Home Raided Over Facebook Photo of Son With Rifle

[Ben]

Guess it helps to have your attorney on speed dial.

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/familys-home-raided-over-facebook-photo-of-childs-rifle.html

[RocketMan]

It will get worse.  More raids, aka "inspections", traumatized families, etc.  Coming soon to homes near you.
And the cops will probably make life 'interesting' for the gentleman in the story because he refused to cooperate.  They will be back I would bet.

[RoadKingLarry]

But I thought "most" of the cops were good guys on our side?

I wonder if I'm on a "list" after posting a pic of the grand son with the Cricket rifle?

[lupinus]

And NJ just keeps giving me new reasons to be glad I got out of that hellhole.

But I thought "most" of the cops were good guys on our side?

Like so many other things, location location location.

[Blakenzy]

"The War on Gunownership".. that's what is going on here  

How many here have a competent legal representative on retainer? It's coming to a time where even trivial involvement with firearms may get you 'special' government treatment.

[brimic]

The kid in the photo no doubt has better trigger finger discipline than the cops. No way would I let them into my house either.

[brimic]

And the cops will probably make life 'interesting' for the gentleman in the story because he refused to cooperate.  They will be back I would bet.

Of course they will- when the family is gone during the day at work/school. All they need is to 'hear' or 'smell' something suspiscious and they have 'probable cause' to burglarize check out the premises.

[MechAg94]

But the person who reported the false allegations of abuse cannot be held liable, she noted.

“You can’t be prosecuted for making an allegation of child abuse –even if it’s false,” she said.

They also said they investigate all reports.  Somehow I doubt that would hold up if citizens started reporting allegations on local politicians and police officers. 

[MechAg94]

So I guess it was not entirely clear.  The police showed up.  The wife didn't let them in and texted the husband who showed up and refused to let them in with his attorney on speakerphone.  So the house wasn't actually raided. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

So I guess it was not entirely clear.  The police showed up.  The wife didn't let them in and texted the husband who showed up and refused to let them in with his attorney on speakerphone.  So the house wasn't actually raided. 

Oh now you want to go all reality?!

Al jones is taking you off his mail list.

Seems like cps is the bad guy here and to a great extent their hands are tied. They HAVE to check all complaints. And the cops are stuck going with em.

In the real world an incident luke this is known as a get outa jail free. If the cops wanted to play the "i smell something game they woulda done it then.
Doing it when no ones home doesn't work.


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[cordex]

So I guess it was not entirely clear.  The police showed up.  The wife didn't let them in and texted the husband who showed up and refused to let them in with his attorney on speakerphone.  So the house wasn't actually raided. 

Not quite.
His initial report:
http://www.deloc.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8175

The fight has officially been brought to my front door

Last night I was out with a buddy of mine. I got a text from my wife that the cops and dyfs are at the house and they wanna check out my guns and needed me to open my safe.
I'm instantly on my way. I get in contact with evan Nappen on the way. I explain the situation. I walk in my house and hand the phone to the first cop I see. Then direct all of em outside. Dyfs got a call because of a pic on my son holding a gun. They wanted to look around and check all my guns out, make sure they were all registered. Obviously that didn't go well because I refused. I had Nappen on speaker phone the entire time so they had to deal with both of us. They kept trying to pressure me to open my safe. They had no warrant, no charges, nothing. I didn't budge. I was told I was being "unreasonable" and that I was acting suspicious because I wouldn't open my safe. Told me they were gonna get a search warrant. Told em go ahead. Nappen (my lawyer) asked me for the dyfs workers name. she wouldnt give it. i asked for credentials and she wouldnt show em. i tried to take a pic of her and she turned around real fast and walked away. After a while of them threatening to take my kids, get warrants and intimidation they left. Empty handed and seeing nothing.

People it can happen that fast. Most people wouldn't have stood up to them like I did.

Emphasis mine.

The cops and DYFS employee were in the home (presumably let in by the wife) and demanded that he open his gun safe.  He declined and told them to leave his house.

[RevDisk]

The guy did the right thing. No warrant, no entry. 

