Post by: Balog on February 04, 2008, 05:57:15 PM
I'm in the market for a new processor. Everything else seems fine; HD spins up etc. I'm in the process of moving and getting a new job so this is a bad time to be computer-less. I'm ok with getting it online, but I'm also looking at the local Fry's electronics just so I can get it over with.Before I was running a Pentium D 940 @ 3.2g on a crappy Mach Speed board. I believe this was mine, scroll down to near the bottom.
On ad at Fry's atm are: Athlon X2 BE-2300 w/ ECS mobo, Intel Core 2 duo E6750 w/ Asus mobo, and one that's not online, an Intel E6850 w/ an ECS 945 GCT M/1333 board. Not on sale but in the same price range are AMD A 64 X2 6000 and 6400 cpu's on a variety of Asus, Abit, and MSI boards.
Except the low power 2300 (which I can't find) the Intel 6750 and amd 6400 seem pretty close, but lag behind the 6850. However, I must admit to a lack of understanding over the significance of the benchmark ratings and I don't know anything about the respective motherboards. Can anyone give me some guidance here?
Post by: Bogie on February 04, 2008, 06:28:52 PM
You might try hunting down just a replacement motherboard and processor/fan dealirama...
Post by: Balog on February 04, 2008, 06:33:09 PM
You are aware that your hard drive likely isn't gonna wanna party with a new computer, except as a #2 drive?
I was planning on totally reformatting it when I put in the new cpu and motherboard. Why wouldn't that work?
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You might try hunting down just a replacement motherboard and processor/fan dealirama...
Ummm, that's what I'm trying to do. The purpose of the OP was to solicit advice on what processor and motherboard I should buy.
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on February 04, 2008, 06:53:40 PM
What exactly caused your old rig to go kablooey? Whatever fried your old mobo may have also damaged the other components in the machine, especially that hard drive you want to reuse.
Definitely consider replacing the hard drive while you're at it. It sounds like you can't risk having any flakey parts in your machine right now.
Post by: Bogie on February 04, 2008, 07:00:51 PM
Sigh.
Post by: Balog on February 04, 2008, 07:03:14 PM
That being said tm, I would like to move to either a larger HD or ideally a raid array. But that's gotta wait til a bit later.
Post by: RocketMan on February 04, 2008, 07:39:58 PM
Their price is pretty good, too.
Post by: AmbulanceDriver on February 04, 2008, 07:52:43 PM
Post by: Bogie on February 04, 2008, 09:58:36 PM
Some of the motherboards offer built-in RAID. Cute. You want an on-card controller, or something you're plugging into via something like an SATA or Fi... oh, heck, I'm feeling southern... Farwar connection. Or USB 2, but it damn well better STAY USB 2... Of course, there's always a nice fast network adapter, and network attached storage. I'm running about 3 terrabytes now, and my next investment is gonna be RAID5...
Post by: Balog on February 05, 2008, 03:51:50 AM
The problem is I can't really put a quantitative measure to those numbers. Is a couple hundred a big improvement in performance? Are AMD really that much slower, and if so do they offer any kind of other positives I'm not aware of?
Also, on motherboards.... ECS, Asus, Abit, MSI..... what's the difference? Are they all roughly comparable? Any I should avoid?
Post by: RocketMan on February 05, 2008, 04:49:26 AM
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Also, on motherboards.... ECS, Asus, Abit, MSI..... what's the difference? Are they all roughly comparable? Any I should avoid?
Most of those motherboards have good reputations. ECS had quality issues in the recent past that disturbed me, because at one time they were one of my favorite manufacturers. Hopefully they have gotten them straightened out.
Check out some of the user reviews at Newegg.com. Many are written by average folks, not uber geeks. They can be quite valuable in helping you make a decision.
Post by: Firethorn on February 05, 2008, 05:23:43 AM
The problem is I can't really put a quantitative measure to those numbers. Is a couple hundred a big improvement in performance? Are AMD really that much slower, and if so do they offer any kind of other positives I'm not aware of?
Man, it took me forever to find the CPUs you were talking about!
6850: 1748
6750: 1488
AMD x2 6400: 1306
The best way to look at this is percentage: the 6850 will be 17% faster than the 6750, and the 6750 will be 14% faster than the AMD chip. The 6850 will be a third faster(34%) than the AMD chip. In any case, perusing the site shows that you're looking at the bottom end of the pack, considering that they have the X5472 on the top of the chart with a score of 9,776!
Now, consider the score like the horsepower of a car - more horsepower means more speed, but doubling the HP doesn't necessarily equal double the speed. In a computer, not only do you have CPU speed, you also have amount and speed of the RAM, HD seek and throughput rate, how much cruft your particular software enviroment has, etc...
