Author Topic: What country has the best health care system?  (Read 911 times)

Pb

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What country has the best health care system?
« on: September 12, 2013, 11:47:37 AM »
What country has the best health care system?  and why ???

I know the failures of our system in the USA.... does anyone do it better?

AZRedhawk44

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Re: What country has the best health care system?
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2013, 11:52:29 AM »
"Best" requires a definition of objective.

Democrats define it as greatest access for poor people.

Republicans define it as best way to enshrine permanent voter support of the AARP crowd.


I'd say "best" is being able to get prompt care and resolve whatever problem ails you while protecting your privacy.  Cost doesn't enter into it for me, though competitive pricing would.  Having to wait at the ER while someone with no insurance and also intending to stiff the hospital with the bill gets serviced in front of me is not my definition of "best."
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Nick1911

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Re: What country has the best health care system?
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2013, 11:56:05 AM »
Best what?

Best outcomes overall?
Best outcomes per dollar spent?
Best outcomes for people with lots of cash?
Best outcomes for people with no cash?
Best at R&D?
Best at preventive care?

Scout26

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Re: What country has the best health care system?
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2013, 11:59:47 AM »
Well, more extremely wealthy people from all over the world come to the US for treatment.

The US is the leader in developing new medicines and treatments for various diseases.

While our Healthcare "System" is broken due to .gov interference it is about to become more broken due to Obamacare.
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Pb

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Re: What country has the best health care system?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2013, 12:11:15 PM »
Good point. 

In YOUR opinion, which country has the best health care system?

TommyGunn

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Re: What country has the best health care system?
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2013, 12:14:59 PM »
Good point. 

In YOUR opinion, which country has the best health care system?
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Re: What country has the best health care system?
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2013, 12:31:30 PM »
Good point. 

In YOUR opinion, which country has the best health care system?

I actually prefer Australia's model. They still have .gov provided healthcare for all, BUT it's a totally separate system from the private. Different hospitals, doctors, nurses etc. So the private side is getting crushed under fed.gov BS like Medicare.

Now, if you're talking about who has the best infrastructure, the most highly skilled specialists, the most advanced treatment etc it's probably America. But that's an issue of provision, not system. To give an example, one of my vendors is a glazier. They do great work. But their front office is a joke. Totally non-responsive, expensive etc.
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HankB

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Re: What country has the best health care system?
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2013, 01:40:53 PM »
If comparing health care systems worldwide, I think the best way to see how they measure up is to see where people with a choice actually go for health care; people DO "vote with their feet" on things like this.

I personally think that, imperfect as it is and despite Obama's immoral meddling and conniving to take us down a few pegs, it's still the USA with the best system . . . but once we see full implementation of Obamacare, your guess will be as good as mine.
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Kingcreek

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Re: What country has the best health care system?
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2013, 02:23:30 PM »
Norway followed by Sweden. Modern healthcare but conservative. Not pharmacy driven like USA. Of course it helps a bunch that the population is much healthier right out of the gate.
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lee n. field

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Re: What country has the best health care system?
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2013, 02:24:10 PM »
What country has the best health care system?  and why ???

I know the failures of our system in the USA.... does anyone do it better?

Great if you got medicaid,  insurance or enough money.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 03:05:23 PM by lee n. field »
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: What country has the best health care system?
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2013, 02:29:09 PM »
If comparing health care systems worldwide, I think the best way to see how they measure up is to see where people with a choice actually go for health care; people DO "vote with their feet" on things like this.

I personally think that, imperfect as it is and despite Obama's immoral meddling and conniving to take us down a few pegs, it's still the USA with the best system . . . but once we see full implementation of Obamacare, your guess will be as good as mine.

True.

If the capitalist method of medicine is fully extinguished in the US, we'll lose that status.

Once it is illegal to decline to accept particular forms of payment (government insurance in particular but any particular insurance in general), US healthcare dominance is done for.

That's one of the things that irks me most about the critics perspective on the AnCap model.

Take any bleeding edge medical treatment.  Let's say someone has a medical procedure that cures all forms of cancer, permanently.  That person has invested time and capital to bring that treatment to market.  Now that the treatment exists, some sort of decision has to be made on how to implement it.  

That single person can choose to implement all treatments himself, monopolize his tech and be able to treat perhaps 2 people a day, 5 days a week... about 500 people a year.  And charge those 500 people $100k each.

He's got a monopoly on the market, he can charge what he wants.

