started taking extra mortgages out when the home values artificially inflated, and buying second homes or upgrading to larger homes.  The realtor costs and closing fees were "hidden" in the refinancing structures and inflated home values.

Result?  The realtors and mortgage broker institutions walked away with all the fees involved, the cost of the realtor/broker fees was bundled into the artificially inflated loan, the borrower took a ding on their credit during a repo, and the bank took it on the chin.

The realtors and mortgage brokers are equivalent to the 2nd/3rd/4th parties that are gnawing on health care right now.

Watch for the same thing to happen to college education, soon.  There's no accountability in the lending process, and a LOT of the mortgage broker institutions are re-gearing to the education market (i.e. the flash ads on your hotmail/yahoo mail login, telling you "Obama wants single moms to go back to school!").  In 5-10 years, we'll be hearing about a rash of education loan defaults.  Sallie Mae will be the next Fannie Mae / Freddy Mac.  Stafford loans will be the next equivalent to FHA bailouts.

If health care is ever truly reformed to a functional system, several things will happen:
-A lot of IT people will be laid off (pre-authorizing appointment insurance is the latest "cool thing" for medical offices to do... the software interfaces from your Dr's office to a central broker house are very expensive...but so is having a patient show up with false insurance paperwork)
-A lot of medical billers will be laid off (how many radio ads and web banners have you seen for "work at home! Do medical billing in your spare time!  Set your own hours!"?)
-The patient will pay (at least part) of the fees for the visit up-front.  Not a co-pay, but they will know the actual cost for the service rendered and make a conscious decision to consume or not.
-The patient will then NOT consume medicine when the cause is trivial, reducing the demand in the marketplace since insurance creates false demand (it doesn't cost me anything except my time, so I might as well check it out "just in case.")

[De Selby]

I've just received a letter from my company.  The letter says that in order for the company to protect the benefits it provides employees/retirees, the Blue Care Network plan for retirees (me) is hereby discontinued and we'll will be enrolled in a special BlueCross BlueShield plan created just for retirees.  600 dollar deductible, (0 now) 6000 co pay (0 now) and 80/20 (full coverage now) for the rest of the claim.  It won't cover some things we get now.   So it's a crappy plan in place of a reasonable one.  They haven't told us the cost yet, but since it includes only retirees, our rates will probably double.  We pay 256.00 a month now.

I'm so pissed I could chew nails.  FFFFFFFFFing Democrats!

You honestly believe the Democrats are the cause of rising heath care costs??? 

How do we all explain the consistent skyrocketing through multiple administrations and congressional power-changes over the last 30 years?

I get private cover with medical, dental, alternative (accupuncture & massage) and vision for about $60 a month.  This in addition to my tax payment of 1.5% for medicare (I'd have to pay 2.5 if  I didn't get private insurance.)

Somehow, I don't think the insurance companies have an interest in keeping costs down in America.  It's not like they do better when you get more service at a lower price - it seems to be the opposite.  If you get fewer services with higher premiums, the insurance company makes more money.  That might explain the prices a little more sensibly than political changes.

[Monkeyleg]

Somehow, I don't think the insurance companies have an interest in keeping costs down in America.  It's not like they do better when you get more service at a lower price - it seems to be the opposite.  If you get fewer services with higher premiums, the insurance company makes more money.  That might explain the prices a little more sensibly than political changes.

Very true. There is no competition in a capitalist society like ours, so there's no motivation for one company to try to acquire another company's customers with lower prices.

[TommyGunn]

You honestly believe the Democrats are the cause of rising heath care costs???  

How do we all explain the consistent skyrocketing through multiple administrations and congressional power-changes over the last 30 years?

I get private cover with medical, dental, alternative (accupuncture & massage) and vision for about $60 a month.  This in addition to my tax payment of 1.5% for medicare (I'd have to pay 2.5 if  I didn't get private insurance.)

Somehow, I don't think the insurance companies have an interest in keeping costs down in America.  It's not like they do better when you get more service at a lower price - it seems to be the opposite.  If you get fewer services with higher premiums, the insurance company makes more money.  That might explain the prices a little more sensibly than political changes.

