Punk foulup stupid kids, or something else?

[grislyatoms]

Last summer, say early August, I happened to be in my apt. complex's swimming pool with my daughter. As usual, she had brought her collection of pool toys (dive stick, swim goggles, a couple of balls).

We had been there about two hours when two late-teen-early-twenty something girls show up with a little girl of about 4-5 and an early twenties male.

They did not have a key to get into the pool so I had my daughter hop out and let them in. They didn't thank my daughter for letting them in, they just walked on in. Oh, well.

A few minutes later I realized just about every word out of their mouths was filth. "Yeah that motherbleep is a real motherbleep. Sheeit! You don't know sheeit. He da bomb!

Blah blah blah. On and on.

There were lots of little kids around.

I was getting pretty angry. My daughter could tell, too. She said "Dad, I want to go home." Since we had been there for quite awhile already, I decided to call it a day rather than make a scene. Told my daughter to gather up her toys. Lo and behold, we could only find one ball. All her other stuff was missing. I walked around the pool several times, no toys.

Suspicion began to creep up on me. The trashmouths had probably taken her toys. I knew if I confronted them right then and there they would deny it. I started getting more angry.

We left the pool, my daughter was crying about her toys. I told her we would go run down to the store and get replacements. The main reason I told her that was so I could drive by the pool and see if any of her toys had magically reappeared.

So we drive by and sure enough, one of the trashmouth girls was wearing her swim goggles. I blew a gasket.

I pulled over and stormed into the pool area.

Me: "Take those off and hand them over. They do not belong to you."
Trashmouth girl1: "What!? We just found them."
Me: "Sure you did. Hand them over."

At this point I noticed Trashmouth girl2 attempting to cover up something with her towel. My daughter's other ball fell out from under the towel. Gasket #2 blew.

Me: "Hey how about that, my daughter's toys are just popping up all over the place. Any idea how that happened?"
Trashmouth girl2: "...."
Me: "Don't have much to say now, do you? Where's all the salty language I heard earlier?"
Trashmouth girl2: "...."

At this point, the young man who was with them started to get up and walk towards me. I said "You got anything to say?"

"Nope."

"Then SIT down."

He sat down.

Lecture time.

Me: "I can tolerate foul language. I get really upset when folks use it around little kids, though. Is that your little sister? You talk like that around your little sister? What the **** are you guys thinking? Does it make you proud to steal a 7 year old girl's pool toys?"

Trashmouth girl2: "......"
Trashmouth boy: "......."
Trashmouth girl1: "We just found them."

Me: "OH BULLSHIT! I am not stupid"

I left then. I couldn't think of anything else to say.

Turns out, the trashmouths live right across the courtyard from me. They drive beat up old crappy cars, and they always have parking tickets and stickers on them from parking illegally. (Usually in the fire lane) My neighbor whose bedroom window looks out into the courtyard says that people are coming and going from there all hours of the night.

My other neighbor says they watched him bring in a new tv. The next day, there was evidence that someone tried to jimmy his front door.

One other neighbor says that one of them told him he was a Crip. (Presumably trashmouthboy)

So what is this all leading up to?

Friday when I returned home from work, two guys ('do rags, wraparound shades, typical tough guy look) and trashmouthgirl1 were standing out on the sidewalk on my side of the street. I got out and went around to the passenger side to get out my groceries.

As I was lifting the groceries out, I heard one of the tough guys say, discreetly, "Dat da dude?" Trashmouthgirl1 said "Dat's him."

I had to walk right past them. Trashmouthgirl1 said to them "Whatcha gonna do?"

I looked them all right dead in the eye, then turned my glance away as I passed. (I did have a .380 in my jacket pocket)

Haven't seen them again this weekend.

Now that all that is said I would request some advice/info.

1. Are these just punk foulup stupid kids (my belief), or something else?
2. ALL the neighbors mentioned above have complained about them yet management has done nothing.
3. One of their beat up crappy cars almost exactly matches a description on the news of a car that was involved in a drive by shooting. I called the Sheriff's office and reported the license number. Haven't heard anything back. (This was a couple months ago)
4. I have a hard time believing that one of them is a Crip. The gangs down in the city proper are overwhelmingly Hispanic; from what I understand of gang culture Crips would not be welcome anywhere near the city.
5. Why now? If they are still sore at me for the tongue lashing I gave them, why have they waited this long to start something?