CPU speed is still important, so I generally attribute it 50% of a computers performance - thus a 14% difference becomes a 7% difference in real world performance perceptable to a human. Humans can't really notice anything under 10% on average. So you'd probably notice the difference between the 6850 and the AMD, but not the difference between the 6750 and either the 6850 or the AMD. You'll easily notice the speed difference between your old CPU(857), but it won't be twice as fast. Especially if you keep the old HD, as newer larger capacity drives tend to be faster.
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Also, on motherboards.... ECS, Asus, Abit, MSI..... what's the difference? Are they all roughly comparable? Any I should avoid?
I've generally had few problems with the boards, but then, I don't buy enough of them to really have a brand preference. More important would be the chipset and what you intend to do with it. If you intend on overclocking the CPU/Video Card/Memory you're going to want a different(more expensive) board.
Post by: Sergeant Bob on February 05, 2008, 06:10:40 AM
Can anyone help me understand the significance of the benchmarks on here? The 6750 is 260 behind the 6850 but 170 ahead of the AMD x2 6400.
The problem is I can't really put a quantitative measure to those numbers. Is a couple hundred a big improvement in performance? Are AMD really that much slower, and if so do they offer any kind of other positives I'm not aware of?
Also, on motherboards.... ECS, Asus, Abit, MSI..... what's the difference? Are they all roughly comparable? Any I should avoid?
The problem is I can't really put a quantitative measure to those numbers. Is a couple hundred a big improvement in performance? Are AMD really that much slower, and if so do they offer any kind of other positives I'm not aware of?
Also, on motherboards.... ECS, Asus, Abit, MSI..... what's the difference? Are they all roughly comparable? Any I should avoid?
As for the 6400/6750/6850 comparison, the higher the number the better, although 200 or 260 points is not all that significant. If you can get the faster processor for very little extra money, go for it. That said, you can't really go wrong with any of them.
I'm not real up to date on the particular motherboards but, for most people, any of those will work fine. You might want to do a quick search for reviews on the particular mobo's you're interested in.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on February 05, 2008, 07:26:06 AM
Do you know how to boot your 'puter in safe mode?
I'd suggest going with the same general class of processor as you had previously (if previously AMD, stay AMD) and the first thing you do when starting up the new system is to boot in safe mode.
Pull up your device manager and delete EVERYTHING from it. Reboot the computer.
Let XP (you're on XP, right?) redetect all the hardware. It'll take half a dozen reboots. At some point, it'll throw a hissy fit over the license since it thinks it's being pirated due to the different CPU/MoBo/NIC signatures it just detected. It will ask you to reregister online. If your XP license is legit, then do it. They may want you to call a number. I've done this several times, it isn't a big deal.
This will save you the time involved in reinstalling all your old applications, restoring backups of your favorites/cookies/documents/et.cet.
Post by: Bogie on February 05, 2008, 08:38:28 AM
On Top Gear last night, they had a modded Mercedes that had the traction control go bonkers every time you stepped on the gas... Looked like an ugly situation. If your hard drives, etc., can't keep up with the rest of the system, or you've got a video card that chokes stuff down, or you're using an OS that limits the RAM you can access...
Post by: Gewehr98 on February 05, 2008, 09:49:32 AM
Doesn't sound like the IBM corporate machine you got earlier, and if I remember correctly, the former had been flaky from the get-go...
Post by: Balog on February 05, 2008, 03:14:07 PM
Balog, was that the kit computer you got from TigerDirect?
Doesn't sound like the IBM corporate machine you got earlier, and if I remember correctly, the former had been flaky from the get-go...
Doesn't sound like the IBM corporate machine you got earlier, and if I remember correctly, the former had been flaky from the get-go...
Yeah, that's the one. It was connected properly at first, I know that. I guess when I had to reinstall the motherboard about 10 times because of the effing grounding issues it wasn't done properly. My own damn fault.
Man, it took me forever to find the CPUs you were talking about!
Uhh, I put links to each processor in there; just did it so you'd only have to click on the name in the thread.
Post by: InfidelSerf on February 05, 2008, 07:18:47 PM
Keeping in mind both had RMA's The ECSes I would RMA roughly 4out of 10 boards.. Most Asus I would RMA 1 out of 10 boards.
That said ECS made several boards that were solid as a rock assuming you got a good one.
Asus I tend to favor for MB's and Video cards. Regardless of CPU make.
JMHO
Post by: Paddy on February 05, 2008, 07:25:45 PM
Second, unless you've got an advanced EE degree, you're better off buying from someone who knows what the hell they're doing.
Hint: HP, Dell, Gateway, IBM, etc.
Post by: Balog on February 05, 2008, 07:30:59 PM
First, shopping at Fry's is really stupid, given that half their inventory is re-stocked (previously sold and returned) items.
