Alice Day: when did pedophiles get a holiday?

[Ned Hamford]

I'm rather ok with the call the police idea.  If the person is legit, there is some hassle and silliness, but shouldn't be any real concern about a LEO knowing.  As for pervs and predators, adding to the public knowledge is a fairly important thing to do.  It won't stop them, but it may shift them to the next playground over and make catching them far more likely.

[taurusowner]

So if I'm at a park with you and I notice you have a pistol on your person, you'd be OK with a "man with a gun" call?  Just some hassle and silliness after all.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

if i take a pic use the words police list and check picture and they get hinkey it might be time for a medical assistance 911 call. i think some parks i go to the perv would be wise to call the cops himself and tell em to hurry

[BridgeRunner]

Does anybody even bother to teach it anymore?  I occasionally fish in the park, and I have to find places that are hard to get to just to cut down on the number of unattended small children wandering over to talk to me.  I may not look as socially unacceptable as some of you guys, but I can generally scare off the beggars in a parking lot.

We actively teach against it.  It is not good for a child to be generally afraid of other people.  Stranger Danger simply contributes to the modern trend of people spending more and more and more time alone or in tight family groups, never meeting new people, never being friendly to neighbors or strangers.  Fortunately, so far, my kid has been pretty comfortable saying no when she doesn't feel comfortable. 

I'd just as soon some creep didn't get off from thinking about or looking at my three year old, but there's not much I can do about someone else's thoughts.  This is one of the many things I refuse to worry about. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i agree with bw here  my kid has gotten too antsy since they taught the stranger danger stuff in school

[dogmush]

I dake pictures at my dog park, that has a childrens playground behind it, and let me tell you, if someone came up to me apropos of nothing, took a pic and said they were going to check the police list I might very well get what they would consider "Hinkey".  I'd be annoyed, and a little worried about what their real motivation was.  And if you then attacked me, we'd have problems.

I get that pedophiles are bad folks, and it boils my blood as well when people abuse kids, but some of you guys have to realize that simply having children around doesn't give you carte blanche to act the fool.  

Seriously, it's a picture.  Even if they are actually pedo's it's not stealing your kids soul or anything, it's a picture.  Save the outrage, veiled threats, and vigilantism for when they try to take the child.

[taurusowner]

Apparently you didn't get the memo that everything is permissible if it's "for the children".

[Ned Hamford]

So if I'm at a park with you and I notice you have a pistol on your person, you'd be OK with a "man with a gun" call?  Just some hassle and silliness after all.

That goes into LEO quality and local laws.  I'd really hope the LEO taking the call gives and 'And?'  Would you throw a hissy fit about being asked if you have a permit?   Police going in open draw for someone strolling along practicing their rights is certainly grounds for disciplinary action.  

I've had officers engage me in conversation without any escalation of confrontation and like to think thats the norm...  

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Someone taking pictures of your children,,, seems reasonable to ask them about it.  If there remains suspicion afterwards the police have procedures for suspicious persons reports.  Having an officer walk up and say 'Whats up' doesn't seem to be a societal breakdown to me.  Can't each step be civil?  Why threats and secret gov lists?  But I suppose its largely just paranoia on each side, stranger danger rearing parents and police state paranoiacs.

[makattak]

Apparently you didn't get the memo that everything is permissible if it's "for the children".

I plan on using the rights to take photos in public just as you would be doing.

If you have a problem with that, perhaps you ought not to be exercising that right? As I said, I'd ask you to stop and if you did not, document your taking pictures. If you don't want somone taking pictures of you in public, maybe you should rethink your high horse about being free to take whatever pictures you want even if it makes someone else concerned about their child's safety?

[MicroBalrog]

i agree with bw here  my kid has gotten too antsy since they taught the stranger danger stuff in school

...I... agree with C&SD and Bridgewalker.

[taurusowner]

Ned,
So just to be clear, you are in favor of initiating law enforcement action against someone who is acting lawfully in a public place just if it makes you feel uncomfortable?