Any advice, observations, comments? The apartments I live in are actually rather nice, and in a nice area.

Thanks for reading, I know it was pretty long.

     

 

[Lee]

I would 1) Keep a close eye on them 2) expect the worst from them 3) avoid initiating any contact with them 4) keep an open channel with the cops and report to the police any observed illegal activity - I would ask to talk to an officer in person 5) Keep a journal 6) be prepared to defend yourself and your family.

Teen aged wannabe gangbangers, who are trying to impress their latest squeeze, can be extremely dangerous. 

[Sergeant Bob]

I don't know what you can do about them but, if I were you I would do everything I could to get my daughter out of that environment. It doesn't sound like a very safe place to raise a child.

That would also take care of the other problem.

[mustanger98]

Well, two things come to my mind... my Grandpa always said you'll avoid a lot of trouble by not going certain places. My Daddy said if the situation turns bad, remove yourself from the area (IOW, leave). Sometimes leaving's not possible or practical. A question I just thought of is who lived there first; you or those kids? And where on the timeline did those kids move in in relation to your neighbors who told you more about them? I agree with keeping an open line of communication with the cops. I also agree with being ready to defend yourself and your family.

With regard to these two quotes...

Teen aged wannabe gangbangers, who are trying to impress their latest squeeze, can be extremely dangerous.

So what is this all leading up to?

Friday when I returned home from work, two guys ('do rags, wraparound shades, typical tough guy look) and trashmouthgirl1 were standing out on the sidewalk on my side of the street. I got out and went around to the passenger side to get out my groceries.

As I was lifting the groceries out, I heard one of the tough guys say, discreetly, "Dat da dude?" Trashmouthgirl1 said "Dat's him."

I had to walk right past them. Trashmouthgirl1 said to them "Whatcha gonna do?"

...people can be real notional. People can take a notion to like each other (as is not the case here), or they can take a notion to hate each other. If somebody took a notion to hate you for standing up for your kid, you don't know they won't take a notion to drive-by on you.

If I thought I was that threatened, I think I'd have something bigger than a .380 ready to go.

Whatever you decide, good luck.

[gunsmith]

upgrade to .40S&W.
Call the cops for every transgression.
Stand your ground.
Notify your landlord.
Practice your shooting skills.

I am from NYC, I grew up around skells like that, some are dangerous but most are idiots
who can neither fight or shoot.

Do not take any guff from them at all, you should have even called the cops when they stole you girls toys.
every single little transgression call the police.

It works for me, I would rather have the cops hassling punks like that then giving out speeding and parking tickets.

The more the cops are aware of them , the more paper trail of them being stupid, the better your case will be if you ever have to use your gun in self defense.

[grislyatoms]

I've just about got enough saved up for a down payment on a house. Moving right now would put a kink in those plans. Believe me, though, an immediate move is under consideration.

I haven't reported anything to the cops, because except for the first incident, frankly, they have left me alone. Until now. This last incident wasn't even a direct threat, I wonder what the cops would say. I will be speaking to a cop tomorrow, in any event. I am just gonna tell the whole story and see what they think.
Would it be wise to mention to the cops that I am armed, or should I just leave that out?

Speaking of being armed, I have an 870, a 1911, and the .380. (Sold off some stuff to fatten my down payment savings). So I am pretty well provided for defensively. The .380 just happens to be what I had on me at the time. The 1911 is going to start accompanying me now, the 870 will be close by while I am home.

I have been there the longest, in answer to mustanger. The punks are relative newcomers. All my other neighbors are great folks and have been there longer than the punks as well. The guy right across the breezeway is a Dept. of Corrections guy, though I don't know him very well.

Thanks for being a good sounding board folks. I wasn't seeing this as being as serious as it possibly is. I was ready to write it off to stupid kid dramatics. 

[Perd Hapley]

Something must be done to get through to management.  They may have to show something solid to break the lease, but these aren't the kind who sue, anyway.  Maybe call management and tell them you're talking to LE, and ask if they want to come?  That might get thier attention. 

