Death row inmate: I'm too fat to execute

[wmenorr67]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/04/death.penalty.fat.ap/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- A death row inmate scheduled for execution says he's too fat to be put to death, claiming executioners would have trouble finding his veins and that his weight could diminish the effectiveness of one of the lethal injection drugs.=

Death row inmate Richard Cooey says executioners would have trouble finding his veins to lethally inject him.

Lawyers for Richard Cooey argue in a federal lawsuit that Cooey -- 5-feet-7 and 267 pounds -- had poor veins when he faced execution five years ago and the problem has been worsened by weight gain.

The lawsuit, filed Friday in federal court, also says prison officials have had difficulty drawing blood from Cooey for medical procedures.

Cooey, 41, is sentenced to die for raping and murdering two young women in 1986. His execution is scheduled for October 14.

His attorneys say a drug he is taking for migraine headaches could affect the execution process. The drug Topamax, a type of seizure medication, may have created a resistance to thiopental, the drug used to put inmates to sleep before two other lethal drugs are administered, Dr. Mark Heath, a physician hired by the Ohio Public Defender's Office, said in documents filed with the court.

Heath says Cooey's weight, combined with the potential drug resistance, increases the risk he would not be properly anesthetized.

"All of the experts agree if the first drug doesn't work, the execution is going to be excruciating," Cooey's public defender, Kelly Culshaw Schneider, said Monday.

Prison system spokeswoman Andrea Carson and Jim Gravelle, a spokesman for the Ohio Attorney General's Office, both said Monday they hadn't seen the lawsuit and couldn't comment.

Last year, Carson cited the obesity of condemned inmate Christopher Newton as one of the reasons prison officials had difficulty accessing his veins before his execution. Newton was 6 feet tall and weighed 265 pounds.

Two years ago, convicted killer Jeffrey Lundgren was put to death after a federal appeals court rejected his claim that he was at greater risk of experiencing pain and suffering because he was overweight and diabetic.

So would it be too bad to starve him to death.

[seeker_two]

I definitely have him beat in the weight department....and all the physicians and nurses I've encountered didn't have any problem calculating proper dosage....

....besides, I don't think an overdose would matter much in this case.... 

[MechAg94]

Just put a plastic bag over his head.  Much cheaper than injections. 

I wondered why they don't just use a gas mask with pure nitrogen.  I have heard their is/was a general distaste for using "gas" of any kind though.  I guess overdosing on nitrous would work also.

[MicroBalrog]

So why can't we go back to the age-old practice of shooting them?

[MillCreek]

A very similar situation happened in Washington several years ago.  Mitchell Rupe, sentenced to hang for killing two bank tellers during a robbery in 1981, ate his way to 425 pounds in prison and then appealed his death sentence on the grounds he was too obese.  A Federal judge overturned the sentence since he might be decapitated during hanging, making his punishment cruel and unusual.  Washington offered to execute him via lethal injection, but since hanging was the only prescribed method when he was sentenced, the court rejected this.

At a subsequent retrial, the jury could not reach the unanimous finding on the death penalty so he was sentenced to life in prison without parole.  He then went on to develop Hepatitis C and was being worked up for a liver transplant at the UW.  This caused a firestorm of controversy that a lifer would be getting a scarce liver all paid for by the state.  As we will recall, by numerous court rulings, prisoners have a constitutionally-protected right to receive health care.  He did not receive the liver transplant and died in prison back in 2006. 

[alex_trebek]

Just put a plastic bag over his head.  Much cheaper than injections. 

I wondered why they don't just use a gas mask with pure nitrogen.  I have heard their is/was a general distaste for using "gas" of any kind though.  I guess overdosing on nitrous would work also.

Actually I saw a show about executions on the history channel this weekend.  You are right about the distaste for gas chambers, but it happened because of the holocaust.  WWII ended at about the time they started trying gas chambers for executions.  The claim was that a gas chamber was more humane, and quicker than the chair.  However, since Hitler used gas chambers to murder holocaust victims, there was a public distaste for the method.  Also, at first they tried cyanide gas.  The method they used took longer, and no one liked watching someone gasp for breath (as it was biological nature to hold one's breath as long as possible, apparently everyone does it).  I found the show interesting, needless to say.