GOVERNMENT  is the PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And not just the demonrats, but the repukeagains, and not only the FEDERAL govt. (but mainly them).
Insurance companies run at about a 3% profit rate for one; they're a huge industry.
But, government regulations, usually requiring certain types of coverages (these usually happen in state governments but some federal mandates have occured) have greatly driven up prices.  Years ago you could select what you wanted covered and had a lot of buying options.  Now, while selections are still there there are a lot of mandates.  These drive up prices.  You want to have prostrate cancer covered?   OK, here's a rider.  Now it's mandated so the price is INCLUDED.  I mean, it's great .... but not for the women who want coverage.
EVERYONE pays.
And it's going to get worse.  Want pre-existing conditions covered?   Fine.   Obama has waved his magic wand so now it's gonna be covered.  
AND PAID FOR. You're gonna be doing the paying ---in more ways than one.
Used to be, you were pegged in a certain age/sex/race group and deemed to have 1 chance in X,XXX,XXX chance of getting a particular disease .... actuarial tables are examined and you are charged based upon risk.
It's "pre-existing??"  Hey, that's no "RISK" --- that is a CERTAINTY!
Think THAT  ain't gonna cost you???
Think AGAIN!!!!
In fact, it is not really unreasonable to expect companies to be going out of business ---- I mean, our esteemed messiah is whining about how hard he's gonna stomp companies that "unreasonably" raise prices.  So they're gonna go belly-up sooner or later.
Unless they can get a better business plan laid out, and it's gonna take a megasupercomputer to work that out given the uncertainty Mr. Hopy-Changy has injected into the system
The end result.....

SINGLE PAYER!!

And then for those who are afflicted with a terminal illness .... won't it be wonderful to have to wait those six months to see a specialist because the old doctors have retired or fled the system .... and no one wants to become a doctor anymore.....

Have fun.
 

[De Selby]

Very true. There is no competition in a capitalist society like ours, so there's no motivation for one company to try to acquire another company's customers with lower prices.

There certainly is not very much competition in that market, but it's true that competition operates against price gouging generally. It's demonstrably failed to reduce prices in health insurance, and is part of a system that costs more money per service delivered than even socialist models.

It is also undeniable that the more the insurer takes in, and the less it gives out, the more money it makes.  That is why insurers fight both doctors and consumers over the bills.  Combine that with a relative lack of competition (dealing with anything medical requires enormous amounts of capital), and you get soaring prices without a corresponding increase in service.

[De Selby]

Tommy,

I live with Government funded, socialist medicine right now.  My private insurance (which saves me a percent on income tax) and my private doctor visits come at prices that are not even close to what I had to pay in America for coverage that wasn't nearly as good.

If Government is the cause of high prices in medicine, how come the prices in socialist systems are so much lower?

[Monkeyleg]

If Government is the cause of high prices in medicine, how come the prices in socialist systems are so much lower?

You're either paying for it by other means (taxes on goods) or somone else who pays more in taxes is paying for your unpaid share.

The laws of economics have not been repealed. You don't get more for less. Despit what some in the US congress may say, Cuba does not have better health care than the US, although everyone is covered, so everyone is equally as miserable.

Why do I even bother arguing with De Selby, though? I could hit myself in the head with a hammer and accomplish more.

[De Selby]

You're either paying for it by other means (taxes on goods) or somone else who pays more in taxes is paying for your unpaid share.

The laws of economics have not been repealed. You don't get more for less. Despit what some in the US congress may say, Cuba does not have better health care than the US, although everyone is covered, so everyone is equally as miserable.

Why do I even bother arguing with De Selby, though? I could hit myself in the head with a hammer and accomplish more.

Well, the numbers are available for total per capita expenditure on health care, and for services delivered.  

It is sometimes true that you pay more for less - for example, I would have to pay about five times as much for an Omega watch here at a local jeweller over what I'd pay in Los Angeles.  That's for the same watch.  

Now it's true that Cuba doesn't have better health care, but we need not look at third world countries for a model.  England, most of Europe, Australia, and Canada all have comparable medical systems and those systems cost far, far less money per person, in total.

How is that possible, if Government makes health care more expensive?

[Monkeyleg]

Bang.

Ouch.

Bang.

Ouch.

Bang.

Ouch.

Ahhhhhh.

[AZRedhawk44]

How is that possible, if Government makes health care more expensive?

Then why does McDonald's need a waiver?   

[sanglant]

government started the downward spiral.(that's quality and value) they have no desire to end it, all they want is total control over who is receiving what care. if your up close you can smell it, but in order to see it you have to back up and do some reading about the start of the medicare train.

[TommyGunn]

Well, the numbers are available for total per capita expenditure on health care, and for services delivered.  

It is sometimes true that you pay more for less - for example, I would have to pay about five times as much for an Omega watch here at a local jeweller over what I'd pay in Los Angeles.  That's for the same watch.  