Or, he can go into the education market and teach others how to implement his treatment.  Charge each provider $100k to learn how to do it.  He can teach 10 providers in a classroom setting per week, and make the same amount as monopolizing his treatment, and ultimately treat more people by exponential provider availability.  Except, the value of the treatment diminishes with the number of providers capable of rendering service.

But, whether 1 provider charges $100k per treatment, or 100 providers charge $10k per treatment, no matter what this is true:  most insurance plans won't cover the treatment.  Whether it's government or private insurance.  Won't cover it.

So the first recipients of bleeding edge medicine need to have something in common with the first customers of private space flight:  Money.

And this makes sense.  

Those researchers and doctors inventing new treatments, are not inventing them in a vacuum.  They use new microscope technologies, new computer technologies, new analytical philosophies, new dna or chemical splicing technologies, new transportation technologies to make new resources available to them, and a host of other advancements provided by the various Hank Reardens of this world.

A new treatment is just like Rearden metal:  untested, but claimed to be an improvement on the status quo (i.e. a lack of treatment).  

Consumers of new treatments need to have something in common:  An intelligent mind capable of analysis of a treatment in terms of risk and benefit.  And funds to reward the development of that new treatment if they choose to utilize it.

The pizza delivery guy doesn't have either of these things.

The successful entrepreneur, does.

So the entrepreneur gets to be the guinea pig for the new treatment, at great cost to his financial success thus far.  He bears the risks necessary to BUILD THE ODDS that justify the coverage of the treatment by various insurance plans, once sufficient treatments are implemented to define those odds.

De-railing the AnCap model of health care entirely will subject the poor to more questionable medical procedures that are not fully mastered by the practitioners of those treatments.
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drewtam

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Re: What country has the best health care system?
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2013, 03:35:28 PM »
I don't know about best.

I hear a lot of positive things about the Singapore system. Praised for a good balance of private and public responsibility and freedom.


There is nothing capitalist about the US system. Not with gov't control of drugs, delegated to doctor script bureaucracy. Not with mandated care for ER. Not with a complex system of taxes to drive everyone to an employer based insurance. Not with gov't mandates of what insurance must cover.
There isn't much difference between what we do vs gov't run healthcare. We just run everything through an employer intermediate.

Obamacare:
doesn't change drug control
doesn't change mandates for ER care
might reduce employer based healthcare (good)
dramatically increases required insurance coverage (bad)
adds individual mandate
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Re: What country has the best health care system?
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2013, 02:38:07 PM »
I think someone just misses DeSelby  :laugh: :angel:.
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Re: What country has the best health care system?
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2013, 01:22:23 PM »
I don't know about the best, but a good friend's husband has serious health issues and she's taken him to a couple different places in Europe for treatment's that aren't available in the U.S. I also know several women in the international sailing community who go to one of the Caribbean islands, I want to say St. John, but I could be way off base, for their mammograms because the technology is far greater - the imaging machine uses a cup instead of two flat panels, which is both more comfortable and gives 360 images for better diagnostics. Plus, it's available to anyone regardless of insurance and is under $100 per exam. I've also had several friends go to Canada for Lasik (sp) surgery because the technology was supposedly better and it was substantially less expensive.

What qualifies as "best" to me is a healthcare system that isn't controlled by the insurance industry. Other things are important as well, of course, such as quality, but that's one of my biggest peeves.
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lee n. field

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Re: What country has the best health care system?
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2013, 02:15:21 PM »
I don't know about the best, but a good friend's husband has serious health issues and she's taken him to a couple different places in Europe for treatment's that aren't available in the U.S. I also know several women in the international sailing community who go to one of the Caribbean islands, I want to say St. John, but I could be way off base, for their mammograms because the technology is far greater - the imaging machine uses a cup instead of two flat panels, which is both more comfortable and gives 360 images for better diagnostics. Plus, it's available to anyone regardless of insurance and is under $100 per exam. I've also had several friends go to Canada for Lasik (sp) surgery because the technology was supposedly better and it was substantially less expensive.

What qualifies as "best" to me is a healthcare system that isn't controlled by the insurance industry. Other things are important as well, of course, such as quality, but that's one of my biggest peeves.

Interesting.

<sarcasm>We have the best health care system in the world because, of course, "U! S! A! We're! Number! One!"</sarcasm>.  Or we have a free market, or something.  We tend to not even know what's going on elsewhere.

If one can afford to do the health care tourism thing, you're already in an income range that gives you a lot of options.
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