Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: MillCreek on December 02, 2018, 02:36:02 AM
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https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2018/12/01/36495771/the-rise-of-seattles-tiny-apartments-and-the-needed-death-of-the-private-kitchen
I simply could not live on a diet of restaurants, takeout food and food zapped in the microwave. The comments in the article are great.
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Y’all know how to grow the whackjobs up there...
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If I were single, I could easily live on what I make in a toaster oven and an electric griddle.
Add a single electric burner and I'd have more than plenty.
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If I were single, I could easily live on what I make in a toaster oven and an electric griddle.
Add a single electric burner and I'd have more than plenty.
When I moved out I had a hot plate, a toaster oven, an electric skillet and a dorm fridge. Oh and a crock pot. Worked fine for a year.
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the author came up with an endgame, and then wrote an article that supported it.
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Kitchens for me but not for thee.
This article advocates modeling cities on the rat utopia model.
The author is probably what we used to call a communist.
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The second half of the first paragraph was not needed. From this, I decided this was a "column inch" article I would not enjoy.
And yes, use of the term "capitalocene" indicates a distinct Leftist attitude, and I would be comfortable calling him a Communist.
By extension, I suppose his thesis could be expanded to all of us living in prison-cell-like-dwellings: Bed, sink, potty, small shelf, and that's that. Except the Commisssars and --dare I say it? --the Gauleiters.
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Yeah, he's a big time commie.
The private kitchen is a monster of waste. Among other things, it occludes the relationship between what is wanted and not wanted. In an isolated kitchen, all that is not wanted simply ends up in the bin. Also, it is stupid that every apartment or house prepares its own meal for its own consumption. It doesn't take much thinking to appreciate this fact. Living in the capitalocene city will mean more of our daily activities occur in public or communal spaces.
I was just thinking the other day how much, since I have retired, that I have enjoyed cooking and baking more and more. I'm at a point where I enjoy my own food much, much more than food in any restaurant. Not that I don't enjoy going out once in a while, but I like home cookin' way more.
Also of note is that contrary to the article, more and more home designs are open and centered on the kitchen. In fact some commie-pinko universities did some studies showing that the kitchen is the center of most homes, based on traffic and where people spend the most time. So he's being contrary to his fellow commies.
The zoning is interesting. When I was still looking in Idaho, I was looking into 90 acres that had a very old two bedroom home on it. I went to the county planning dept to discuss remodeling it as a guest house and building a new house next to it. The whole sticking point on that, given there was only one building permit, was the kitchen. The planner told me that if I removed the kitchen appliances, it could then be "reclassified" from a home to an "office" or "storeroom" or whatever I wanted. I could even keep the bathroom and the kitchen sink. Then I could build a new place next to it. As long as it had a "kitchen" though, it was a house.
EDIT: Yes, the comments are awesome. It's fun trying to figure out which ones are sarcasm and which are serious. :laugh:
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this line "And here we see something wrong (the production of affordable housing by the private sector)" colored the rest of the article & convinced me he's a Communist. (I meant that capitol C)
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Once "they" have eliminated private kitchens, the logical next step is to eliminate private bathrooms. So either we'll be living in dormitory-like accomodations with the toilet and shower rooms shared communally, or there won't be a bathroom per se but just a stainless steel combo toilet and sink in a corner of the bedroom -- like in a jail cell.
The national model building codes consider a "dwelling unit" to be a space that
DWELLING UNIT. A single unit providing complete, independent
living facilities for one or more persons, including
permanent provisions for living, sleeping, eating, cooking
and sanitation.
If you eliminate the kitchen, you no longer have a "dwelling unit" under the building codes, you now have only a "sleeping unit" -- i.e. a hotel or boarding house.
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The national model building codes consider a "dwelling unit" to be a space that
If you eliminate the kitchen, you no longer have a "dwelling unit" under the building codes, you now have only a "sleeping unit" -- i.e. a hotel or boarding house.
Ah, interesting. That makes sense given the planner also told me I could keep the kitchen if I were to build a new home, but "attach" it to the old one via a breezeway.
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Ah, interesting. That makes sense given the planner also told me I could keep the kitchen if I were to build a new home, but "attach" it to the old one via a breezeway.