I think the firing squad is probably one of more humane choices, besides lethal injection.  I think most states should have the squad as a backup  That way if some yahoo like this claims lethal injection won't work, give the firing squad.

[Ben]

I think the firing squad is probably one of more humane choices, besides lethal injection.

I really don't know much about firing squad procedure, but I'm assuming they always go for torso shots? I've always thought a bullet to the back of the head would be much quicker and more merciful, but I suppose the mess it leaves might be a reason it's never been used outside of Third World countries?

[wmenorr67]

Could always behead him.

[AJ Dual]

I think the firing squad is probably one of more humane choices, besides lethal injection.

I really don't know much about firing squad procedure, but I'm assuming they always go for torso shots? I've always thought a bullet to the back of the head would be much quicker and more merciful, but I suppose the mess it leaves might be a reason it's never been used outside of Third World countries?

I don't think the mess is the big deal. I think it's the same thing as the negative associations the gas chamber has with the Nazis.

The shot to the back of the head, generally while kneeling in submission, even while it's arguably more certain and humane, has too much association with totalitarian regimes and the third-world, IMO. The pomp and circumstance of the traditional upright firing squad, with the condemned standing on their feet, facing the executioners somehow adds a facade of civility to the process, making it more palatable to democratic/western-civ mindset.

[Boomhauer]

I'll cheerfully go solve the problem with my .30-30...hell, I'll do it for FREE.

[alex_trebek]

I think the firing squad is probably one of more humane choices, besides lethal injection.

I really don't know much about firing squad procedure, but I'm assuming they always go for torso shots? I've always thought a bullet to the back of the head would be much quicker and more merciful, but I suppose the mess it leaves might be a reason it's never been used outside of Third World countries?

I don't think the mess is the big deal. I think it's the same thing as the negative associations the gas chamber has with the Nazis.

The shot to the back of the head, generally while kneeling in submission, even while it's arguably more certain and humane, has too much association with totalitarian regimes and the third-world, IMO. The pomp and circumstance of the traditional upright firing squad, with the condemned standing on their feet, facing the executioners somehow adds a facade of civility to the process, making it more palatable to democratic/western-civ mindset.

The history channel show on executions showed a old recording of a firing squad death.  It was about 5-6 guys with smgs or automatic rifles unloading on someone about 15 feet away.  The guy just dropped, no screaming, no convulsions, nothing.  Seemed better than breathing in HCN, or the electric chair, or even hanging (in most cases death wasn't instantaneous with hangings).

Another way I heard was 5-6 guys shooting one shot from a bolt action rifle aimed at the head of prisoner.  This way no one knew if their bullet actually killed the guy, or if their bullet simply shot a dead man.  It was for the mental health of the executioner IIRC. 

[MechAg94]

So why can't we go back to the age-old practice of shooting them?

By "age old", I assume you mean just the last few hundred years? 

[agricola]

So why can't we go back to the age-old practice of shooting them?

... and damage the planets fragile ecosystem further?  Use the natural alternative:

[MechAg94]

Just put a plastic bag over his head.  Much cheaper than injections. 

I wondered why they don't just use a gas mask with pure nitrogen.  I have heard their is/was a general distaste for using "gas" of any kind though.  I guess overdosing on nitrous would work also.

Actually I saw a show about executions on the history channel this weekend.  You are right about the distaste for gas chambers, but it happened because of the holocaust.  WWII ended at about the time they started trying gas chambers for executions.  The claim was that a gas chamber was more humane, and quicker than the chair.  However, since Hitler used gas chambers to murder holocaust victims, there was a public distaste for the method.  Also, at first they tried cyanide gas.  The method they used took longer, and no one liked watching someone gasp for breath (as it was biological nature to hold one's breath as long as possible, apparently everyone does it).  I found the show interesting, needless to say.

I think the firing squad is probably one of more humane choices, besides lethal injection.  I think most states should have the squad as a backup  That way if some yahoo like this claims lethal injection won't work, give the firing squad.

We probably saw the same show.  

You don't need "poison gas" or even a chamber at all.  Just hit them with a little nitrous oxide via an SCBA or breathing mask to put them out of it, then substitute the air supply for pure nitrogen (or use a mix and shut off the oxygen).  They will pass out almost immediately with no fight due to the nitrous and be officially dead within a few minutes.  With lethal injections, a sedative or something to render them unconscious is part of the dosage in Texas at least.  

