Lawmakers Push to Protect Power Grid

[Ben]

What I found the most interesting in this story was the report of the California event. Maybe we talked about it here, but I can't for the life of me remember it. I don't believe it was any kind of a "big story" in CA either, which also surprised me as it also seems to fit CA's anti-gun agenda, so win-win for "safety first" statists.

It also once again seems to show that the Al Qaeda terrorists are not the masterminds many conservative politicians (I'm looking at you Peter King, you fearmonger) make them out to be, because they seem to be missing many "easy" targets like this (the story indicates it was not Al Qaeda).

This is not to say that I believe our power grid is not vulnerable, I believe it is very vulnerable. I'm not sure what steps can be taken that don't involve more "for your safety" reductions in our freedoms.

Side note, how did Waxman know the weapons were "military style"? The story seems to indicate no one has been caught. Even if they found brass, how do we know it didn't come out of "pappy's huntin' rifle"?


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/02/07/lawmakers-push-to-protect-electric-grid-after-report-on-attack/

[MillCreek]

There was a far more detailed article in the WSJ.  The brass was identified as from an AK-47, according to the article.  It goes into some detail as to the planning and execution of the attack, which makes people concerned as to it being carried out by people who knew what they were doing.

[AZRedhawk44]

Side note, how did Waxman know the weapons were "military style"? The story seems to indicate no one has been caught. Even if they found brass, how do we know it didn't come out of "pappy's huntin' rifle"?

100 rounds from a bolt gun will take quite a while.  Probably an AR, if .223.  If x39, it most likely wasn't a CZ bolt action.  

Regardless, the extraction stroke will typically result in a dented case mouth if fired from a semiautomatic rifle.  And extractor marks are more prominent in semiauto fired brass, than in manual action rifles.


WTF are more laws going to do to improve this, other than jack up the cost of electricity since more taxes or overall costs will just be passed to the consumer in their bill?  Best resolution to this problem isn't attempting to beef up resiliency at unmanned distro stations.  Best resolution is greater decentralization and encouraging people to solar-up their rooftops.  Then those distro stations become less important to the grid.

But, you know the "resolution" will just be to add a layer of AR500 to the critical equipment at distro stations, and these same guys (or similar ones) will just switch to molotov cocktails and cook the transformers rather than shooting them.

[KD5NRH]

100 rounds from a bolt gun will take quite a while.  Probably an AR, if .223.  If x39, it most likely wasn't a CZ bolt action.  

The article says more than 100 rounds in 19 minutes.  I can do that with a rolling block.  Heck, with paper cartridges, I could probably do that with a flintlock.

[Tallpine]

The real question they should investigate is where did the terrists find 100 rounds of ammo to buy?      

[Ben]

Ah, sorry, the WSJ link asked me to login, so I didn't read that article. A hundred rounds in 20 minutes though, seems like though this was planned, they weren't all that sophisticated, as it seems they may have been "hunting and pecking" for a vulnerable piece of infrastructure.

Regardless, I agree with AZ on more decentralization and redundancy being a better answer than more security. I've told the story a hundred times here, but during the Northridge, CA earthquake, I was without power for several days because of a node outage 100 miles away.

[cordex]

I've told the story a hundred times here, but during the Northridge, CA earthquake, I was without power for several days because of a node outage 100 miles away.

Interesting. Where were you?  I was in Pasadena at the time and I don't recall losing power. In fact, I remember watching my computer monitor (which was mounted on one of those goofy adjustable arms) bounce during some of the aftershocks.

[Brad Johnson]

The "attack" Sounds more like a couple of drunk hillbillies with a rifle, just enough knowledge to be dangerous, and too much free time.

Brad

[Ben]

Interesting. Where were you?  I was in Pasadena at the time and I don't recall losing power. In fact, I remember watching my computer monitor (which was mounted on one of those goofy adjustable arms) bounce during some of the aftershocks.

I was in Ventura. From what I remember, apparently a good portion of the city got power from a node somewhere in West LA county, and when that went out, it created a cascade that the substations couldn't keep up with. It was an unexpected wake-up call in preparedness, as we had very little damage, but were affected by something a good ways away. I think it was like a day and a half of no power, and then on and off for another day or two until everything was fixed.  I was barbequing a lot.  

[makattak]

The "attack" Sounds more like a couple of drunk hillbillies with a rifle, just enough knowledge to be dangerous, and too much free time.

Brad

Except for the cutting of the wires in the substation before the attack.

My guess is this was a "feeler" attack to assess vulnerabilities. We may have just answered their question very publicly.

[Tallpine]

Except for the cutting of the wires in the substation before the attack.

My guess is this was a "feeler" attack to assess vulnerabilities. We may have just answered their question very publicly.

It's been obvious to me for a long time ... 

[fifth_column]

Except for the cutting of the wires in the substation before the attack.

My guess is this was a "feeler" attack to assess vulnerabilities. We may have just answered their question very publicly.

And it seems likely the legislation will do little more than highlight the most vulnerable parts of the infrastructure.

[AZRedhawk44]

Maybe if California had a large population of people that enjoyed going out in rural remote areas... doing things like hunting, practicing marksmanship, hiking, backpacking, ATV/dirtbiking and so on... bad people wouldn't feel so confident in doing things like this?