Yes, theoretically, Child Welfare have to investigate every allegation. And it's not unexpected the police tag along. Blame should go to a) person that called it in, and b) the police for unreasonable widening the scope from child endangerment to a fishing expedition. Is the kid in the safe? No? Can the guy legally have the firearms? Yes? Next item on the checklist.

[SADShooter]

While the thread title may a bit hyperbolic, cops/DYFS showed up, warrantless, with expectation of entry and search, demanding same until refused. This implied assumption of power is the problem. A homeowner who expects legal procedure to be followed is "unreasonable". Where have we heard that before?

[makattak]

Actually, most bothersome to me after the clear intimidation of lawful gun owners is the fact that the DYFS official refused to provide a name or credentials. THAT is extremely wrong.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Actually, most bothersome to me after the clear intimidation of lawful gun owners is the fact that the DYFS official refused to provide a name or credentials. THAT is extremely wrong.

yup  and that should hurt

[SteveS]

I certainly can't speak for NJ, but in many states, it is illegal to make a false report of child abuse.  Maybe this is the case in NJ, but I am skeptical.

I was a contract therapist for a number of years for my state's CPS.  In Michigan, they do not have to investigate every claim of child abuse.  They have to investigate every credible claim of child abuse.  If someone calls in with something that is BS or not actual abuse, this is not going to be investigated.  CPS, for the most part, has plenty of work to do with real, actual child abuse.

I wonder if there is more to this besides a Facebook picture.  I am not suggesting actual abuse, but I wonder if this guy has some one that is mad at him and has made other allegations.

[Ben]

"The War on Gunownership".. that's what is going on here  

How many here have a competent legal representative on retainer? It's coming to a time where even trivial involvement with firearms may get you 'special' government treatment.

I put the CalGuns Foundation hotline in my cell contacts last year. They specifically set it up so CA gun owners can do what this guy did - get an attorney on the line ASAP and hand the phone to the cops.

[T.O.M.]

They also said they investigate all reports.  Somehow I doubt that would hold up if citizens started reporting allegations on local politicians and police officers. 

Back when I was a prosecutor, and handled a nasty child abuse case, the defendant's family called in a report allegation on me to Child Protective Services.  They showed up to investigate.  he was 2, so an interview was out of the question, but they did check his back for the alleged bruising (with  my consent).

Oh, and the two people who called in the referrals were prosecuted.  Ohio has a law making it illegal to knowingly make false child abuse allegations.

[T.O.M.]

Forgot to add, the OP's story is crap.

Back when I was a new prosecutor working child neglect cases for CPS, I was asked to get a removal order because a man took his 7 year old out and let her shoot guns with him.  "Hell no!" was the response she got.

[cordex]

Forgot to add, the OP's story is crap.

Back when I was a new prosecutor working child neglect cases for CPS, I was asked to get a removal order because a man took his 7 year old out and let her shoot guns with him.  "Hell no!" was the response she got.

How is that relevant to the OP?  This wasn't a removal order, this was an "investigation" in which the CPS analog was accompanied by at least three LEOs.  How does the fact that you once denied a removal order have any bearing on this case?

[SADShooter]

How is that relevant to the OP?  This wasn't a removal order, this was an "investigation" in which the CPS analog was accompanied by at least three LEOs.  How does the fact that you once denied a removal order have any bearing on this case?

Because he's offering the sane alternative to the reactionary silliness by the authorities in this case?

[gunsmith]

this illustrates the problem I have with registration.
big brother doesn't need to know who owns what.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

http://www.nj.gov/dcf/reporting/how/index.html

http://www.nj.gov/dcf/documents/notices/10_129_CPI_2.6.12.pdf

[grampster]

Call me.  I can tell you about real child abuse from my LE days.  Lit cigarettes and electric stoves do not make good companions for little kids.  A flight of stairs in handcuffs makes a good companion for his mother.

[Strings]

>Actually, most bothersome to me after the clear intimidation of lawful gun owners is the fact that the DYFS official refused to provide a name or credentials. THAT is extremely wrong.<

That's what stuck with me, too...