That came up when I was working as an assistant building inspector in a small, "bedroom" municipality. A family wanted to do a mother-in-law apartment in their basement, which had a separate, outside entrance. After consulting with the state agency that issues our state's building code, we came to the conclusion that there's nothing in the building code that prohibits one dwelling unit from having two kitchens. (Just as there's nothing that prohibits a house from having multiple bathrooms.)
Zoning may have other definitions. At least here, zoning regulations and enforcement are entirely separate from building code regulations and enforcement.
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That came up when I was working as an assistant building inspector in a small, "bedroom" municipality. A family wanted to do a mother-in-law apartment in their basement, which had a separate, outside entrance. After consulting with the state agency that issues our state's building code, we came to the conclusion that there's nothing in the building code that prohibits one dwelling unit from having two kitches. (Just as there's nothing that prohibits a house from having multiple bathrooms.)
Zoning may have other definitions. At least here, zoning regulations and enforcement are entirely separate from building code regulations and enforcement.
One of the cool things in Idaho is that for elder care, they will let you place a manufactured home on the property regardless of building permits (at least in the counties vs the cities), as "emergency housing". As long as it's not on a permanent foundation, you could put one on your property for an elder in their 60s, and if they live to 90, no problem. You just have to remove it after they pass.
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I'm kind of on the fence about the idea of apartment buildings with communal kitchens.
Oh, the article is full on commie dreke, but the actual selling points for such apartments could still be there.
I certainly wouldn't want to live in such a place, but I can see the appeal for people who don't cook (or can't cook) and need, at most, a sink, a mini fridge and a few small kitchen gadgets (microwave, toaster and coffee maker) and would rather have the space for other stuff.
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What was that creepy, communist book about the utopia where all the children were raised in common? Walden II?
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Yeah, he's a big time commie.
I was just thinking the other day how much, since I have retired, that I have enjoyed cooking and baking more and more. I'm at a point where I enjoy my own food much, much more than food in any restaurant. Not that I don't enjoy going out once in a while, but I like home cookin' way more.
I'm this side of well off, and my wife and I agree with you. Would rather cook and have leftovers for a few days than go out. Any place that's reasonably priced won't match up to home, and going to our favorites all the time would mean the were no longer a treat.
Goes double for when we had to actually budget meals. You have a much bigger incentive to learn how to cook tasty food if that's the only way you're going to eat tasty food.
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I certainly wouldn't want to live in such a place, but I can see the appeal for people who don't cook (or can't cook) and need, at most, a sink, a mini fridge and a few small kitchen gadgets (microwave, toaster and coffee maker) and would rather have the space for other stuff.
But you don't get the space for other stuff. The developer uses the space saved from multiple kitchens to squeeze in more small units that don't have kitchens. You lose, the developer wins.
Somewhere on the internet is an article about an American woman who spent some time in Japan. It showed photos of her tiny apartment. It was so small and so compact that when guests came, they had to sit on the floor. The bathroom was so small that the lavatory was on a hinge -- to use it, you had to swing it out over the water closet.
Thanks, but no thanks.
[Edit]It's on Youtube, and she's an Aussie, not an American: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsDZKCvpYL4
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The dorms I lived in for the first year of college were like that. Small rooms with a communal lounge/kitchen.
While it wasn't horrible it wouldn't be my choice. Maybe it would lower NYC/ San Francisco rents enough I wouldn't have to read whining editorials about "poverty wages".
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The dorms I lived in for the first year of college were like that. Small rooms with a communal lounge/kitchen.
While it wasn't horrible it wouldn't be my choice. Maybe it would lower NYC/ San Francisco rents enough I wouldn't have to read whining editorials about "poverty wages".
You'd need the kitchen to be professionally cleaned though, and frequently. When I was in the dorms, the communal kitchen was nearly always trashed so badly that I wasn't willing to cook there. And that was with daily cleanings!
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Several Stories.
In college, we always lived in an apartment or a house. The freezer was usually stuffed with various game meats. And since my roommate delivered pizzas, we did pretty well on the food front. In fact I frequently would prepare elaborate meals for my girlfriend (I really wish I could find my Chicken breasts in white wine sauce over a bed of sauteed root veggies (turnips, carrots, and parsnips...it was really good.)