Let me be clear, maybe it's just because I happen to be a particularly cold and callous person, but there is not a single human being in the world whose feelings I am concerned about.  I honestly don't care what some helicopter mom feels about me or what I do in public as long as I am within the law.  Makattak, just for clarity, would you be so kind as to point out where I said I don't want someone taking pictures of me in public?  I'm gonna lawfully do what I feel like.  Everyone else is free to do the same.  I am not going to feel bad about what they are doing, and right along with that, I am not going to give a damn how they feel about what I am doing.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

the predators don't like it when approached. there was a guy hanging out at the kids museum in richmond. i noticed he didn't seem to be with any kids just watching them i eased up an asked him nicely "which one is yours and he hauled outa there like a shot. i hate shorteyed mfer's my phone was in a locker or i'd have gotten a pic. look at it this way putting a lil fear in em keeping em away from the kids does them a favor too.

[dogmush]

Mak, take all the pictures you want. It might annoy me, but goose, gander and all that.

It was:

i take a pic use the words police list and check picture and they get hinkey it might be time for a medical assistance 911 call.

That threat of violence if someone was "hinkey" I objected to.

[roo_ster]

...I... agree with C&SD and Bridgewalker.

<quickly searches through Revelations to determine if this is a sign of impending apocalypse>

Ned,
So just to be clear, you are in favor of initiating law enforcement action against someone who is acting lawfully in a public place just if it makes you feel uncomfortable?

Yep, if my spidey sense were triggered hard enough, I would do so.  Most times, though, I can look intimidating enough that such is not necessary.  I mostly keep my Ranger Face under wraps these days and am quite amiable.  But, it is there to be used when necessary.

And, in fact, I have not felt the need to give LEOs a call in this circumstance, though a few folks saw the harder side of jfruser when circumstances, the other's actions, & spidey sense indicated that it was best for them to move on. 

I have several such incidents at Saturday AM soccer games with the kiddos.  I know the kids, parents, & soccer assoc volunteers.  Who TF is this guy?  Maybe I'll strike up a conversation...

Besides, calling John Q. Law and making a truthful report is also "acting lawfully in a public place." 

Let me be clear, maybe it's just because I happen to be a particularly cold and callous person, but there is not a single human being in the world whose feelings I am concerned about.  I honestly don't care what some helicopter mom feels about me or what I do in public as long as I am within the law. 

That's fine & dandy.  And you won't mind if the rest of the folks around you regard you with suspicion commensurate with a sociopath?  Glad we got that cleared up.

Makattak, just for clarity, would you be so kind as to point out where I said I don't want someone taking pictures of me in public?  I'm gonna lawfully do what I feel like.  Everyone else is free to do the same.  I am not going to feel bad about what they are doing, and right along with that, I am not going to give a damn how they feel about what I am doing, "for the children" be damned.

Act in a callous and anti-social manner, get treated like a callous and anti-social person.  No great mysteries, here.  If you'd take a moment to be considerate, you might find most folks to be decent enough...and much less likely to look upon you as a threat. 

Of course, acting considerate is not required bylaw.  It just makes interpersonal relations easier and one less likely to be viewed with suspicion.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i have the experience, as opposed to pleasure. to counsel several pervs.  its a challenge for me. one that i am not always up to. i gave one of them detailed instructions on how to and my blessing to get started on killing himself as my wife listened in horror to 1/2 the phone conversation. i have learned to trust my gut initially and only require confirmation before taking physical action. calling the cops to check someone out?  no prob. seen it done and lo and behold the cops ran the guy found out his parole specified him never being near kids. if i call on someone and it hurts their feeling and i was wrong i can apologize to them. i'd rather apologize than wish i had done something and not have

[Strings]

RE: "stranger danger".

Keep in mind: anyone not family or a close friend of yours when your child is born, starts out as a stranger. And there have been enough cases where a pedophile grooms the parents to maybe give some thought to watching for such behavior...

Now... would *I* drop the dime on someone I felt was acting suspiciously? In a bloody heartbeat. It's Johnny Law's job to help sort out such things.

Would I be upset if someone dropped the dime on me? Nope: been there, done that, gave the t-shirt back 'cause it was too small. Didn't bother me a bit.

The idea is to confront (calmly) someone who appears to be engaging in suspicious behavior. It may very well be Bogie, just getting some snaps for a legitimate website: when asked, I'm sure he would explain such. We're not talking about making a scene out of Dodge City here.