Now it's true that Cuba doesn't have better health care, but we need not look at third world countries for a model.  England, most of Europe, Australia, and Canada all have comparable medical systems and those systems cost far, far less money per person, in total.

How is that possible, if Government makes health care more expensive?

By balancing the budgets on the backs of the patients.

My parents lived in Scotland for three years so PLEASE don't tell me how GREAT socialistic health care is.  My parents knew people who waited for YEARS to get surgery and had to live with painful conditions that long.
My mother has glaucoma.  You know how they tested her for it?  never mind you would not believe me and I won't even try.
The ambulances where my parents lived were panel trucks with cots in the rear.  No paramedics, no heart monitors, heart resuscitators .... nothing.
Oh, wait. That's not right.
They had 1 bandaid. 
Health care there is rationed, THAT'S how they do it.  And as stated, the taxes are much higher.
Anyone REALLY think you can regulate health insurers cover "pre-existing" conditions and it ISN'T going to cost
TANSTAAFL
There
Ain't
No
Such
Thing
As
A
Free
Lunch

Look at all the other government programs and how they've gone bazillions over budget and underperformed, then get back to me when you think we can have government mandated / controlled healthcare and it not go down that very same road. 
Don't prattle to me about how some country like Indonesia or Switzerland does it and creates free wonderdrugs and cures virulent cancers with magic wands.   I don't care.
We are not them.
The history of government efficiency is there is you're smart enough to learn from it. 
If not then be prepared to doom yourself by repeating it's mistakes.


As I said .... have fun. 

[Perd Hapley]

I'm sorry, Tom, but it takes a much bigger font than that to impress me.

[TommyGunn]

I'm sorry, Tom, but it takes a much bigger font than that to impress me.

Really?

[Monkeyleg]

This is a family forum. We don't compare fonts here.

[sanglant]

GG control mouse-wheel-up.

[HeroHog]

I am 53, have severe back and knee issues on top of Arthritis, Degenerative Disk Disease and Degenerative Joint Disease, can't function because of the constant pain which makes me unemployable. ALL I have is the Veterans Administration for my health care and I am having to fight for my Social Security because my health issues don't match their little check boxes exactly. I am in deep fear for my future. I see a lot of pain and suffering then death before me right now. How is that for a future at just barely over 50 years of age?

[De Selby]

I am 53, have severe back and knee issues on top of Arthritis, Degenerative Disk Disease and Degenerative Joint Disease, can't function because of the constant pain which makes me unemployable. ALL I have is the Veterans Administration for my health care and I am having to fight for my Social Security because my health issues don't match their little check boxes exactly. I am in deep fear for my future. I see a lot of pain and suffering then death before me right now. How is that for a future at just barely over 50 years of age?

This is one of the reasons they socialized medicine here in Australia - along with trade unionism.  The trade unions wanted something that wouldn't go bankrupt, and the voting population here won't countenance the sick and the old going without care because they can't afford it.

Tommy, I live in socialized medicine right now.  As far as available statistics show, the level of care here is equivalent to America.  There are some specific areas where America does better, and some where it does worse.  On the whole, measures of outcomes do not demonstrate that health care is any worse in Australia.

There is one measure that's much different, which is cost: Australia spent about $4900 per person in FY 08 on health expense.  That's the total amount of GDP given to the system - Government, private, etc.   The United States spent about $7400.  When you consider that the outcomes aren't demonstrably better, you have to wonder what exactly we're getting for the extra $2500.

There's always lots of dismissing, "it's the Government!", etc in these threads, but I've yet to see someone post numbers that rate the US healthcare system as, overall anything but more expensive than competitors. 

[AZRedhawk44]

There's always lots of dismissing, "it's the Government!", etc in these threads, but I've yet to see someone post numbers that rate the US healthcare system as, overall anything but more expensive than competitors. 

1.  American free-market medicine subsidizes pharmaceutical development that the rest of the world doesn't pay for.  When a new medicine takes 10 years to research, test, produce and bring to market and the rest of the world wants to pay only $10 a bottle for it, it isn't economically feasible.  That's part of why our health care in the States is more expensive than abroad: artificial caps on the cost of prescription drugs.  If the US ever went to a similar system then there would be NO place to recoup the costs of prescription drug development and medicine would effectively come to a screeching halt.

Australia, Canada, Mexico, Britain, and the EU have price controls on medicine.  That doesn't leave a lot of western markets to charge a price that actually recoups the cost of R&D.

2.  Our health care system is more expensive because it is FASTER. 

[MicroBalrog]

I have witnessed socialized health care. My back pain is its own socialized health care horror story.