Anyway, get to MPOB at McClellan. We were warned to stay out of the trainee areas, although they were crawling all over the PX. So we would eat either off-post at McD's or the like, Go to WOJO's (Warrant Officers/Junior Officers Club), which was bar food. Go over to the permanent party Mess Hall. Meals were generally $2-$4 depending, and fairly filling and over all pretty good. Or you could throw on your Class A's and go to the "real" Officers Club. Which I only did twice. Simply because LTC's and above love nothing more then to chat with junior officers as they are standing at the position of attention watching their food get cold. ;/ ;/
Get to Germany, unless we were traveling, we ate at home. (Since I was the Mess Officer I would eat one breakfast, one lunch, and one dinner there about one a week, just to make sure my soldiers were getting good grub.) I would also eat there on the weekends I had MPDO.
Amywho. after 3 years I'm due to get out in a few months. The now Ex- goes back to the states to get a job and an apartment, so when I get out we're both not broke and homeless at the same time.
The Army moves me out of married quarters and moves into the BOQ (Bachelor Officer Quarters) Okay, I got a couple of sinks (bathroom style), a crapper, and a tub/shower in the middle "room", living room in the "front" room, and bedroom in the back. I guess I can put the microwave on one of the dressers.
Take a couple days to get settled in, and discover that The Big Fancy Officer's Club (Had been Rommel's HQ when he was training the Afrika Korps there. It is the closest place to eat, but they are only open Friday Dinner until Sunday Dinner. And it's spendy. $10-$20 a person per meal (This is 1991 after all and as 1LT over four-E, I was making $2255/month).
All the headcount PV0's that were being "punished" by their 1SG's in 2/29FA and 2/68 Armor looked at me funny as I wasn't part of their unit, so why was I their mess line and trying to eat in their mess hall. And every single time they would have to stop the line, go find the Mess Sergeant who would have to take time out of his very busy day to explain to Private Numbnuts, that any officer can eat in any mess hall as long as they pay for their meal at whatever price the sheet said.
It got old very quickly and I got tired of making hungry soldiers wait, while PV0 Numbnuts was once again explained his job as headcount.
There was a Robin Hood (like a Subway) and a Burger King over across post by 4/29FA and the Mess Hall we used. So they "knew" me over there, but eating in the mess hall or the Fast Food Places all the time, especially ones where my soldiers hung out, was "awkward".
Or there was Jack Boys hot sandwiches and Pizza. The life blood of the CQ. The would also deliver to 8 digit grid coordinates out on the MTA.
Anyway, there were options, but all were going to be somewhat pricey if I ate out every meal. Even at the Mess Hall(s).
Anyway, go do some exploring in the Q after couple days, and discover that there's a stove (electric), but a real working stove, and kitchenette type table, in a small room, (think like a workplace break room) at the far end of the hall in the BOQs. YEAH !!!!
So, plan a few meals, and go hit the commissary, for ingredients. Nothing fancy just stuff I cook in a stove and on the range.
Grab my pots and pans, the ingredients, fire up the range, and the oven, and start cooking. Oops, I forgot something in my Q. Head back to my room(s). And suddenly all the doors in the hallway (about 7 total) suddenly slam close. Hmmm, that's odd. Get what I need, head back to the "kitchen". Ever get that feeling that folks are watching you ?? Yeah, I'd turn around , I could swear there 2-3 people peaking in the door watching me.
Anyway, after a while, it starts to smell really good. And they start to come in, even the guys on the second floor, and ask questions (#1 being, "Is there enough for me?")
Now, most of these guys a young LT's (we did have a Captain who we call the "Q Mommy"), and are all assigned to one of the maneuver battalions, so depending they could be at Graf or Hohenfels, or WildFlecken or even out on the MTA. Anyway I was the only officer that had a staff weenie job that didn't take me out to the field (Deputy Provost Marshal and Operations Officer). I worked 8-4 and out the door.
So what I did was agree to cook a couple meals each week. (Usually one or two week nights and then one or two weekend nights. If we knew that some was either doing a night shoot on range 32 or 35, or if the was and artillery night shoot, I would grill some steaks out back and we would watch the fireworks...) They'd give me cash for however many meals they'd be there for and I'd do all the shopping an cooking. I wasn't making gourmet meals, nut what could be called camp food. Good times, I really enjoyed it.
