Author Topic: Unions Get Backroom Deal on Health Care  (Read 13128 times)

Ben

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Unions Get Backroom Deal on Health Care
« on: January 15, 2010, 09:53:53 PM »
Looks like Unions got a special exemption from the "Cadillac" health care tax in a backroom deal. Why are more people not up in freakin' arms over this??

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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/01/15/democrats-hammered-room-deal-unions-health-care/

Democrats Hammered for 'Back-Room' Deal With Unions on Health Care

In pushing a giant step closer to a health care reform deal, Democratic leaders are once again drawing fire from their critics for extending special treatment to an interest group in exchange for its support of the bill.

In pushing a giant step closer to a health care reform deal, Democratic leaders are once again drawing fire from their critics for extending special treatment to an interest group in exchange for its support of the bill.

The latest deal was struck Thursday among the White House, Congress and union leaders over the proposed tax on high-value "Cadillac" health insurance plans."

Unions had objected strongly to the proposed tax on high-value insurance policies, fearing it would hurt their members, and they won several concessions from the administration. Under the deal, if it becomes law, union workers will be shielded from the 40 percent tax for five years -- until 2018. The threshold for the tax also was raised so that it will kick in for plans worth $24,000 instead of $23,000. And dental and vision coverage will not count toward that threshold.

But what about everybody else?

The unions, traditional supporters of the Democratic Party and a major factor in Obama's political infrastructure, got a deal, but Republicans said that non-union workers will still have to pay the tax from the get-go starting in 2013.

"I guess this bill is only good if it doesn't apply to you," GOPAC Chairman Frank Donatelli said.

"Millions of non-union workers ... would be forced to pay higher taxes for the same benefits their union counterparts" receive, Republicans on the House Ways and Means Committee said in a written statement.

The deal also leaves a $60 billion hole in the projected revenue stream, meaning Democrats will have to find the money elsewhere if they want to meet Obama's pledge to keep health care reform deficit-neutral.

"There's a $60 billion hole now in the legislation," Democratic strategist Doug Schoen said. "Not sure it's fair, not sure it's paid for."

Neither union leaders nor the White House offered any specifics on where that money would come from.

Lawmakers, though, have been considering applying Medicare payroll taxes to capital gains and other dividend incomes above $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for families.

Critics of the legislation called the union deal another back-room favor handed out in secret talks that violated Obama's promise of transparency. They say special treatment has gone to interests ranging from the pharmaceutical industry to the state of Nebraska, which was offered extra federal funding for Medicaid patients in exchange for moderate Sen. Ben Nelson's support.

"If this bill is so good, why does everyone need an exemption in order to vote for it? ... We see the drug companies get a special deal. We see what happened in Louisiana and most notoriously Nebraska in the Senate where they got special deals. And now the unions get a special deal." Donatelli said.

"This union kickback is the latest in a long line of back-room pay-offs and sweetheart deals on a health care bill that the American people overwhelmingly do not support," Michael Steel, a spokesman for House Minority Leader John Boehner, said in an e-mail Friday.

But the White House trumpeted the "solid progress" it was making toward a final package.

Obama held a meeting with House and Senate Democratic leaders late into the night Thursday to discuss the apparent breakthrough.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said on Friday that her members, who were fiercely opposed to the earlier version of the Senate bill's "Cadillac" tax, liked what they saw in the union compromise.

"We are very optimistic" that common ground will be found on other issues, she said.

Gerald McEntee, president of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, said his workers were "very pleased" by the deal.

"They're ready to go out and fight for it and even improve it down line. We're for this health care reform and ready to fight for it."

AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka called the agreement the biggest hurdle for union support. Absent any last minute changes, he said the AFL-CIO's on board.

"We will endorse it and do it proudly," Trumka said of the emerging health care bill.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

grampster

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Re: Unions Get Backroom Deal on Health Care
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2010, 10:07:56 PM »
It's time for all of you to do what Newt advises.  Send e mails to all of your reps and senators.

Say only one thing. 2+2=4 and sign your name and address.
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Sergeant Bob

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Re: Unions Get Backroom Deal on Health Care
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2010, 10:51:37 PM »
Gotta say one thing about those Progressive scumbags, they deal right off the top of the deck. It's just a sad state of affairs when they can be so brazen as to be willing to do almost anything to advance their agenda and don't care who see's how they do it.
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Unions Get Backroom Deal on Health Care
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2010, 10:51:52 PM »
Who says we're not outraged?

I'm appalled that they think they can tax people for choosing not to be in a union.

