Pondering a big bore pistol for hiking

[charby]

of all the wild beasts here in the catckills, the coyotes are the ones that raise my neck hair.  when out cutting wood we will occasionally see them on the fringes, as if waiting for the right moment.

My experiences with coyotes if you saw one when not hunting them they were usually running the other way from you like their ass was on fire. Coydogs and feral dogs come towards you but quick sudden movements from you usually sends them in the opposite direction with the same response that coyotes make.

[lee n. field]

Field strip my glock 17. Ok, done.

Dropped my S&W 325 in sand and saltwater. 2 hours later in the bathroom sink I had it apart enough for me, cleaned and put back together.

Exactly. 

BTW, is this a "what gun do I buy next" thread?

Speaking of pondering...I'm pondering selling my S&W 625 that has been converted to .460 Rowland. It has the advantage of a wide power range and super fast reloads. I also have two barrels for it (3 and 5 inch) and a good cross draw holster.

"I'll give you fifty bucks for it."      (My standard lowball offer.  Someday I'll get lucky.)

Two barrels?  How do you manage a barrel swap?  I assume this is not something like the Dan Wesson system.

My abortive trade deal a few weeks back with the goofy guy off armslist left me with some desire for a bigger bore revolver.  So, we'll trundle off to the Pec gunshow in an hour or so, and I'll take my Firestar+cash and see if anyone has anything they can be snookered out of.

[roo_ster]

Speaking of pondering...I'm pondering selling my S&W 625 that has been converted to .460 Rowland. It has the advantage of a wide power range and super fast reloads. I also have two barrels for it (3 and 5 inch) and a good cross draw holster.
I love the gun...but got too many things going on these days to even get it out of the safe. And need to raise some cash. It wouldn't be one of your cheaper options though. Drop me a note if interested.

You are a bad, bad man to tempt me so.  I shoot N-frames better than any other revolvers.

I assume .460R with moon clips?  So it is good-to-go for .45GAP, .45ACP, .45Super, ,45Winmag, and .460R all with moon clips?  And with .45autorim without?

[Lee]

Yep. 
To be honest, I don't know if I can part with this gun...just pondering for now.  Something's gotta go though. They're all my favorites...I'm sure you've been there.

I bought it with the 3" installed and an extra 5". Had Clark Custom do the cylinder conversion.
Here's the only bad. Someone recommended a local smith to swap the barrels for me.  I wanted the 5" for deer hunting (which I never did).  I also asked him to switch the sights -I wanted the orange sights on the longer barrel.  He turned out to be a bad smith (I'll be nice).  When I picked up the gun, he handed me the gun and said, "here's your toy"...as he laid his own pistol on the counter in front of him.  The gun had slipped from his vise and there were (are) two scratch marks on the 5" barrel.  I decided not to get in a gun fight over it, so I paid him for part of the work (which he did well) and left.  I was able to buff them out to a degree...but they're still visible.  It pisses me off to this day.  I was going to send it in to S&W, but never got around to it.  Other than that, it looks and runs like new.  Only put about 20-30 rounds of .460 through it...if that.

[Tallpine]

My experiences with coyotes if you saw one when not hunting them they were usually running the other way from you like their ass was on fire. Coydogs and feral dogs come towards you but quick sudden movements from you usually sends them in the opposite direction with the same response that coyotes make.

Yeah, except for the ones that killed that young lady up in Canada a few years ago 


Nothing wrong with a semi-automatic pistol for woods carry unless you need something in the .44 magnum range.  Honestly, though I think a .357 is plenty for eastern woods/mountains, if you already have a bunch of pistols and are going to get a revolver, why not go with a dot four-something caliber?

[280plus]

I don't know Rev, I still picture you with that 500. It just fits. I know, probably too much iron to haul around. The lightweight .44 is a nice choice. Rumor has it the recoil is something like, "a fresh mountain breeze" or similar type words. Gothatassesmentfromwildalaskaawhileback

[seeker_two]

If you want to stick with revolvers, go with a J-frame  .357 like the SP-101 or a S&W 60. A Charter Arms in  .44SPL or  .40S&W would also be a good choice.

