Are Democrats REALLY this deluded?

[charby]

Google is your friend.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1576/Abortion.aspx

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1576/Abortion.aspx

http://www.gallup.com/poll/118378/Majority-Americans-Continue-Oppose-Gay-Marriage.aspx

http://www.pollingreport.com/civil.htm

The notion that anti-abortion and anti-gay-marriage stances are political liabilities is a complete myth.

Wow! 22% who want  abortion completly illegal is now a majority.

I do see that a slight majority polled don't want gay marriage.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

75% want abortion either entirely illegal or legal only in specific circumstances.  I really fail to see why it's a Really Bad Idea for either party to put forth candidates who echo that belief.

Actually, I'm peeved at the misperception of so many people on abortion and gay marriage.  It seems to be taken as gospel truth that any polit-critter who opposes these is automatically out of touch with society and sure to lose.  The actual numbers show the reverse, but that doesn't seem to stop people from spouting off about these issues being some kind of third rail.

I suspect that this perception is a fabrication of the media, and it saddens me to see otherwise intelligent people buy into the myth.

[Jim147]

75% want abortion either entirely illegal or legal only in specific circumstances.  I really fail to see why it's a Really Bad Idea for either party to put forth candidates who echo that belief.

Isn't that the current legal standing on abortion. Or do these people want to decide what the specific circumstances are.

jim

[AZRedhawk44]

Actually, I'm peeved at the misperception of so many people on abortion and gay marriage.  It seems to be taken as gospel truth that any polit-critter who opposes these is automatically out of touch with society and sure to lose.  The actual numbers are the opposite.

One thing the Dems have done extremely well in the last 30+ years... is indoctrinate the concept of "tolerance" into the independent and conservative voting masses, while leaving leftist-radical prejudices in place.  

If you're generally conservative and don't believe in the validity of X issue (abortion, federalized health care, social security, whatever) and don't want it in your life, you're expected to still consider the plight of the "others."  After all, who are you to judge?

Your vote is your judgement, IMO, and there's nothing wrong with judging.

Believe you me, the left judges when they vote.

Do you think that illegals that foist their way into the voting booth, sit there and think: "It's not my place to increase the tax burden on others, so I will vote against the healthcare benefits for illegal aliens."?  Heck, no!

Vote for what you believe in.  God knows, the other guy will vote for what he believes in.

Unless you don't believe in anything.

[Gowen]

I have to wonder about a few of your statements.
Are you saying the majority of these abortions would turn out to be non-welfare good upstanding citizens?

I ask because the last time I did a yearly refrigeration inspection at a planned parenthood place most of the young ladies in there didn't give me the married in a good home feeling.

jim

Wooa, don't tell me you are taking the Margaret Sanger view?  I don't care about someone's parentage, they deserve the right to life.  Many, many fine upstanding people came from a single mother, these people were adopted out:

http://www.adoptionopen.com/famousadoptions.html

Alexander the Great - King of Macedonia, 356-323 B.C.
Andy Berlin - entrepreneur: chairman of Belin Cameron & Partners
Anthony Williams - politician
Aristotle - philosopher
Art Linkletter - comedian
Bo Diddley - musician, performer
Brent Jasmer - actor
Buffy Sainte-Marie - musician, actress
Carl Theodor Dreyer - Danish film director
Charles Dickens - writer
Charlotte Anne Lopez - Miss Teen USA
Christina Crawford - author
Clarissa Pinkola Estes - author
Crazy Horse - Lakota war chief
Dan O'Brien - decathlete
Daunte Culpepper - football player
Dave Thomas - entrepreneur: founder of Wendy's
Debbi Harry - singer
Edgar Allen Poe - poet, writer
Edward Albee - playwright
Eleanor Roosevelt - First Lady
Eric Dickerson - athlete
Faith Daniels - news anchor
Faith Hill - country singer
Freddie Bartholomew - actor
Gary Coleman - actor
George Washington Carver - inventor
Greg Louganis - diver
Halle Berry - actress
Ingrid Bergman - actress
James McArthur - actor
James Michener - author
Jean Jacques Rousseau - philosopher
Jesse Jackson - minister
Jesus - adopted by Joseph the carpenter (Bible)
Jett Williams - country singer and author
Jim Palmer - athlete
John J. Audubon - naturalist
John Lennon - musician
Langston Hughes - poet and writer
Larry Ellison - entrepreneur: chief executive of Oracle
Leo Tolstoy - writer
Les Brown - motivational speaker
Louisa May Alcott - writer
Lynnette Cole - Miss USA 2000
Malcolm X - civil rights leader
Marilyn Monroe - actress
Mark Acre - athlete
Mark Twain - writer
Matthew Laborteaux - actor
Melissa Gilbert - actress
Michael Reagan - dancer
Moses - adopted by the princess of Egypt (Bible)
Moses - Biblical leader
Nancy Reagan - First Lady
Nat King Cole - singer
Nelson Mandela - politician
Patrick Laborteaux - actor
Peter and Kitty Carruthers - figure skaters
President Gerald Ford - politician
President Gerald R. Ford - adopted by step-father
President William Clinton - politician
Priscilla Presley - actress
Ray Liotta - actor
Reno - performance artist, comedian
Rep. Jim Lightfoot - politician
Richard Burton - actor
Sara Gilbert - actress
Sarah McLachlan - singer
Scott Hamilton - figure skater
Sen. Paull H. Shin - politician
Sen. Robert Byrd - politician
Shari Belafonte-Harper - actress
Steve Jobs - entrepreneur: co-founder of Apple computer
Surya Bonaly - figure skater
Tim Green - football player/commentator
Tom Monaghan - entrepreneur
Tommy Davidson - comedian
Victoria Rowell - actress
Wilson Riles - educator
 

Who's to say your planned parenthood mother isn't aborting the person who finds a cure for cancer, aids or becomes a President.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Isn't that the current legal standing on abortion. Or do these people want to decide what the specific circumstances are.

jim

No.  "Specific circumstances" in this context means instances where the pregnancy threatens the life of the mother or when the pregnancy is the result of rape, things like that.  It is distinctly different from the on-demand "kill the kid because he's inconvenient" universal legality of abortion.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Who's to say your planned parenthood mother isn't aborting the person who finds a cure for cancer, aids or becomes a President.

Don't know if it's true or not, but there's a story that Mother Theresa was once asked why God hadn't sent us a cure for cancer, why He doesn't care about so many of us dying.  She responded that we had probably aborted the person He sent to discover the cure.

[Balog]

Isn't that the current legal standing on abortion. Or do these people want to decide what the specific circumstances are.

jim

You have a very odd and wholly incorrect view of the current laws on abortion. Rape, incest, and life of the mother are what, %1 of all abortions? And really only serious danger to the life of the mother is valid; it's sad that you were raped but murdering your child is not a proper response.

[Jim147]

You have a very odd and wholly incorrect view of the current laws on abortion. Rape, incest, and life of the mother are what, %1 of all abortions? And really only serious danger to the life of the mother is valid; it's sad that you were raped but murdering your child is not a proper response.

My view may be odd but not incorrect. There are laws currently in place but they are very wide open.

Wooa, don't tell me you are taking the Margaret Sanger view?  I don't care about someone's parentage, they deserve the right to life.  Many, many fine upstanding people came from a single mother, these people were adopted out:

I'm not taking any view. I was making an observation. And I was wanting some more information on how everything would be so much better without abortion.
How are we sure we wouldn't have a whole new entitled generation?

And back to the OP. I don't think they need an R or a D by their name to be deluded.

jim

jim

[Monkeyleg]

There's this thing called "the base," and both parties have it. A huge percentage of the Republican base are fervent believers in the right to life. Republicans cannot win without them.

It makes no more sense to try to sidestep the abortion issue than it does gun control, as there are many abortion opponents who are one-issue voters just as I'm a one-issue voter on gun control.

[zahc]

Vote for what you believe in.  God knows, the other guy will vote for what he believes in.

Unless you don't believe in anything.

Say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.

[Balog]

My view may be odd but not incorrect. There are laws currently in place but they are very wide open.


jim

Umm, no. There are minimum age requirements in some states, but that's it. "Illegal with some exceptions" is in now way comparable to "be over X age."