I have worked in air separation plants and one of the big safety issues is inert atmospheres especially in confined spaces.  You are warned repeatedly that you may not even realize you are in a bad atmosphere before you get groggy or pass out.  I have heard that an almost pure nitrogen atmosphere will cause someone to pass out almost immediately.  It is also a common safety concern for anyone using breathing air bottles.  That is reason the idea occurred to me.  I haven't been sitting down dreaming of ways to kill people.  

[MechAg94]

So why can't we go back to the age-old practice of shooting them?

... and damage the planets fragile ecosystem further?  Use the natural alternative:

Yes, the CO2 neutral idea. 

I guess guillotines have a bad rap also. 

[The Annoyed Man]

I actually agree with the inmate in this case.  He should still be put to death, but via a different manner.  Old sparky still works pretty well regardless of weight.  Just to be sure though, let's crank it up a notch.

I weigh about the same as this guy, but I'd imagine his body fat percentage is probably higher than mine.  Nurses have a really difficult time getting a vein, and very often when they get a vein, it infiltrates.  That's more because I have poor veins than my weight.  In addition, doctors have remarked in the past that it takes very large amounts of the drugs they use for anesthesia to have a result on me.  My own father, a physician, was present one time during a colonoscopy and endoscopy that his partner performed on me.  They both were amazed at how much more diprovan it took to get me to go under as opposed to the average patient.  The same thing was told to me by a surgeon a few years ago when it came to general anesthesia, they were even worried at one point supposedly.

So there are two solutions.  They guy is going to die anyways right?  So either crank up the dosage of the drugs for him, or just use old sparky.

Actually, three if you count gassing him.  I don't know how many states still use that though because it's pretty dangerous for all involved.

[Boomhauer]

I guess guillotines have a bad rap also.

Surprisingly, France used the guillotine up until the '70s.

[The Annoyed Man]

I guess guillotines have a bad rap also.

Surprisingly, France used the guillotine up until the '70s.

1970's!?

[The Annoyed Man]

You know, now that I think about it.  Why couldn't they just use a different drug to put him under?

[wmenorr67]

My own father, a physician, was present one time during a colonoscopy and endoscopy that his partner performed on me.

That would creep me out just a little.  I actually could have went my life without knowing your dad watched this procedure on you.

[MechAg94]

Actually, three if you count gassing him.  I don't know how many states still use that though because it's pretty dangerous for all involved.

Gassing with inert atmosphere instead of poison can be perfectly safe if it is done right.  Little clip-on personal oxygen meters are $200 and wall mounted systems are $2K maybe $3K.  We wear a 3 gas meter whenever we go out into the plant (O2, CO, LEL).

I really don't like the idea of cyanide or other poison gases myself.  Nitrogen cylinders are not a terrorist weapon and they are commonly used all over.  A container of cyanide might be. 

[K Frame]

Last time France used the guillotine was in 1977.

[InfidelSerf]

Why not devise a completely automated "firing squad"?  That way you don't have to worry about the conscience of the human squad.
The scumbag dies quick and before he hears the gunshot he's dead. Win Win.
You could even have the clean up handled by one large automated piece of machinery much like that of a bowling alley

I still think one should have to experience and feel the pain and suffering they caused just prior to their death. 
A rapist should spend the night with Bubba, a rapist/murder gets an afternoon with Bubba and then an evening with the firing squad.

A child rapist should never be put to death, he should have to experience mornings, afternoons, and evenings with Bubba for the rest of his life.

JMHO

[K Frame]

Utah did the automated firing squad years ago, early 1920s, I believe.

[agricola]

Why not devise a completely automated "firing squad"?  That way you don't have to worry about the conscience of the human squad.
The scumbag dies quick and before he hears the gunshot he's dead. Win Win.
You could even have the clean up handled by one large automated piece of machinery much like that of a bowling alley

I still think one should have to experience and feel the pain and suffering they caused just prior to their death. 
A rapist should spend the night with Bubba, a rapist/murder gets an afternoon with Bubba and then an evening with the firing squad.

A child rapist should never be put to death, he should have to experience mornings, afternoons, and evenings with Bubba for the rest of his life.

JMHO

Must every debate here end with killer robots?