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I wonder if Charles thinks that its obscene that pretty much every journalist out there has their own MacBook Pro instead of using facilities at a local library. Maybe it's also obscene that everyone has their own pretty floral shirts, after all you can only wear one at a time. He writes like someone one who's never had his food pilfered from the break room fridge. I generally only cook 1-2 meals a week. I usually only eat once per day somewhere between 1 and 4. A habit I picked up when I started working for myself. I grab a bite between clients, or when killing time before my next appointment. Even with that, I wouldn't rent a place with a shared kitchen. Aside from cleanliness issues, it's more that likely that any food you buy for yourself will be gone before you decide to cook it.
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I wonder if Charles thinks that its obscene that pretty much every journalist out there has their own MacBook Pro instead of using facilities at a local library. Maybe it's also obscene that everyone has their own pretty floral shirts, after all you can only wear one at a time. He writes like someone one who's never had his food pilfered from the break room fridge. I generally only cook 1-2 meals a week. I usually only eat once per day somewhere between 1 and 4. A habit I picked up when I started working for myself. I grab a bite between clients, or when killing time before my next appointment. Even with that, I wouldn't rent a place with a shared kitchen. Aside from cleanliness issues, it's more that likely that any food you buy for yourself will be gone before you decide to cook it.
You don't understand -- it's not "your" food. All food is everyone's food. You need to be reducated, Komrad.
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You know, the energy to produce plumbing and running water contributes to globular warming. There is no reason why apartment complexes can't dig a pond which can be used for bathing, washing clothes, bowel movements, and drinking water.... they can name the apartment complex "Lil' Zimbabwe."
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It's almost nothing new really.
There's a hotel chain around here that does fairly low cost weekly rentals and several folks use it as housing, staying pretty much as long as they want. Primarily those getting back on their feet and needing something temporary or that can't come up with a security deposit. Or folks who travel for work, ex's dad was a union pipe fitter that'd spend 6+ months living in a hotel since he had to be where the site was and that was often not near home. And his situation there wasn't uncommon. And only sometimes do such places have a kitchen area beyond a microwave, mini fridge, and a sink other than the bathrooms if your lucky. And a hot plate if you felt like buying one. We're not even getting into the seedy *expletive deleted*it hole hotels. And college dorms are basically already this.
Uncle also lived in a hostel type place for several years that not only had no kitchen area, but shared bathrooms, think gym style but all private shower stalls.
Now, I'm not digging the commy glory of the article. I hate sharing a kitchen or bathroom with roomys, screw communal ones with folks in other apartments. But then again, as a low cost option it'd beat sleeping in a box if I found myself with no where else to go and only being able to afford a couple hundred bucks a month for rent.
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Now, I'm not digging the commy glory of the article. I hate sharing a kitchen or bathroom with roomys, screw communal ones with folks in other apartments. But then again, as a low cost option it'd beat sleeping in a box if I found myself with no where else to go and only being able to afford a couple hundred bucks a month for rent.
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Sure, if I HAD to do it, it's a better than nothing option. We've had "boarding houses" for a couple of centuries I guess. I'll generally take a roof over my head and a shared kitchen over sleeping under a bridge. Generally because as I think Gunsmith has pointed out, a lot of modern "boarding houses" are basically drug/disease/filth dens.
But this guy wants to stick us in these shared spaces as a better choice than having your own place. Not a "have to", but a "want to". I ain't there.
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Once "they" have eliminated private kitchens, the logical next step is to eliminate private bathrooms. So either we'll be living in dormitory-like accomodations with the toilet and shower rooms shared communally, or there won't be a bathroom per se but just a stainless steel combo toilet and sink in a corner of the bedroom -- like in a jail cell.
The national model building codes consider a "dwelling unit" to be a space that
If you eliminate the kitchen, you no longer have a "dwelling unit" under the building codes, you now have only a "sleeping unit" -- i.e. a hotel or boarding house.
Something, something, barracks, something....comes to mind
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I know a real estate developer who was directly involved with Seattle "microhousing" a few years ago. Note; in America "microhousing" means "small apartment". They were building efficiency apartment buildings with sub-600sqft units. They were extremely popular especially with college students because they were able to offer units directly downtown, near the university and public transport, for unheard-of prices of $600/ mo, in areas where rents were more like $2000/mo and many people shared units with roommates. The problem is that development policies make this type of housing basically illegal; the city has decided what people want, instead of letting the market decide what people want. First they had to widen the spaces due to building codes that require walls to be at least a certain size, and that cut down the number of units per building. Then they had to provide more parking, even though their target market was college students with no cars, and that killed their cap rates further. And by a thousand cuts the unit rent went up from $600 to $800 and then $1100 and then at that point they stopped building them because they might as well offer "traditional" apartments for $2000/mo. And that's why small cheap apartments, like the kind that are normal in other cities, don't exist here in America. Not because people don't want them; because the government knows better.