Nah... that whole 2A thing doesn't have any bearing here at all.  Go ahead and ban more guns in California.  Make the legislative environment that much more hostile to self-reliant and self-responsible people so they don't even want to live in your State.  Increase taxes so people can't afford toys like RV's and dirtbikes. 

That'll increase your rural security around remote power distribution centers, for sure.


(Chances of something like attack this happening in AZ are practically nil.  It's "possible," but sustained gunfire for 10-20 minutes in a place that isn't typically a desert plinking pit tends to get investigated... either by the good old boys, or by a call to the local Sheriff's office.)

[Ben]

Maybe if California had a large population of people that enjoyed going out in rural remote areas... doing things like hunting, practicing marksmanship, hiking, backpacking, ATV/dirtbiking and so on... bad people wouldn't feel so confident in doing things like this?

I think everyone knows I am no fan of my home state these days, but I would hazard to guess that there are few million more people doing these things in CA than in AZ, even with the drop in hunting over the last twenty years. There are still a ton of gunowners here, and certainly with a population of 38 million, more people hike and backpack here than in possibly any other state. Even with that,  I can still go and camp or hike in all kinds of areas in CA and not see anyone all day or all weekend. I also wouldn't have cell phone coverage to call 911. Even if a remote substation had realtime video surveillance, it could still take a Sheriff's deputy easily twenty minutes to get there.

If I were near a substation and heard shooting, not knowing what was going on, or even if I saw people shooting at the substation,  I wouldn't be in a hurry to run into a basically unknown situation with guns blazing.

[AZRedhawk44]

Ben, CA is a lot bigger than AZ.  I bet you a shiny nickle that the ratio of outdoors-oriented people per square mile is a lot lower there.

And I never advocated going in "guns blazing."  The number of people who can competently shoot from more than 500 yards away is pretty small.  I'd be perfectly comfortable sneaking up to within half a mile of someone doing something suspicious with a rifle and getting a better idea of what's going on.

If I saw several middle eastern men shooting up an electrical substation... who knows?  I might intervene forcibly.  I know that I can make that shot from 600+ yards a lot more competently than 99.9% of people out there.  If the substation was visibly on fire as a result of the damage (that electrolytic fluid is flammable, and plenty of sources for sparks), I probably would.  Henry Bowman's teenage rape intervention comes to mind.  If it can be done and never talked about afterwards and no evidence left... no problem with it.

[brimic]

Those substations are pretty vulnerable.
A few teams of people hitting different substations at the same time with .50BMGs could take down a significant portion of the grid if they know what they are doing- and it doesn't take a lot of shooting- punch a few holes in the colling jackets of the transformers and walk away.

About a decade ago, they arrested an eco-nut in my state for similar attacks on the power grid- he simply took loops of cable and chucked them over the fence so they landed on top of the transformers, iirc, he pretty much operated only in rural areas though.

[makattak]

Those substations are pretty vulnerable.
A few teams of people hitting different substations at the same time with .50BMGs could take down a significant portion of the grid if they know what they are doing- and it doesn't take a lot of shooting- punch a few holes in the colling jackets of the transformers and walk away.

About a decade ago, they arrested an eco-nut in my state for similar attacks on the power grid- he simply took loops of cable and chucked them over the fence so they landed on top of the transformers, iirc, he pretty much operated only in rural areas though.

Obviously from the article, they won't even need .50 caliber. An underpowered intermediate caliber is more than sufficient.

(If they were smart, they'd be using 30/30, but maybe they prefer a manual of arms they are familiar with.)

[KD5NRH]

About a decade ago, they arrested an eco-nut in my state for similar attacks on the power grid- he simply took loops of cable and chucked them over the fence so they landed on top of the transformers, iirc, he pretty much operated only in rural areas though.

This; gun regulation won't help if any idiot with a fiberglass pole, a length of wire, and some fly casting practice can do just as much damage.

[Ben]

This; gun regulation won't help if any idiot with a fiberglass pole, a length of wire, and some fly casting practice can do just as much damage.

Indeed. I'm guessing that the accidental release of Mylar balloons has caused a good number more power outages than all the bullets ever fired.

[Tallpine]

If they were smart, they'd be using 30/30

fifty caliber patched ball 

[Gewehr98]

Wait, I thought AKs were illegal in Kalifornia?

Maybe it was an SKS.

Or a VZ-52/57 SHE.

Or a Mini-30.

AKs sound evil, though, so an AK it is!   


Aluminum foil chaff at a substation for the win.  It's how we took out Saddam's power grid.

[Scout26]

Sssssshhhhhh, you're giving away military secrets and helping the turrrrrrrrists win.

 

[Regolith]

fifty caliber patched ball 

Or just 12 gauge slugs. That's .710 caliber right there.

Or 00 buckshot. 9 .33 caliber holes per shot. Fire 11 rounds and you've got more holes than emptying 3 AK mags.

[French G.]

Pretty sure the latest power bomb tech is graphite fiber. That'd be a mess. Here's a fun thing I confirmed recently, I wondered if transformer oil was still full of PCBs. I'm guessing yep now. Local substation went up in smoke last summer. Construction work on that thing took six months to replace one transformer. Everything got dug up.

[geronimotwo]

the power grid will always be vulnerable.  firearms are not the biggest threat, anyone with an acetylene torch could shut a high tension line.