Author Topic: The Pot Place?  (Read 50866 times)

Grandpa Shooter

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The Pot Place?
« on: November 14, 2009, 09:57:18 AM »
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091114/ts_nm/us_oregon_potcafe
All I can say is HUH? ???

First U.S. marijuana cafe opens in Portland
Reuters


PORTLAND, Oregon (Reuters) – The United States' first marijuana cafe opened on Friday, posing an early test of the Obama administration's move to relax policing of medical use of the drug.

The Cannabis Cafe in Portland, Oregon, is the first to give certified medical marijuana users a place to get hold of the drug and smoke it -- as long as they are out of public view -- despite a federal ban.

"This club represents personal freedom, finally, for our members," said Madeline Martinez, Oregon's executive director of NORML, a group pushing for marijuana legalization.

"Our plans go beyond serving food and marijuana," said Martinez. "We hope to have classes, seminars, even a Cannabis Community College, based here to help people learn about growing and other uses for cannabis."

The cafe -- in a two-story building which formerly housed a speak-easy and adult erotic club Rumpspankers -- is technically a private club, but is open to any Oregon residents who are NORML members and hold an official medical marijuana card.

Members pay $25 per month to use the 100-person capacity cafe. They don't buy marijuana, but get it free over the counter from "budtenders". Open 10 a.m. to 10 p.m., it serves food but has no liquor license.

There are about 21,000 patients registered to use marijuana for medical purposes in Oregon. Doctors have prescribed marijuana for a host of illnesses, including Alzheimer's, diabetes, multiple sclerosis and Tourette's syndrome.

On opening day, reporters invited to the cafe could smell, but were not allowed to see, people smoking marijuana.

"I still run a coffee shop and events venue, just like I did before we converted it to the Cannabis Cafe, but now it will be cannabis-themed," said Eric Solomon, the owner of the cafe, who is looking forward to holding marijuana-themed weddings, film festivals and dances in the second-floor ballroom.

NO PROSECUTION

The creation of the cafe comes almost a month after the Obama administration told federal attorneys not to prosecute patients who use marijuana for medical reasons or dispensaries in states which have legalized them.

About a dozen states, including Oregon, followed California's 1996 move to adopt medical marijuana laws, allowing the drug to be cultivated and sold for medical use. A similar number have pending legislation or ballot measures planned.

Pot cafes, known as "coffee shops", are popular in the Dutch city of Amsterdam, where possession of small amounts of marijuana is legal. Portland's Cannabis Cafe is the first of its kind to open in the United States, according to NORML.

Growing, possessing, distributing and smoking marijuana are still illegal under U.S. federal law, which makes no distinction between medical and recreational use.

Federal and local law enforcement agencies did not return phone calls from Reuters on Friday seeking comment on the Portland cafe's operations.

"To have a place that is this open about its activities, where people can come together and smoke -- I say that's pretty amazing." said Tim Pate, a longtime NORML member, at the cafe.

Some locals are hoping it might even be good for business.

"I know some neighbors are pretty negative about this place opening up," said David Bell, who works at a boutique that shares space with the cafe. "But I'm withholding judgment. There's no precedent for it. We don't know what to expect. But it would great if it brought some customers into our store."

Ben

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2009, 10:29:34 AM »
Quote
"I know some neighbors are pretty negative about this place opening up," said David Bell, who works at a boutique that shares space with the cafe. "But I'm withholding judgment. There's no precedent for it. We don't know what to expect. But it would great if it brought some customers into our store."

If he was smart, he'd change his boutique to a Doritos store.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2009, 10:52:21 AM »
GS:
Perfectly legal.  Oregon has Medical Marijuana.  The feds have agreed to leave people alone that follow state law.  No biggie IMHO, but that's just me.
JD

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Grandpa Shooter

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2009, 11:27:00 AM »
GS:
Perfectly legal.  Oregon has Medical Marijuana.  The feds have agreed to leave people alone that follow state law.  No biggie IMHO, but that's just me.

JJ,

I posted it because it reveals an underlying process of moral and ethical decay this country is continuing to undergo.  I object strongly to legalizing any recreational drugs, but that's just me.

GS

Jamisjockey

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2009, 11:37:58 AM »
JJ,

I posted it because it reveals an underlying process of moral and ethical decay this country is continuing to undergo.  I object strongly to legalizing any recreational drugs, but that's just me.

GS

And I don't. 
I consider the increasing power, corruption and reach of Government to be moral decay.


We've been down this discussion route on the board more than once, and it has turned quite ugly more than once.

This one remains open with the caveat that any nastiness will be dealt with.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

MicroBalrog

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2009, 11:38:15 AM »
I'm sorry, what?

This is for medical use.

I'm a chronic pain sufferer.  Now, my pain responds at least partly to over-the-counter painkillers - but there are many people not as lucky as I am. I live constantly under the threat of of pain. I can be entirely okay one day, and then wake up at night because I feel as if I am being stabbed. I cannot even begin to imagine how horrible it would be if regular OTC stuff did not help.

Many people require opiates, even morphine, on a regular basis or they are not able to function as human beings. Even those who oppose the legalization of morphine for recreational use cannot oppose its use for these people.