If you don't mind autoloaders, any  .40S&W or  .45ACP will do.

Main thing will be bullet selection. I'd go with a solid bullet (FMJ or HC) over a hollowpoint. Penetration is key with large animals. And it doesn't do too bad on two-legged critters, either.

[Ben]

The coyotes are watching you...

[zxcvbob]

[brimic]

I don't know Rev, I still picture you with that 500. It just fits. I know, probably too much iron to haul around. The lightweight .44 is a nice choice. Rumor has it the recoil is something like, "a fresh mountain breeze" or similar type words. Gothatassesmentfromwildalaskaawhileback

I remember there was a group buy for John Ross .500s on Castboolits a few years back. I remember Mr. Ross discussing a Wadcutter bullet he designed for the revolver with a lighter easy to manage load -'alley cleaner' or something like that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ross/Performance_Center_5%22_.500_S%26W_Magnum

[Matthew Carberry]

Late to the party but for the Northeast caliber is less important than bullet selection. You guys just don't have anything thick skinned and heavy boned enough to worry about a "real" big bore. I've always heard a properly set up .45 ACP or .357 is enough for all but grizzly defense in the lower 48.

Just use a heavy for caliber hardcast bullet out of the platform you are most comfortable with and you can probably call it good.

Buffalo Bore has an option in everything from .38 Spc / 9mm on up.

We have a couple dozen resident brown bears ands hundreds each black bears and moose inside the city limits in Anchorage and I still stick with my LW Cmdr for daily carry unless I'm going on one of the streamside trails or hiking up in the hills during the salmon run (.460 Rowland on a SA 1911 in a Bianchi X15 to be discrete, the chest rig is for real hiking/camping).

Other than that, I carry a mag of BB 45+P hardcast to put in for unplanned "woodsy" dog walks and the like and call it good.

edit to add - you can get the .460 additional upper on the 1911, XD, M&P, and Glock .45s. It's a nice, easy shooting option for folks who don't want to invest in a whole new platform.

[Tallpine]

"Discrete" in Alaska 

Things have changed since I was there.

[JN01]

Another option might be an autoloader chambered in .357 Sig.

[HForrest]

Glock 20 is the ideal woods gun unless you're in serious grizzly territory, if you ask me. The Glock 20 is entirely controllable, more pleasant to shoot than a .44 magnum by far, and I think it's the perfect balance of repeatable rapid shot placement and high kinetic energy performance. 15 rounds of serious, deep penetrating stopping power in a reliable package that goes bang every time. Performs the functions of a modern defensive duty pistol and a woods protection gun equally well.

[Matthew Carberry]

"Discrete" in Alaska 

Things have changed since I was there.

These are the bike trails in Anchorage and the path to Flattop I'm talking about not "the woods."

The compensator makes the gun a bit long for my muscle-memory drawstroke from my belt rigs. The shoulder rig is less obvious than the chest rig and no slower. There is no downside to -not- scaring the soccer moms if there is no cost  to the carrier in speed, accuracy, or comfort.

In my opinion it falls in line with not being a dick about carry.

[mtnbkr]

IMO, one of the benefits of a 44mag over 357 is the commonly available ammo is more suitable for woodland use.  Most of what you find is 357mag "on the shelf" is designed for self-defense against humans, where the 44mag's commonly available stuff may not be up to the full potential of the cartridge, but will easily handle anything in the Mid-Atlantic region.  To me, it's like buying a truck.  You *can* get a truck rated to tow 5k lbs and use it to tow 4500lbs, but you're safer buying one that can tow 10k pounds.  While you'll never use the full capacity, you're well within its performance limits.

As for revolver vs semi, I like running my first shot as snakeshot during warm months.  That's a bit trickier with a semi, assuming the snakeshot is even available for that chambering. 
If I were to get a semi, it would probably be a 10mm though.

Chris

[AZRedhawk44]

Another option might be an autoloader chambered in .357 Sig.

Disagree.

I tried this with .400 corbon, a similar bottleneck automatic cartridge.