This article looks like they are still looking for a loophole. It's probably a good thing; I wish them the best of luck.
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Seattle micro apartments/condos are still alive and well:
https://seattle.curbed.com/micro-apartments-seattle
https://www.anewapartments.com/
https://www.cornellandassociates.com/1715/
https://cubixapartments.com/
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If I wanted to live in a tiny little hole it would be a "hole in the water" and, it would have lots of nice teak trim.
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If I wanted to live in a tiny little hole it would be a "hole in the water" and, it would have lots of nice teak trim.
Which again also leads into this guy going contrary to what a lot of millennials want. I think most millennials/hipsters would take tiny houses over communal living. I think they would still prefer a tiny kitchen of their own over a dormitory kitchen.
In many ways, this reminds me of the whole 'open office" fad that was so big ten years ago. It was all the rage to have these common, open "collaborative" workspaces. Now I read all the time about how detrimental that design has shown itself to be and that people stuck in those offices always find ways to telecommute or otherwise get themselves behind a closed door so they can get work done.
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Which again also leads into this guy going contrary to what a lot of millennials want. I think most millennials/hipsters would take tiny houses over communal living. I think they would still prefer a tiny kitchen of their own over a dormitory kitchen.
In many ways, this reminds me of the whole 'open office" fad that was so big ten years ago. It was all the rage to have these common, open "collaborative" workspaces. Now I read all the time about how detrimental that design has shown itself to be and that people stuck in those offices always find ways to telecommute or otherwise get themselves behind a closed door so they can get work done.
Where I work, us chemists all use the same open office- it IS hard to get things done, because people always suck you into conversations about goats, guns, chainsaws, or Rick and Morty.
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They've been against the idea of being able to cook your own meals for some time.
http://monsterhunternation.com/2018/02/12/fisking-the-stop-telling-poor-people-to-cook-doofus-with-special-guest-my-mom/
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They've been against the idea of being able to cook your own meals for some time.
http://monsterhunternation.com/2018/02/12/fisking-the-stop-telling-poor-people-to-cook-doofus-with-special-guest-my-mom/
As much as we dig at KD5 regarding the thrift store bargains, that is the answer here. Seriously? Poor people can't cook because of utensil cost?
EDIT: Also apparently the only way you can use fresh garlic is with a garlic press. This guy has to be from a gentrified part of the Bronx or something. I have a garlic press. I never use it because it's a hassle. That chef's knife Larry mentions does the trick for me for 90% of my needs. Slower in prep, faster in cleanup. :)
EDIT AGAIN: Oh man, you guys have got to read this. I keep reading through it and coming back here to add more outrageousness.
You swap vegetable oil for olive oil, water for stock or broth, table salt for sea salt, etc.
My grandma used to run warm water through a chicken and call it chicken soup. I don’t think you’ve got a real strong grasp on what the word “poverty” means.
OMG! If you don't have olive oil, you can't cook anything!!!!!!!!! How can we dare ask poor people to use Wesson oil!?! :rofl:
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But you don't get the space for other stuff. The developer uses the space saved from multiple kitchens to squeeze in more small units that don't have kitchens. You lose, the developer wins.
If it costs less and you weren't going to use a kitchen (or that space) anyway, that's not a loss. It's efficient. I can see it being a good option for some people, but like most people here it's not what I want.
However, I know a guy who lives alone and does not cook - won't even make macaroni & cheese from the box. I bet he'd be happy to save some money on a place with no kitchen.
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Bring back the flop houses!
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Bring back the flop houses!
An old school YMCA might be more appealing for the author.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cincinnativiews.net%2Fimages-3%2FYMCA-9th%2520St.Branch-Dorm%2520Room.jpg&hash=1825dccd9a29ea911db15ef0238becfe308c2efe)
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My daughter lives in the Queens area of NYC and will turn 28 next month. She says a lot of her contemporaries do exist on restaurant/takeout/frozen food and have no cooking skills or equipment other than a microwave and Keurig coffee maker, so the kitchen is used for storage. She was the object of awe when she first went to college because she could cook an omelet.