[Monkeyleg]

If there's people coming and going all the time, you can presume that they're selling drugs.

Keep an eye on them and alert the police if you see anything that looks like drug dealing. Ask your neighbors to do the same.

[cosine]

I haven't reported anything to the cops, because except for the first incident, frankly, they have left me alone. Until now. This last incident wasn't even a direct threat, I wonder what the cops would say. I will be speaking to a cop tomorrow, in any event. I am just gonna tell the whole story and see what they think.
Would it be wise to mention to the cops that I am armed, or should I just leave that out?

I'd think you may want to report pretty much everything if you can, just to get a paper trail started (I'm parroting advice I've seen elsewhere...).

If I were you, I don't know if I'd want to mention that I'm armed however. Maybe I'm just getting jaded about cops as a result of reading L&P at THR.

[Warren]

Some people need a good thrashing and society would be much better off if you could... unfortunately that will get you into a lot of trouble.

Your best move is to document, video, and, when possible, get the hell out.

[Vodka7]

Punks like these move in packs so keep your gun hand free, even if it means two trips to bring in the groceries instead of one.  Really, though, if they didn't beat you down in the parking lot when you were alone and your hands were full, they've probably already forgotten you.  Not a good situation to raise a daughter, but it sounds like you're already well on your way to a house, so good luck and best wishes riding out the current situation.

[Perd Hapley]

I think they figured out you were not going to be intimidated, grisly.  May mean they'll stay out of your way.  May mean they'll bring some hardware next time they decide to mess with you. 

Be careful and God bless.

[richyoung]

I hate to sound morbid, but there is a child involved, so please take this in the spirit in which it is intended:

1.  Have your affairs in order - especially will, child custody, burial wishes.  Just in case.  Even if it means a little longer before you can buy a house.
2.  If possible get or increase life insurance on yourself.
3.  If car is nice, switch comprehensive coverage to SMALLEST deductible until you leave the situation, especially if you can't park in a controlled area.  You  might want to consider a tempory beater car if the situation escalates.
4.   Improve the locks on your doors from the contractor-grade junk that is probably installed, unless you have some other control on access to youe apartment.  Save the originals and re-install them when you move out - you can always re-use the good stuff on your new place.  You might even consider "T-bar"-ing the door like the druggies do.
5.  Carry all the time that you can, and ditto on keeping a hand free all the time.
6.  Cameras and recording media are cheap nowadays - if yu have or can get a view of their place or parking, tape 24 - 7.


Now for the fun part.....

I would * NEVER * counsel someone to do something even * MARAGINALLY * illegal, but WHAT IF:

1. Crip boy wakes up to find his car "tagged" with "Blood" symbols?
2.  Tires knifed in the SIDEWALL, unlike the tread, cannot be repaired - and roofing nails make good caltrops.
3.  Marbles in the gass tank will eventually drive someone insane.
4.  A potato in the tailpipe is a classic.  If it has a half-inch hole, the car will start and run, but won;t make much power, as it can't breath.  Of course, a really DEVIANT criminal mind will use a broom handle or such to push it WAY up in there...

[grislyatoms]

I am not going to do stuff that might possibly escalate things. (as much as I would LOVE to do some of the stuff Richyoung mentioned.)
I am going to go to the precinct down the road here after work and see what the cops think.

My front door is pretty solid, I believe it's oak or some other hardwood with a steel liner. Very tough and heavy. I also have a good dog; she will wake me up if she hears someone outside.

It's funny, as much as I love my 1911, I find myself right now REALLY wishing I had a high capacity double stack 9mm or .40. I am going to try to remember this feeling next time I go to the gun shop.

I am off work for the next three days so I'll have some time to consider my next move.

Thanks for all the responses and well wishes. I'll give y'all an update on Friday.

[Perd Hapley]

It's funny, as much as I love my 1911, I find myself right now REALLY wishing I had a high capacity double stack 9mm or .40.

Or just carry both guns.  Maybe a New York reload would be better than having one gun with a lot of rounds. 

[Ron]

It's funny, as much as I love my 1911, I find myself right now REALLY wishing I had a high capacity double stack 9mm or .40. I am going to try to remember this feeling next time I go to the gun shop.