There isn't enough case mouth and case length to hold onto high sectional density bullets.

I'd rather have a .38 super than a .357sig.  And a .357 magnum over either of them.  And a 10mm over that.

[tokugawa]

What is the deal with snake shot? if a snake is close enough to pose a threat, and you even see it,would not stepping out of the way be quicker? And if it is not, why shoot it?

 Just curious.

[mtnbkr]

Stepping away isn't always an option.  Happened to a buddy of mine.

You can use it for other stuff as well, such as vermin where you don't want to sling lead, etc. 

Chris

[AZRedhawk44]

What is the deal with snake shot? if a snake is close enough to pose a threat, and you even see it,would not stepping out of the way be quicker? And if it is not, why shoot it?

 Just curious.

I don't believe in "snake shot."  I believe in aiming.

The only defensive shot I've ever fired in the woods was against a snake.  My dog was off leash and about 25 yards ahead of me, and we both heard a rattlesnake's rattle.  He takes off towards it like a mongoose, and the snake is between me and him.  I drew and hip-shot twice while extending, then shot twice more once I had a good aim.



That's two in the neck about six inches down from the head, and then the two in the head (yes, that's two... not one) were when I took closer aim.

My dog would have been bit had I not done that.  Being 5 miles from the truck at this point, plus another 10 miles off road, and another 20 miles of paved travel from the nearest vet, he probably would have died.

I practice defensive snake shooting though, by throwing a can or empty cartridge box and drawing/shooting on the bounce.

[MechAg94]

In the past, Bass Pro Shops sold Remington 180 grain 357 loads.  Of course, it is Remington so you can probably find someting better.  I like the Glock 20 idea.  Seems like a lighter and higher capacity option for most circumstances.

I would also recommend a good walking stick which might help you keep an attacking animal at by while you draw.  They are also useful for knocking spider webs out of the way.  It can be a good weapon that doesn't look like a weapon.

[RevDisk]

Exactly. 

BTW, is this a "what gun do I buy next" thread?

No, not exactly. I have little practical experience with large bore handguns and wildlife. I'm not a pistol hunter, and near all of my weapons are selected for their optimal usage against humans. This is wildly outside my expertise. I can apply what I know about using force against humans and apply that to nature, but I suspect it may be inaccurate.

Apparently a .357 may or maybe be adequate. A .44 mag with specialized loading seems to be aimed at reducing reload. There was the odd cheer for the 10mm, which catches my interest. I got a lot of information, now I have to sort it out into more useable form as there was no real consensus. Which makes me feel better for asking, as it is apparently not straightforward at all if each and every person has a widely variable answer.

[charby]

No, not exactly. I have little practical experience with large bore handguns and wildlife. I'm not a pistol hunter, and near all of my weapons are selected for their optimal usage against humans. This is wildly outside my expertise. I can apply what I know about using force against humans and apply that to nature, but I suspect it may be inaccurate.

Apparently a .357 may or maybe be adequate. A .44 mag with specialized loading seems to be aimed at reducing reload. There was the odd cheer for the 10mm, which catches my interest. I got a lot of information, now I have to sort it out into more useable form as there was no real consensus. Which makes me feel better for asking, as it is apparently not straightforward at all if each and every person has a widely variable answer.

Speaking of handgun hunting, I hunt with a handgun and many of my friends also do. From their experiences they have deemed .41 mag or 10mm as the smallest caliber for deer hunting. Many of them started out with a .357 magnum and found it be not adequate to cleanly kill a 135lb or bigger whitetail deer. I have seen deer shot with a .357 and with a .44 mag and the .44 mag will definitely put the hurt on them vs the .357. Just look at the muzzle energy from a .357 vs .44 mags out of a 4-5" revolver. 

I haven't actually shot a deer first with a handgun but I finished a few off with 10mm mag (obscure awesome round that I used to own).

[zxcvbob]

Don't forget about .44 Special -- you don't *have* to shoot magnums.

[AZRedhawk44]

Don't forget about .44 Special -- you don't *have* to shoot magnums.

+1.

Diameter, bullet construction, crushing power.  And "just enough" velocity.