The Pot Place?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

8 oz of that pot?  its a lot  much better than the stuff i grew up with.
dm133   the 2000 number seem high?  you should see the number of folk that get high in the average area  and the demographics would astonish you.

[KD5NRH]

Is eight ounces of pot a lot?

An ounce of tobacco, rolled unfiltered, will keep a pack-a-day filtered cigarette smoker going for a couple days.  Given the relative rarity of people who smoke 20 joints a day, 8oz should be a few weeks' supply for any but the most dedicated potheads.

I've never heard of MJ being used in a manner similar to dry nasal snuff, (will the THC work by that type of absorption?  It seems like that would overcome the problem of the smoke smell lingering) but a pocket snuffbox is generally 5-10 grams (.2-.4oz) and will keep a typical snuff taker going for anywhere from a day to a week.

[Jamisjockey]

Which is part of my argument too!  There is talk of legalizing pot and taxing it to help get California out of debt.  The problem is that sales taxes vary by county and sometimes even city.  If pot is legalized state wide there will be tax fraud because people want to avoid taxes.  There will also be smuggling.  If it is legalized nation wide there will be the same kind of tax fraud and we will probably be exporting crime because pot will be going across the borders to Canada and Mexico.

I'm perfectly willing to admit the flaws in my argument.  There are no medical marijuana clinics near where I live.  I'm tying medical marijuana and illicit marijuana together.  I'll freely admit any other flaws you guys can point out.  

But I also live in a place where you could argue that pot is as legal as it gets in this country.  San Francisco might have a good claim on that dubious title.  The county here used to have a haz mat team that dealt with two things, crystal meth and pot.  I'm not sure if they still do because I've only been back here for about 5 months.  There is plenty of crime around the pot trade even though it has basically been decriminalized if the amount is less than about 30 pounds.  Just type in any combination of pot/marijuana/crime/mendocino into a search engine.  One of the big concerns for fire agencies out here are fires started by poorly wired grow lights, humidifiers and fans.  People steal electrical power for their grows.  I used to think that arresting people for smoking or growing dope was kind of stupid, even though I've never smoked it, until I moved here back in 2003.  This place has convinced me that legalizing pot for any use is a bad idea.

People already dodge taxes.  
Currently, much of the crime that happens with drugs can only happen because it is illegal.  
You argue that there is still smuggling.  If Alcohol and Smokes were illegal, there would only be smuggling.  And when there is a kings ransom to be made smuggling, very bad people take the risks associated with that, including robbing and killing other people, in higher numbers.
Look at whats happening in Mexico.  Why is there so much violence associated with the drug trade?  Because there is so much money to be made and it's illegal.
Much of the other things you're listing are already illegal.  Making the drug illegal only adds incentive for people to break other laws in its production.


Taxing anything as a "vice" is immoral in my book.  If its taxed, it should be the same rate no matter what whether its alcohol, cars, food or books.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

An ounce of tobacco, rolled unfiltered, will keep a pack-a-day filtered cigarette smoker going for a couple days.  Given the relative rarity of people who smoke 20 joints a day, 8oz should be a few weeks' supply for any but the most dedicated potheads.

I've never heard of MJ being used in a manner similar to dry nasal snuff, (will the THC work by that type of absorption?  It seems like that would overcome the problem of the smoke smell lingering) but a pocket snuffbox is generally 5-10 grams (.2-.4oz) and will keep a typical snuff taker going for anywhere from a day to a week.

a 1/2 pound of that pot?  woulda kept me nearly comatose a month  and i was a world class pothead got high 10-12 times a day. bonging it would keep a recreational user 2 months if they were holding down a job.  someone using it medicinally i have no experience with

[KD5NRH]

a 1/2 pound of that pot?  woulda kept me nearly comatose a month  and i was a world class pothead got high 10-12 times a day. bonging it would keep a recreational user 2 months if they were holding down a job.  someone using it medicinally i have no experience with

I guess it would depend on what they're using it for: mild-to-moderate pain or nausea relief might use a couple of grams a day, whereas some people with severe, terminal pain and no job or anything else to do besides wait to die might be using it to stay pretty well baked out of their minds 24x7.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

and i'd not deny them that

[280plus]

And now, for the musical portion of our show... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvGJvzwKqg0&feature=related

[280plus]

And as if that wasn't enough...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TQ3pC9W1o4

 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZfLGMtsKTc&feature=related

[PTK]

I'm a chronic pain sufferer and 1oz of medical marijuana (being the highest grade one can purchase around here) keeps me going for three to four months. Of course, I only use it for specific kinds of pain and for severe nausea. 