Statistically you probably wouldn't even need all the rounds in a 1911.

If you want more rounds an XD 45 gives you 14 in 45 

[CAnnoneer]

I would not have let them in the pool. If they don't have a key for it, there must be a reason. If they protest, calmly explain they should have a key.

I would not have confronted dirtbags like that over a few squishy toys that can be replaced for less than 20 bucks. Lawsuits and injury would be far more expensive. If you do want to engage, call the cops on them - petty larceny is still a crime. Finally, in our perverse pinkoliberal culture, being a gunowner puts extra expectation for you to be non-confrontational. Otherwise, they might claim you "went their armed and looking for trouble". If you are paler than them and a man vs women, you get extra penalties. Don't dig yourself a hole.

Watch out for the hoes. As you saw yourself, it is the bitches that egg the idiots on and get them in trouble. If they had a bit more guts, those two probably would have jumped you just to impress the provoking ho.

It is good to be armed, but don't overestimate the added protection. Many things can happen before you have the time to see the danger, draw your weapon, shout a warning, give them "reasonable" (??) time to respond to it, shoot, ascertain effect, shoot again, etc. etc. Don't hang your hat on that.

IMO a single-stack weapon is not optimal for such defensive situations. Less than 10 bullets for 3 or more assailants in close quarters under surprise is not enough. Due to its size, 1911 will be difficult to draw fast as well. Count on needing multiple hits for each opponent, without reload, and accounting for potential misses and ineffective hits. Also, I do not think normal people can count on having enough time to reload. When it happens, it is very fast and none of us are J. Miculek.

[richyoung]

Hit the first 2 and see how much less  motivated the third is.  Carried with one up the spout and at least an 8 round mag (aren't 10 rounders available?), I wouldn't feel like I didn;t have enough gun.  Plus 1911's are MADE for pistol-whipping....

[tokugawa]

Take the financial hit and move now. Your daughter deserves it.  And who is to say where the bullets fly? She may be with you when it goes down.

  Is she secure at home and in her travels? Bus stop? Etc?

  And do not escalate with chicken *expletive deleted*it tire slitting or any other such idiocy. This is not a game.

  People like this are dangerous because they are stupid, and have too much time on thier hands. Sitting around, getting F**ked up, "hey, cuz, lets go F**k with the a-hole cross the street.." 
 
  Society has traditionally dealt with this sort by letting them starve cause they won't work, or hanging them when they take from others. Unfortunately, neither method  is practiced anymore.

[Matthew Carberry]

You forgot horsewhipping them out of town, riding them out on a rail and the old chestnut, tarring and feathering.

I am not against any of those methods when applied in a lawful framework.

[Antibubba]

2. ALL the neighbors mentioned above have complained about them yet management has done nothing.

You might approach one of the local news stations with an idea for a story about crime conditions in a certain local neighborhood.  I'm pretty sure the building owners don't want the place to be thought a tenement or Crackville.

[Perd Hapley]

Antibubba, you play dirty, you bad man.

[grislyatoms]

Well, the cop I talked to didn't have a whole lot to say.

He asked me why I took it on myself to challenge them (which is not what I intended to do at first), and told me to leave that kind of stuff to them. No matter how petty or silly. He also said, as others here have said, to document everything. He seemed disinterested about the late night comings and goings, which surprised me. (And again, I haven't actually seen that, just what my neighbors have said, maybe that's why)

On a brighter note, a mutual friend put me in touch with a realtor who does a lot of home rentals. She's got a client she believes may want to lease and then eventually sell. I don't know if it's just lip service or the real deal, but I am going to light a fire under it, anyway.
It sounds promising.

I'm gonna start getting ready to move (I just hope I don't end up next door to another bunch of pricks). Thanks for all the advice, folks.

P.S. I have seen the trashmouth folks a couple more times, they have left me alone.

[Perd Hapley]

Glad to see you're OK.

[Declaration Day]

I can understand why the cop seemed disinterested in the frequent late night visitors.  He has to work within the law and seeing many visitors coming and going isn't viable evidence of any sort of crime.  It's frustrating, I know.  I had a similar situation with my neighbors at my last house.