I understand that you oppose the legalization of marijuana for personal use, but this is a different issue. I really don't see why the drug needs to be kept from people who need it for medical reasons. People who are genuinely in pain.

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RaspberrySurprise

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2009, 11:40:22 AM »
Sometimes liberty means people can do things that you don't like. What's important is does it harm you?
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Jamisjockey

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2009, 11:54:51 AM »
Sometimes liberty means people can do things that you don't like. What's important is does it harm you?

Amen.  Personally, I'm not a big fan of religion.  But I'd never stand in between someone and their religion. 
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

Doggy Daddy

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2009, 12:05:38 PM »
Amen.  Personally, I'm not a big fan of religion...(snipped) 

Great choice of words!   :laugh:

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Standing Wolf

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2009, 12:15:02 PM »
Quote
I object strongly to legalizing any recreational drugs, but that's just me.

Some people object to recreational firearms.
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tyme

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2009, 12:26:12 PM »
Quote from: Grandpa Shooter
I object strongly to legalizing any recreational drugs, but that's just me.

Do you object to alcohol being legal?
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Grandpa Shooter

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2009, 01:38:46 PM »
Amen.  Personally, I'm not a big fan of religion.  But I'd never stand in between someone and their religion. 

Are you alluding to the use of mind altering drugs in so called "religious" cults, and therefore condoning it?

Some people object to recreational firearms.

If someone's use of recreational firearms is in someway contributing to the decline in societal morals and ethics, Yes I do object them using them.  That would be on a case by case basis.  In the same way, if an individual has a licensed physician who makes such things as strong painkillers available to someone with a verifiable need for them I have no problem with it being a private matter.

Do you object to alcohol being legal?

That again falls under the issue of use or abuse.  You have a couple of beers sitting on your patio and stumble in to your bedroom, I could care less.  If you down some and get behind the wheel to go get even more, yup you bet I have a problem with it.


In the above posted story please note that the people of NORML are praising it as a great idea for a social club, not as a place attended by trained medical personnel.

"This club represents personal freedom, finally, for our members," said Madeline Martinez, Oregon's executive director of NORML, a group pushing for marijuana legalization.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2009, 02:01:17 PM »
but is open to any Oregon residents who are NORML members and hold an official medical marijuana card.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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PTK

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2009, 02:03:38 PM »
Grandpa Shooter,

NORML is an organization whose members, myself included, find marijuana prohibition as laughable as alcohol prohibition. For me, marijuana works better than Zofran/ondansetron to make me not throw up from all the opiates I have to take due to chronic pain.

As noted, this isn't a "come in and get high" place, it's akin to a cafe for ONLY those who have medical marijuana cards. Keep in mind, states that have medical marijuana generally also have dozens and dozens of ordinary looking stores which are medical marijuana dispensaries.
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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2009, 02:19:39 PM »
It was only in the first part of the 1900's that any prohibitions or limitations were placed on recreational drugs (aside from alcohol, ironically enough). Anyone could walk into a drugstore and get as many pounds of opium as they wanted, perfectly legally. Was our country morally and ethically bankrupt from 1776 until 1913 (or whenever that law was passed, can't recall the exact date)?

I agree with you that drinking alcohol is not wrong until you misuse it. Why is marijuana different?

I just can't conceive of a moral system where denying cancer patients the use of substances they need to cope with chemo etc is the "moral" choice.
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tyme

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2009, 02:21:59 PM »
Quote
That again falls under the issue of use or abuse.  You have a couple of beers sitting on your patio and stumble in to your bedroom, I could care less.  If you down some and get behind the wheel to go get even more, yup you bet I have a problem with it.

So you object categorically to marijuana, but you only object to specific ABUSES of alcohol?  And you fail to see the hypocrisy in that?
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Jamisjockey

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2009, 02:27:37 PM »
Are you alluding to the use of mind altering drugs in so called "religious" cults, and therefore condoning it?


Not even close. 
I'm comparing the freedom of being able to be personally immoral to being able to have religious freedom. 
You either believe in freedom, or you don't.
JD

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Standing Wolf

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2009, 04:50:30 PM »
Quote
You either believe in freedom, or you don't.

Amen. Freedom isn't a cafeteria.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2009, 04:58:17 PM »
I made reference in a thread a few weeks back about Conservative Statisim.  I was told that was an oxymoron.  Legislated morality is conservative statisim.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2009, 05:19:08 PM »
WRT OP:

Fine by me, as long as it has some of the same restrictions that alcohol faces: DUI, minors prohibited from use/entry, etc.

My grandpa, a decorated veteran if the Italian campaign in WWII, used some wacky tobaccy as he died from metastasizing colon cancer.  Seems his docs were afraid to prescribe useful doses of painkillers to keep him from howling in agony as he died.  A motorcycle-riding, pot-smoking neighbor took pity on my grandpa & grandma and gave him a little pipe and enough weed to see him through, God bless him.

I made reference in a thread a few weeks back about Conservative Statisim.  I was told that was an oxymoron.  Legislated morality is conservative statisim.