[Jamisjockey]

I'm a chronic pain sufferer and 1oz of medical marijuana (being the highest grade one can purchase around here) keeps me going for three to four months. Of course, I only use it for specific kinds of pain and for severe nausea. 

Interesting enough, so is my Brother.  He was a pothead long before, though 
He broke his back a few years ago snowboarding.  Generally he spends the first half of his day in pretty good pain.

[dm1333]

You have an awful of of "think" and "feel" in your arguments. Just wanted to point that out...

Let me point out too that I'm the only one who lives here in Mendocino County.  I see this every day.  Besides the times when I've said "think" and "feel" I've also provided links.  Here is another interesting link with some information about the same doctor in Mendocino.  Remember that this story is 6 years old and I think based on my observations that the abuse of the system has gotten much worse.  I moved to Michigan for two years and came back here in June.  My offer to escort any of you around Mendocino County is still open.  We can talk face to face and I can drive you around town and point out the number of grows going on even in the city limits.  

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03/n876/a08.html

Dr.  Marvin Trotter, the county public health officer, first refused to consider applications from White when he received about 50 in a two-week period in the spring of last year.  Trotter said he is troubled by the volume of applications and White's focus on seeing people who want marijuana.

"I made up this program to co-sign these cards so that this wouldn't be a fraudulent program.  It's for doctors and patients who fear prosecution," said Trotter.  "I wasn't comfortable to give the stamp of legitimacy of public health to someone who didn't meet the spirit of the policy."

County health officials said there is no known spike in any illness that would account for more extensive use of marijuana for medical reasons in Mendocino County than elsewhere.

Neither the Health Department nor the Sheriff's Office keeps records on what ailments are being treated.

Officials say the purpose of the program is to protect legitimate users and doctors from arrest.  Keeping detailed records isn't required by law and would expose the county to subpoena by agencies that don't recognize marijuana use for medical reasons, they said.

Here is something interesting about Laurel Krause.  She added a paragraph or two to the end of her recounting of her arrest.

http://www.mmmab.net/krause.html

I’m sure you’re asking what is motivating me to come to you. This is truly an American story of our time right now, a devestating economic massacre for us personally and it has county-wide ramifications as at least 70% of the Mendocino economy is based on growing marijuana. Maybe even California as it’s the state’s largest crop. During these times of extreme economic hardship and 10% unemployment in Ft. Bragg, it just doesn’t make any sense to be busting and criminalizing tax-paying citizens, my neighbors and me operating within state and county guidelines.

We are considering moving forward with a class-action suit. I have calls out.

I am sounding this alarms as far and wide as I can. Please feel free to forward this to any of your interested colleagues. I hope to hear from you.

I'm unclear about her motivation.  Is she upset that medical marijuana was seized, or that a cash crop was seized.  

[KD5NRH]

I'm a chronic pain sufferer and 1oz of medical marijuana (being the highest grade one can purchase around here) keeps me going for three to four months. Of course, I only use it for specific kinds of pain and for severe nausea.

You're also (presumably) not yet to the point where all you can do is lay in bed, crap on yourself, wonder whether you'll live another day, then wonder why you care.  Once someone gets to that point, I'd prefer they get whatever they want.

[dm1333]

I'm a chronic pain sufferer and 1oz of medical marijuana (being the highest grade one can purchase around here) keeps me going for three to four months. Of course, I only use it for specific kinds of pain and for severe nausea. 

PTK,  I have all the sympathy in the world for people seeking relief from pain.  My father died a very painful death from liver cancer.  I would have had no problem with him using medical marijuana.  My problem lies in the fact that you can have so much "medical marijuana" here that it defies belief. 

In this county you can take your 1oz and add another 31 and still be legal.  Sonoma County?  You can have three pounds there.

The DA also sent out a memo stating that because of staffing issues the county was not going to prosecute cases involving less than 20 pounds or 200 plants.  This doesn't have a whole lot to do with the medical marijuana issue but it is an example of just how prevalent pot is out here.  I see all the evidence of lots of grows yet I don't see a small town full of people who are cancer ridden, suffering from glaucoma or any other serious illness.  There are less than 10,000 people in the area where I live and a local doctor has issued over 2000 cards. 

http://www.cannabisnews.org/united-states-cannabis-news/staffing-losses-curb-da-pot-prosecutions/

Factors to consider, according to the memo, separate from the plant count, are whether weapons were involved, whether any children were on scene,  iwhether the marijuana was clearlyntended for sale, whether the arrestee has a criminal history and whether there were workers on scene and if they had workers compensation insurance

She said as soon as her office is back to full strength and she has enough experienced attorneys to do the job, the memo’s limitations will be removed.