Really? Anyone have any kinda proof of this? The stuff I looked at was in fresh shiny new boxes.
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Second, unless you've got an advanced EE degree, you're better off buying from someone who knows what the hell they're doing.
Hint: HP, Dell, Gateway, IBM, etc.
Hint: HP, Dell, Gateway, IBM, etc.
Ah, that "can do" American attitude. No wonder the boomers are so great!
Hint; I've got everything already cept the cpu and board; I'm not gonna spend x4 what I need to on a whole new system. Too busy paying for your beer with my taxes.
Post by: Paddy on February 05, 2008, 07:38:41 PM
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Too busy paying for your beer VO and Absolut with my taxes.
Yeah, well, thanks.
Post by: Calumus on February 05, 2008, 07:48:06 PM
Shawn
Post by: roo_ster on February 06, 2008, 03:46:57 AM
First, shopping at Fry's is really stupid, given that half their inventory is re-stocked (previously sold and returned) items.
Second, unless you've got an advanced EE degree, you're better off buying from someone who knows what the hell they're doing.
Hint: HP, Dell, Gateway, IBM, etc.
Second, unless you've got an advanced EE degree, you're better off buying from someone who knows what the hell they're doing.
Hint: HP, Dell, Gateway, IBM, etc.
Riley's first contention is not true for the three Fry's in the DFW area. The relatively few items that are returns/restocked are clearly marked with a ~10% discount. I usually buy them, and have not had a problem yet.
Riley's second contention is true only in that the employees at Fry's are not that knowledgeable, IME. It is best to know something about what you want. Microcenter, OTOH, has relatively knowledgeable employees. If someone local needs PC hardware, I send them to Microcenter, 9/10 times.
Post by: Balog on February 06, 2008, 03:39:24 PM
Would you be comfortable overclocking a cpu?
Shawn
Shawn
You're asking the guy who blew his old processor up if he wants to overclock?
I like your moxey kid. 
Seriously tho, I want a system running stably; then I'll worry about upping the go-fastness.Speaking of Fry's..... Intel Core 2 quad Q6600 and ECS G31T-M for $289. Whatta ya'll think?
Post by: RocketMan on February 06, 2008, 04:52:30 PM
Speaking of Fry's..... Intel Core 2 quad Q6600 and ECS G31T-M for $289. Whatta ya'll think?
There are only seven user reviews for that motherboard on Newegg's website, but they are mostly positive. It sounds like a good general purpose motherboard. Were it me, I'd give it a try at that price.
The Q6600 is a great CPU. I have one in a video editing machine I built. Used an ASUS motherboard in that one.
Post by: Calumus on February 06, 2008, 05:30:57 PM
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/1208/ecs_g31t_m_intel_core_2_on_a_budget/index.html
These guys are pretty good with their reviews. I had a couple of questions about the rest of the system. I assume you were already running ddr2 correct? If so then perfect, you can reuse the stuff you already had. If not I'd highly recommend SuperTalent (I know, sounds chintzy but its the best bang for the buck out there and its actually made domesticly) http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=T8UX2GC5&show=p
If you need to get everything at Frys then try this http://shop1.outpost.com/product/4960001?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
I'm going to assume that the cpu is an oem version. That means you'll probably need a heatsink and fan unless you're able to reuse your old one. Once again, if everything's coming from Fry's try this http://shop1.outpost.com/product/4849620?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
Otherwise I'd recommend this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185038
That's what I'm running. Not using the fan either, and still idling around 32 celcius. Any more questions, fire away. Cheers,
Shawn
Post by: Balog on February 07, 2008, 12:42:28 PM
I was using this fan.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-detailsInactive.asp?EdpNo=1187029
Should I reinstall it on the new cpu, or go with the fan that's included with the processor?
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on February 07, 2008, 02:07:54 PM
Post by: Sergeant Bob on February 07, 2008, 02:29:40 PM
Well, I went ahead and got the 6600. Preparing to install it tonight. One question tho.
I was using this fan.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-detailsInactive.asp?EdpNo=1187029
Should I reinstall it on the new cpu, or go with the fan that's included with the processor?
I was using this fan.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-detailsInactive.asp?EdpNo=1187029
Should I reinstall it on the new cpu, or go with the fan that's included with the processor?
I'd just go with the one they sent with it. I'm sure it will work fine. I used to try to get the best cooler I could get and it usually ended up being noisier as well as cooler.
I got a new board and AM2 processor and I just put the retail cooler on it. I didn't even use Arctic Silver or any other such paste on it, just used the Thermal Interface Material that came on the heat sink. It's a lot quieter than it used to be and I've had no problem with it getting hot at all.
Post by: Balog on February 07, 2008, 04:38:11 PM
I should've done it already, but damn.... after the last time I'm a bit nervous.