Northwoods

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Re: Unions Get Backroom Deal on Health Care
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2010, 10:58:23 PM »
Seems like it might be a good potential for an equal protection lawsuit.
Formerly sumpnz

Monkeyleg

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Re: Unions Get Backroom Deal on Health Care
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2010, 10:59:30 PM »
This bill is good for many, many lawsuits. I only wish those pushing it could do jail time.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Unions Get Backroom Deal on Health Care
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2010, 11:04:28 PM »
All the courts would do is strip out minor portions of the bill, while leaving it mostly intact.  At best all they'd do is nibble around the edges a bit.

roo_ster

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Re: Unions Get Backroom Deal on Health Care
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2010, 11:21:36 PM »
What does it mean when I read the topic and would have sworn it was:
Unicorns Get Backroom Deal on Health Care

I thought someone was posting something from the Onion.
Regards,

roo_ster

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Ben

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Re: Unions Get Backroom Deal on Health Care
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2010, 11:28:56 PM »
I would have preferred unicorns getting the backroom deal...
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Monkeyleg

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Re: Unions Get Backroom Deal on Health Care
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2010, 11:44:27 PM »
Quote
All the courts would do is strip out minor portions of the bill, while leaving it mostly intact.

I don't know about that. Requiring citizens to buy something is pretty blatant, and the money from that requirement is needed to sustain the plan. I would think that even a wise Latina would find it hard to justify making people buy something whether they want it or not.

drewtam

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Re: Unions Get Backroom Deal on Health Care
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2010, 11:55:42 PM »
That seems like a stretch.

I must buy roads whether I want them or not.
I must buy k-12 school whether I want it or not.
I must buy car insurance whether I want it or not.

I fail to see how this is different.
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longeyes

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Re: Unions Get Backroom Deal on Health Care
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2010, 12:11:32 AM »
The Great Uniter is hell-bent on driving wedges, creating Two Americas.  I'm sure he'll get his wish.

And people ARE up in arms, more every day.
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RevDisk

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Re: Unions Get Backroom Deal on Health Care
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2010, 12:13:18 AM »
Gerald McEntee, president of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, said his workers were "very pleased" by the deal.

"They're ready to go out and fight for it and even improve it down line. We're for this health care reform and ready to fight for it."

FYI, AFSCME has probably cost the taxpayer more money poured down a drain than any single source.  If you wondered why the nonfederal government is as inefficient and wasteful as it is, thank AFSCME for it.  Wish my state would be kind enough to ban it from all of Pennsylvania.
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Unions Get Backroom Deal on Health Care
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2010, 12:23:21 AM »
That seems like a stretch.

I must buy roads whether I want them or not.
I must buy k-12 school whether I want it or not.
I must buy car insurance whether I want it or not.

I fail to see how this is different.

You're talking about taxes for roads and schools, not a consumer product.

You do not have to buy car insurance if you don't drive or own a car. But you would be forced to buy health insurance merely by virtue of your existence. If the courts rule that the government can force you to buy health insurance whether you want it or not, why can the government not force you to buy a car made by Obama Motors?

RevDisk

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Re: Unions Get Backroom Deal on Health Care
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2010, 12:27:59 AM »
That seems like a stretch.

I must buy roads whether I want them or not.
I must buy k-12 school whether I want it or not.
I must buy car insurance whether I want it or not.

I fail to see how this is different.

None of those are taxes on existence.  They are taxes on behavior or property.   Your roads come from state/local income taxes and theoretically from a sin tax on gas.  Your K-12 school tax is on your property.   Car insurance is only required if you wish to operate a car on government property.

Health insurance tax/fines will be a tax on you sucking oxygen.  That's a new one.  I'm not familiar with any other 'being alive' tax. 
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Unions Get Backroom Deal on Health Care
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2010, 12:45:20 AM »
We have a "death tax," but that's a tax on the stuff you have left when you die. There is no tax for becoming dead (although we shouldn't give these folks ideas).

FTA84

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Re: Unions Get Backroom Deal on Health Care
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2010, 01:03:38 AM »
I think more people aren't (visibly) upset because they know this thing has been backroom deals from the get go.  The insurance mandate, IIRC, was the only way to get the insurance companies to support reform.  Rinse and repeat.




MicroBalrog

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Re: Unions Get Backroom Deal on Health Care
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2010, 04:52:40 AM »
That seems like a stretch.

I must buy roads whether I want them or not.
I must buy k-12 school whether I want it or not.
I must buy car insurance whether I want it or not.

I fail to see how this is different.