[MechAg94]

I am not sure that county is a great example for legalization since it almost sounds like it has become a production area for the stuff and the growth, processing, and sale is still underground.  It is hard to separate the problems of its existence versus the problems of it remaining underground.  Police tolerating it is not the same as it being legal.

IMO, until you can buy a pack of cannabis cigarettes at the corner store or get a bottle of pills, it isn't going to be the same.  In other words, make it like tobacco.  That includes regulating production and sales similar to tobacco also.  Then you can see what sort of underground remains. 

[RocketMan]

I'm talking about booze and cigarettes being smuggled from the US into Canada now.  The main reason for it to avoid paying taxes.

Methinks the reason for this is...the taxes are too high?  Pretty simple.

[PTK]

You're also (presumably) not yet to the point where all you can do is lay in bed, crap on yourself, wonder whether you'll live another day, then wonder why you care.  Once someone gets to that point, I'd prefer they get whatever they want.

If you know what dilaudid is, you'll be surprised to hear that 4mg does just about nothing for my pain. There's a reason I have to do something about the nausea from all the medications. 

In any case, I can't tell if your response is due to my being able to make 1oz last me months where some people will NEED many ounces per month - I have no problem with people who need more, that's their business. My personal experience obviously doesn't relate to other people, in that respect. 

[Balog]

dm1333: I've yet to hear you present an argument for what you think banning it (you know, even more than it currently is) will accomplish.

[tyme]

I am not sure that county is a great example for legalization since it almost sounds like it has become a production area for the stuff and the growth, processing, and sale is still underground.  It is hard to separate the problems of its existence versus the problems of it remaining underground.  Police tolerating it is not the same as it being legal.

dm1333, you also wrote that the hazmat team in the area used to deal with meth labs as well when you lived there before.  I don't understand how you attribute the crime solely to marijuana (the legal and/or illegal portions of the trade) if there's also a local meth industry.

[Tuco]

It seems that the illegalities would be eliminated with a blanket legalization (duh)
The criminal element survives because a black market exists in the next state or county.

Is eight ounces of pot a lot? Is that a little? Wouldn't this depend on the quality of the pot in question?

MicroB, 12 plants (cultivated intelligently) can yield well beyond 8 oz.  Half a pound (8 oz) is a lot of grass.

In the late 80s, 1/4 oz of greenhouse (high quality Cannabis indica) grass used niggardly could keep one unnamed individual tuned out for  7-10 days.  Less if he was sharing in the evening.  A full ounce would cover 3 weekends.  Eight ounces would extrapolate to 4 months, since news of such a quantity would get out and increase sharing opportunities, which would bring people around who might want to buy "just a little bit".

I've heard the potency of today's reefer is considerably greater.

For strict individual recreational use, I estimate a half pound would keep the unnamed individual tuned out for 5-6 months, considering increased tolerance.

And please, rest assured I have no clue about and mean no disrespect to those with a legitimate medical condition.

[Perd Hapley]

Is there a "medical" way to apply medical marijuana, or is it just smoked like usual?  If so, does it have any of the negative effects of smoking tobacco? 

[PTK]

It depends. 



Seriously, though - smoking, processing into other items (food), ingesting straight, "vaporizing" by action of a hotplate at just the right temperature, then inhaling the smoke, and a bunch of other ways as well.

The most medical way to apply it is.... whatever works best/can afford.

[BridgeRunner]

...whatever works best/can afford.

Keeping in mind, of course, that a vaporizer costs about as much as half a day's worth of Zofran?

[PTK]

We have a winner. Also, long term use of Zofran SUCKS.

[MicroBalrog]

Is there a "medical" way to apply medical marijuana, or is it just smoked like usual?  If so, does it have any of the negative effects of smoking tobacco? 

While I am not an expert (as I've stated previously in this thread) in the use of marijuana and have never consumed or handled the drug in question, I have seen documentaries on the whole medical marijuana struggle that depicted vaporizers being used. [They're also popular among the more... shall we say, 'advanced' consumers of the drug in question].

PTK can probably explain this better than I can.