[Perd Hapley]

Lot of the actions of the right wing conservatives have really almost made want to quit the republican party. 

Go ahead and quit.  If you can't manage to defend basic human rights (such as the right to life) then get out of my party.  The sooner the better. 

[MicroBalrog]

Go ahead and quit.  If you can't manage to defend basic human rights (such as the right to life) then get out of my party.  The sooner the better. 

Do you seriously think that anybody who holds views on abortion other than 'ban it entirely' must be evicted/excluded from GOP circles?

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Do you seriously think that anybody who holds views on abortion other than 'ban it entirely' must be evicted/excluded from GOP circles?

Must they be excluded?  No, probably not.  Should they be?  Yeah, I think so. 

I suppose if they can keep their mouth shut about it and focus on other issues it wouldn't be a problem.  But what's the point of having a party if you can't use it to advance rights?  They should join the Democrats if they don't care about individual rights and think government oughta destroy peoples lives.

[MicroBalrog]

I believe it can be very reasonably argued that seriously early-stage foetuses (blastocyst) are not really human beings. Moreover, even if they are, an argument for abortion can be made.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

That sounds like rationalizing murder to me.  "It isn't really a person, therefore I can kill it without remorse."

I don't buy it.

Eh.  Ya know, this isn't really the place to get into an argument about abortion.  Let's not drag this one any farther off topic than we already have.

[Boomhauer]

This thread is going nowhere fast with the abortion discussion...

[Ron]

Go ahead and quit.  If you can't manage to defend basic human rights (such as the right to life) then get out of my party.  The sooner the better. 

fistful beat me to it, good riddance.

Life, Liberty and Property.

Governments role is to protect the right to these three pillars of civil society.

[charby]

fistful beat me to it, good riddance.

Life, Liberty and Property.

Governments role is to protect the right to these three pillars of civil society.

So making abortion illegal is protecting life? What about the potential uprising of back alley abortions and other medical quackery that may come about from people who think they have no other place to turn?

Like I said earlier I personally am against abortion, but I don't think it should be made illegal.

Also why are people who are against abortion, pro death penalty?

[RocketMan]

Gentlemen, this thread is way off target.  Now, back to the original discussion, are the Democrats really this deluded?

Thread lock in ...3...2...1

[charby]

Gentlemen, this thread is way off target.  Now, back to the original discussion, are the Democrats really this deluded?

Thread lock in ...3...2...1

Both parties are.

[RocketMan]

Both parties are.

I agree.  And they are deluded about many different things.  To the point where they don't represent their members all that well any longer.
What was it that has been said of the Repubican Party?  "I didn't leave the Republican Party, the Republican Party left me."
Are the Dems saying something similar amongst themselves right now, I wonder?

[Jim147]

This thread is going nowhere fast with the abortion discussion...

They never do in this setting. Which is sad.
I don't understand why it is so hard to see how RKBA and abortion are intertwined. I know someone will say RKBA is in the Constitution but abortion is not, but then I'll here someone say the Founding Father's wrote all men are created equal. And that includes babies. But if you look at it. All men at the time did not not include all men or women and children. All men meant some men. So now we have to look at the wording in the second amendment. Does it mean what it says? Or what you or someone else wants it to?
If you want to debate for or against anything you need to make sure you know what you are talking about.
I know you know where you stand. But make sure you don't look like the anti going on about assault weapons and cop killer bullets that has no clue what he is talking about. He is just telling you where he stands. He just looks like a fool doing it.


I'm not here to start a pissing match with anyone, but the laws are more defined then age. In some cases age does not matter. Please research the laws before you tell me I am wrong.

pm me if you want a pissing match. It doesn't belong here.

jim

[KD5NRH]

Wow! 22% who want  abortion completly illegal is now a majority.

Politicians are often elected by less than ten percent of the eligible voters in their district, so if you can actually get 22% of voters to the polls on any one issue, you'll have a landslide in most elections.

Actual majority doesn't matter: it's how many actually do something about their beliefs that determines everything.