Because compulsory government schooling is entirely awesome and non-socialist. No sirree Bob.
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Ben

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Re: Unions Get Backroom Deal on Health Care
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2010, 10:29:15 AM »
Quote
I must buy roads whether I want them or not.
To me the current deal is more like we all had to buy the road, but unions members don't have to stop at the tollbooth to use it like the rest of us do.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

209

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Re: Unions Get Backroom Deal on Health Care
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2010, 11:04:01 AM »
There is an interesting article on using the equal protection clause to fight this.  I don't remember where I saw it, but I'll see if I can find it again.  I'm in a union and probably have what they consider a Cadillac health plan.  And I don't know if my union is part of the agreement. But, this agreement is wrong and it's probably unconstitutional to boot.  And it won't save me.  In the end, I'm just as screwed as every other working person.  This bill has a large footprint.  It's going to hit every taxpayer hard.  We'll end up paying ridiculous amount of our income for a plan that ultimately reduces our quality of care. Pay more for less- what's not to like about that plan?  ???

But, in the long term, the joke may be on the unions as I saw something else that says the exemption expires in a few years.  Won't all of the union members who blindly follow their reps be surprised when that happens?  

It's another example of the union bosses kissing up to the politicians and politicians kissing up to the unions for votes.  Each side does what they think will best help them.  When speaking of the union side, , I mean the union bosses.  The average union member is usually not part of the sweetheart deal and isn't usually that better off when one is made.  The union bosses and the politicians on the other hand- well, they do great.

One of these days, I'll rant about my view of unions.  Being in one isn't all it's cracked up to be and frequently the union makes deals that are counter-productive to the members.  Kind of like what politicians do after we elect them.

Tangled webs....
 
« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 11:17:32 AM by 209 »

sanglant

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Re: Unions Get Backroom Deal on Health Care
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2010, 11:23:08 AM »
This bill is good for many, many lawsuits. I only wish those pushing it could do jail time.
last i checked the punishment for t... [tinfoil]

There is an interesting article on using the equal protection clause to fight this. I don't remember where I saw it, but I'll see if I can find it again.

that was my first thought when i heard this, i'm looking forward to that link. hope you can find it, lately i can't find any of my old links. it's almost like there being taking down or something. =|

Ben

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Re: Unions Get Backroom Deal on Health Care
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2010, 11:34:29 AM »
Quote
It's another example of the union bosses kissing up to the politicians and politicians kissing up to the unions for votes.  Each side does what they think will best help them.  When speaking of the union side, , I mean the union bosses.  The average union member is usually not part of the sweetheart deal and isn't usually that better off when one is made.  The union bosses and the politicians on the other hand- well, they do great.

I used to be in a public employees union when I worked for a county government. I agree with you completely. Just before every election, the union rep would come out to field sites to tell us who we were supposed to vote for. It was almost always the candidates that we, as run of the mill members, had already had discussions on and had decided would be who we WOULDN'T vote for. Of course we always made those decisions based on how things would affect us away from work, and not just at the workplace.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

zahc

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Re: Unions Get Backroom Deal on Health Care
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2010, 02:48:07 PM »
Quote
Your roads come from state/local income taxes and theoretically from a sin tax on gas.  Your K-12 school tax is on your property.

And, both of these can be foot-voted against, thus providing some incentive for localities to use reason when setting the rates. Is that dynamic going to be in place with Obamacare? I suppose you could move to another country. Or to Texas after they get around to seceding.
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: Unions Get Backroom Deal on Health Care
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2010, 04:24:01 PM »
Local union thug lays down their basic argument.

We control the .gov and set the rules so quit complaining and fall in line.

http://www.adn.com/opinion/letters/story/1095838.html

Quote
Want health care? Join a union

In "Backroom health deals hurts contractors" (Jan. 12), Rebecca Logan appears to have answered her own question about portability of heath care benefits. She bemoans the fact that large employers and unions are able to join together for portability of health care benefits while contractors are left out in the cold.

Well, Rebecca, as the president and CEO of Associated Builders and Contractors, you should encourage your members to join unions for access to health care portability. Along with that, there will be other benefits such as pension portability and quality of life portability.

But, as usual, the small business community will probably just complain about how unfair everything is and continue to work to put more money in their own pockets, balanced as always on the backs of their employees.

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Re: Unions Get Backroom Deal on Health Care
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2010, 05:53:14 PM »
Quote
But, as usual, the small business community will probably just complain about how unfair everything is and continue to work to put more money in their own pockets, balanced as always on the backs of their employees.

-- Sam Rouse

Anchorage

BWWWAAAAHAAAHAAHAHAHAAA!!!  ;/ =D

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Neither was I when I worked at any of them--but to be honest, it was never really about the money.   =)
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