Folks who are engaged in a legitimate pursuit shouldn't have a problem saying as much. Pedophiles though, when "caught out", will get nervous... and likely leave the area. Which is the desired result.

[MechAg94]

Does anyone have access to current statistics on who the abusers are?  Strangers or people the kids know or parent know?  I thought I have heard it was the people they know more often, but I can't remember.

[Perd Hapley]

So if I'm at a park with you and I notice you have a pistol on your person, you'd be OK with a "man with a gun" call?  Just some hassle and silliness after all.

The comparison only makes sense if the "man with a gun" is shooting in the direction of the child.  Which is to say it doesn't. 

But I have no dog in this fight.

[zahc]

The comparison only makes sense if the "man with a gun" is shooting in the direction of the child.

Analogy fail. Shooting the direction of the child would be obviously illegal and endanger the child. Photographing people in a public place, like peacefully carrying a sidearm, is neither illegal (we assume), nor harmful.

[Perd Hapley]

So guns are not a good comparison at all?  I agree. 

[Tallpine]

Does anyone have access to current statistics on who the abusers are?  Strangers or people the kids know or parent know?  I thought I have heard it was the people they know more often, but I can't remember.

Doesn't really matter, as either one can do permanent damage  

Child is probably more likely to end up dead with a stranger, though  

if i call on someone and it hurts their feeling and i was wrong i can apologize to them. i'd rather apologize than wish i had done something and not have

Agreed.  See above - it only takes once to hurt a child forever.

As far as photography in public, a little consideration could go a long way.  If you are legit, you might want to carry some business cards and maybe even a small portfolio of your work.  You might even sell something  

[Balog]

If having to talk to a cop because you are acting suspicious is a major civil rights violation, you need new cops.

[Hawkmoon]

Take the given example...

You're at the park with your child. Adult is there, no kids seem to be "with" them, and they're taking pictures with a camera that (from appearances) is aimed at your children.

When you ask what they're doing, they claim to be taking shots of the background, and never realized your child was in the shot. However, they also refuse to stop aiming that camera in the direction of your children. They also have no form of press credentials.

What would you suggest as a next step (for the concerned parent)?

More to the point -- what would YOU recommend?

I am an amateur photographer. (In fact, since I was once paid for some photos I took, I guess I could even claim to be a "professional" photographer). Ya know what photographers do for, like, relaxation? They go out and take pictures. Of anything. Everything. What the subject is may not matter at all, depending on the photographer's particular, ah, "focus" (pardon the pun). What's important for many isn't the subject but the photo -- the lighting, the composition, the focus/depth of field. The best way to get good at manipulating those things is to take photos ... LOTS of photos. I once worked at a place that sub-let a darkroom to a professional photographer. On his vacations, he took photographs. This was pre-digital. He shot slides. He would come back from a 2-week vacation with perhaps 3,000 to 5,000 slides. That's probably more than many people have taken in a lifetime. Then he'd camp out in the conference room with a light box and start going through them, performing triage. On the initial run-through, he would throw away at least two-thirds of them. Then he'd sit down with the rest and REALLY look at them.

Taking photographs is just what photographers do. Deal with it. Taking photos in a public place isn't against the law. I detest pedophiles, but trampling constitutional and civil rights is not the way to protect children. Educating children to protect themselves is the only acceptablle way (IMHO).

[Balog]

How is having to talk to a cop "trampling constitutional and civil rights"? I have a right to test my home security by breaking in to my house in the middle of the night. If I did I wouldn't feel all that trampled if the cops showed up and asked me what's up. I'm tempted to look up some of ya'lls comments about Prof Gates little hissy fit and see if you felt the same about that little fiasco.

[KD5NRH]

Does anyone have access to current statistics on who the abusers are?

Obviously, they're the guys wandering around public places with expensive DSLRs.  Couldn't be the ones camped out in the "pedophile paradise" RV park 30 yards from the city park's main playground.

i take pictures back  and i've memorized the faces of the local pervs on the "list"  the ones i didn't already know. got 4 working at dominoes.

The ones here who don't work at the cafe down the street seem to be largely employed by lawn services.  Gives them access to people's yards, and a job that pretty well lets them know mommy and daddy's schedules.  Needless to say, I cut my own grass, and watch the services that handle neighbors' yards.