Post by: Sergeant Bob on February 07, 2008, 05:29:48 PM
I bought some silver thermal paste and canned air. I'll try it with the stock fan and see how it goes.
I should've done it already, but damn.... after the last time I'm a bit nervous.
I should've done it already, but damn.... after the last time I'm a bit nervous.
If you're nervous, just use the stock pad on the bottom of the heat sink. Make sure you peel off the protective plastic layer before you install it though!
If you do use the silver, make sure you don't use too much. Most of it's conductive so any excess might drip when it gets hot and could short something out.
Some people like to put a dab on and spread it with a single edged razor blade, using it like a scraper to ensure only a minimal amount is left on the processor.
What I like to do is take a piece of saran wrap" and stretch it tight over the end of my finger and spread it on. Then I take the heat sink and set it on the cpu and wiggle it a bit, then take it off and check the coverage. Then either wipe some off (using my saran wrapped" finger) or put a bit more on if necessary.
If it has the same sort of latching mechanism as the AM2", it is simply a lever you just latch down until it locks. Pretty much fool proof. Not a lot of danger of chipping or installing it improperly.
Once you do it successfully you're going to be surprised how easy it really is.
Post by: Balog on February 07, 2008, 06:46:47 PM
And when the result of the last time you put something together was that something self-destructed, well......
Post by: Balog on February 12, 2008, 05:08:45 PM
Post by: RocketMan on February 12, 2008, 06:04:02 PM
Got the Q6600 and board from Fry's. Install everything, using stock fan. Plug it in and let 'er rip. Fan spins, drive opens and closes, LED's on the case glow, and on the monitor..... nothing. Just says "Invalid sync" like it used to when I turned it on with the computer off. D'oh!
Question 1: Does your motherboard have on-board video?
Question 2: Does your system have a stand-alone video card?
If the answer to question one is "Yes" and question 2 is "No", make sure your on-board video is enabled in the BIOS setup.
If the answer to question 1 is "Yes" and question 2 is also "Yes", then disable the on-board video in BIOS. (There are some situations where you would leave it enabled, however, but this is not one of them.)
If the answer to question 1 is "No" and question 2 is "Yes", then you might try reseating the video card. Whether it is in an AGP slot or a PCIe slot, they can sometimes be inserted a little off and not work. When that happens, it usually does not harm the video card. Just reseat it, being careful in how you put it in its slot, and try again.
If the answer to question 1 is "No" and question 2 is "Yes", and the steps in the above paragraph don't work, then you may have a toasted video card.
Post by: RevDisk on February 12, 2008, 06:21:03 PM
Got the Q6600 and board from Fry's. Install everything, using stock fan. Plug it in and let 'er rip. Fan spins, drive opens and closes, LED's on the case glow, and on the monitor..... nothing. Just says "Invalid sync" like it used to when I turned it on with the computer off. D'oh!
Video card on the way tomorrow. I have a stack of them, so no biggie. I'll toss in an older PC. Nothing fancy, but functioning. If I'm feeling malicious, I'll send ya a pallet of CRT's too.
Post by: roo_ster on February 13, 2008, 03:26:19 AM
Got the Q6600 and board from Fry's. Install everything, using stock fan. Plug it in and let 'er rip. Fan spins, drive opens and closes, LED's on the case glow, and on the monitor..... nothing. Just says "Invalid sync" like it used to when I turned it on with the computer off. D'oh!
Video card on the way tomorrow. I have a stack of them, so no biggie. I'll toss in an older PC. Nothing fancy, but functioning. If I'm feeling malicious, I'll send ya a pallet of CRT's too.
Keep yer pallets of CRTs away from me & mine! I just donated my last 21" Dell flat CRT to the Salvation Army...'cause nobody wanted the boat anchor, awesome picture or not. It sure kept the room warm in winter....
Post by: Brad Johnson on February 13, 2008, 09:48:52 AM
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I just donated my last 21" Dell flat CRT to the Salvation Army...'cause nobody wanted the boat anchor, awesome picture or not.
Awwww, man. Why couldn't you have lived around here. I woulda bought you a hamburger for it.
Brad
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on February 15, 2008, 10:22:36 AM
I was running:
Asus M2V series motherboard (can't remember the exact model)
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800
2GB 800mhz RAM 5-5-5-15 timing
ATI Radeon 1600XT PCI-E video
Windows XP 64bit
Moving to:
Gigabyte ga-m68sm motherboard
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000
4GB 800mhz RAM 4-4-4-12 timing
NVidia GT8600 PCI-E video
Windows XP 64bit
I'll probably up the ram to 6-8GB in a month or so... I run Virtual Servers of the latest software for training and evaluation purposes, (Windows 2008 server, SQL 2008, etc) so I use a lot of ram on my machine. The motherboard I went with supports up to 16GB.