Dude, some conception of morality gets codified into law.  It is impossible to avoid.  You just object to this particular bit of morality.  As do I.

The debate is not if morality gets legal backing, but what bits of morality and, perhaps, what moral philosophy will guide lawmaking.

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Standing Wolf

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2009, 08:46:57 PM »
Quote
The debate is not if morality gets legal backing, but what bits of morality and, perhaps, what moral philosophy will guide lawmaking.

I'll buy that, and offer a handy-dandy guide: what's the minimum quantity of legislation we can get by with? The less legislation, the less intrusion of any and all kinds.
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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2009, 08:49:21 PM »
I'll buy that, and offer a handy-dandy guide: what's the minimum quantity of legislation we can get by with? The less legislation, the less intrusion of any and all kinds.

I like the cut of your jib Standing Wolf. I think that just about sums it up.
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dm1333

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2009, 08:55:40 PM »
I'm going to have to side with Grandpa Shooter on this one.  I live in Mendocino County, CA (part of the Emerald Triangle) and moved here from Sault Ste Marie, MI.  I get to see the aftermath of a culture that accepts pot as "OK" on a daily basis.  This includes everything from bums begging in the streets, gangs, plenty of crime involving the theft of pot, commercial grows in the woods that absolutely trash the environment (yeah, the greenies don't like to talk about that, but plenty of trash, plastic, irrigation pipe, fertilizer, oil, diesel and gas get dumped in the woods after harvest), indoor grows that cause fires, even mortgage fraud!  This is in a town of about 6000 people, with a few thousand more around the outskirts of town and then nothing but woods till you hit the next little burg of 6000 people.

The legalization argument doesn't hold any water with me after living in Sault Ste Marie.  Booze and cigarettes are legal in both the US and Canada but that sure didn't stop people from smuggling them all the time.  Along with pot, human beings, stolen snow machine parts, and all sorts of prescription drugs.  You would have a hard time convincing me that even if marijuana was legalized all across the US (not just for medical use, but legal, just like booze) that there wouldn't still be a large amount of crime associated with the cultivation and use of this drug.  When I first moved back to Mendo I heard on the radio that the wife of a public defender had been arrested in Utah when a drug dog alerted during a traffic stop.  I thought it was a little odd that this was news until I heard that she had 162 pounds of pot in her truck!  

The county sheriff has said that 12 plants or 8 ounces of pot is ok, the county has upped that to 25 plants and 2lbs.  http://cannabisnews.com/news/17/thread17587.shtml   The reality of the situation here is that you can have a lot more than that before the DA will try to prosecute, the cut off seems to be somewhere north of 30 pounds.  I've heard from plenty of people (PD, Sheriffs Dept, CHP, CALFIRE, State Parks, Fish and Game, etc.) that there are an awful lot of card holders who fly along under the radar selling pot 1 or 2 pounds at a time.  It doesn't sound profitable until you realized that most growers get around 2500 bucks a pound and spend about 500 bucks growing a pound.

Quote
Sometimes liberty means people can do things that you don't like. What's important is does it harm you?

I agree, but but the experience here in Mendocino County is that amount of crime involving the theft or wrongful sale of medical marijuana has gone up quite a bit.  Here are the results of a quick search, you can read both sides of the argument.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=crime+involving+medical+marijuana+mendocino&ei=utf-8&fr=b1ie7

Now it is time for me to put my asbestos suit on!

Based on my personal experience with the marijuana culture here and my experiences with smugglers I would have to agree with Grandpa Shooter.  
« Last Edit: November 14, 2009, 09:07:53 PM by dm1333 »

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2009, 09:00:00 PM »
how much booze got smuggled after prohibition ended?

the first  objections you listed 4 of em go away with legalization.  the begging thing i'm not sure is pot related
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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dm1333

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Re: The Pot Place?
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2009, 09:13:26 PM »
CD,

I'm talking about booze and cigarettes being smuggled from the US into Canada now.  The main reason for it to avoid paying taxes.  The begging thing is most certainly related to pot.  I've had people ask for money so they can buy pot and just last week somebody offered to trade me pot for my bicycle.

I don't agree that legalization will make any of the crime problems in this county go away.  Booze, cigarettes, snow machine parts and prescription drugs are legal in both the US and Canada and there is a pretty healthy amount of smuggling going on in places like Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York, etc.

People are also lazy.  You can grow pot here and sell it with very little likelyhood of getting caught, prosecuted and thrown into jail.  And people will steal it instead of growing it.  Call me a cynic! =D

I propose an APS field trip.  Next fall anybody who wants to can fly into the area and I'll rent a van.  We'll take a tour of Mendocino County with stops in Ukiah, Redwood Valley, Potter Valley and Garberville, then head north into Humboldt County.  We can record how many times you get asked if you want to buy some pot, if you have any pot for sale, witness a sale (hint - find a dive bar and walk into the bathroom), find evidence of a grow that has trashed the local environment, or smell pot being dried.  It may not convince you that I am right but I'll bet it will be an eye opener for a lot of you.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2009, 09:19:22 PM by dm1333 »