All Police Should Be Required By Law To Wear Personal Recorders

[Gewehr98]

Seeing as I'm an MP now, it's not redundant.  Thanks.

Sorry to hear about the MP thing, but you are indeed welcome.  (The AF put their lowest ASVAB scoring folks in Security Police, I hope that's not what happens in the Army...)

I also cleaned up your posting and one other member's just a smidgen, as a courtesy to the underage members of this forum. 

Sometimes we forget. 

BTW, I believe EVERYBODY should be forced to wear a video/audio recorder, 24/7.  It's the only way to guarantee accountability from the members of society, regardless of their vocation. 

So there.

[taurusowner]

I don't know anything about being put anywhere.  I didn't realize the USAF didn't allow people to choose their MOS.  I got a 95, I chose MP.

[Matthew Carberry]

Won't someone think of the clever play on words I made my last post?

Comedy like that doesn't grow on trees (under rocks maybe).

You monsters!

[209]

At first, I thought cops should have to wear these evidence-gathering devices only while on duty.  Now I am leaning towards forcing all people employed in law enforcement to wear them all the time, to prevent cops from planting evidence while off duty as well.

Great idea.  But to make it work, I think we should require everybody to wear them.  Then when the broadband system you mentioned is readily available, I won't even have to leave the station.  We can just send tickets by mail and if you commit a crime that is an arrestable offense, we can just call you and you can come to the PD.  Heck, the technology exists so we'll just be able to contact you through the monitoring system itself.

Sweet deal all around.

Of course, some people won't comply, so we'll have to incorporate an explosive collar that blows your head off if your personal device stops recording.  But, that would be very rare. I mean how many times do things like computers (or Windows  ) crash.  Or how many times do you get someplace where broadband isn't available.  Never happens!

[Balog]

To those predicting an end of discretionary non-ticketing......

1. Stops etc are already recorded from the dashcam. How will having 2 recording devices instead of one make a violent, drastic difference in enforcement? Esp as a shirt pocket recorder would be much less capable of recording the specifics of infractions committed outside the car.

2. This might make it very slightly more difficult to plant evidence etc, but it's hardly foolproof. How many times a day do you naturally move an arm across the shirt pocket area? And a little care in positioning would make sure the view was blocked whilst planting the evidence.

So an on duty on body recorder would be a step in the right direction, but hardly a massive shift either to draconian enforcement or invasion of privacy.

[Gewehr98]

Balog, sometimes cops actually work outside their cruisers and windshield-mounted cameras.

(Just a little hint...)

[MechAg94]

Seeing as I'm an MP now, it's not redundant.  Thanks.

You're in the British Parliament? 

[Balog]

G98: my point was that a LOT of discretionary ticketing is done in full view of a camera already, so another one thrown in the mix is hardly a "ZOMG WE'RE ALL GONNA GET $5000 IN TICKETS IF WE GET PULLED OVER" situation. All the Chicken Little examples given were of traffic stops (speeding AND no signal AND cracked windshield etc) which are generally conducted near the cruiser. Traffic stops are also where the majority of discretionary policing is done.

[The Annoyed Man]

the local sheriffs deputys paid for their own cameras
got a decent payoff when a riot at the locaql "rap club" spilled outside  60 folks with sticks clubs and chairs. of course when they went to revoke the liquor license it was all a racist plot by the evil man. no fight just jbt at heir worst with a host of "good citizen " witnesses.   they didn't know about the cams and since they had 5 local sheriffs plus 3 state troopers respond they had multiple cameras to support the cops version

[The Annoyed Man]

G98: my point was that a LOT of discretionary ticketing is done in full view of a camera already, so another one thrown in the mix is hardly a "ZOMG WE'RE ALL GONNA GET $5000 IN TICKETS IF WE GET PULLED OVER" situation. All the Chicken Little examples given were of traffic stops (speeding AND no signal AND cracked windshield etc) which are generally conducted near the cruiser. Traffic stops are also where the majority of discretionary policing is done.

in the real world those caneras aren't monitored unless there is a complaint. as opposed to the proposed broadband wireless hookup. and in many cases the cop can turn em off.  as someone who has been the benificiary of a great deal of discretion in particular with some of the more "stupid " laws i am reluctant to stop that

[Gewehr98]

I dunno, Balog.

I'm thinking more of the skateboarding in shopping malls, domestic spats, jaywalking, and other non-dashcam incidents that aren't usually worth the paperwork for officers. 

What used to be discretionary may now force the officer to file, if just to save his own job.

[The Annoyed Man]

plus the all important issue to so many  think of all the folks that get nailed with a joint and who no longer get a mulligan when the cop loses his discretion

[MicroBalrog]

There already are cameras on all police cars.

[The Annoyed Man]

maybe in your world  the reallity i live in that is not the case

[MicroBalrog]

maybe in your world  the reallity i live in that is not the case

In the reality [one 'l'] I [capital] live in, many jurisdictions require cameras to be installed on police cars.

[The Annoyed Man]

maybe in your world  the reallity i live in that is not the case

In the reality [one 'l'] I [capital] live in, many jurisdictions require cameras to be installed on police cars.

so what happened to "all cop cars have cameras"

[MicroBalrog]

maybe in your world  the reallity i live in that is not the case

In the reality [one 'l'] I [capital] live in, many jurisdictions require cameras to be installed on police cars.

so what happened to "all cop cars have cameras"

Well, OBVIOUSLY not all police cars in creation have cameras.

However, that's not the point. The point is that there are many jurisdictions where cameras are mandated on police cars and that does not cause the effects that have been predicted in this thread.

[griz]

BTW, I believe EVERYBODY should be forced to wear a video/audio recorder, 24/7.  It's the only way to guarantee accountability from the members of society, regardless of their vocation. 

Sarcasm aside, who would have thought that 1984 style monitoring would start with law enforcment being on the recieving end?

[The Annoyed Man]

maybe in your world  the reallity i live in that is not the case

In the reality [one 'l'] I [capital] live in, many jurisdictions require cameras to be installed on police cars.

strangly enough in the area i live in there wasn't money in budget for cameras.  so the cops bought their own   and got their moneys worth. part of the multi million price tag for prince william countys immigration initiative  was the cost of cameras,

could you show me an area where the cameras were "mandated"

so what happened to "all cop cars have cameras"

Well, OBVIOUSLY not all police cars in creation have cameras.

However, that's not the point. The point is that there are many jurisdictions where cameras are mandated on police cars and that does not cause the effects that have been predicted in this thread.

[Firethorn]

The AF put their lowest ASVAB scoring folks in Security Police, I hope that's not what happens in the Army...

That and services.  I'll also note that the AF's MINIMUM score to join is higher than the army's.

And my first thought upon hearing 'becoming a civilian cop' was that he's leaving the military and hiring onto some civilian police agency.  Fairly frequent event with SP types.  They use the free training and tuition to get a LE degree, possibly the GI bill.

On cameras - Has anybody seen a noted incident rate of 'camera malfunctioned/not running/tape accidentially lost or overwritten/etc...' when questions of police misconduct has occured?  Do departments with cameras have lower incident rates?

I've heard of the police blocking access to the recordings before.

[MicroBalrog]

Here:

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0808/548511.html

[richyoung]

I didn't say they were the same thing.

I stated that requiring police to have their personal lives recorded would mean a lot less people would volunteer to be police.  And this being the site it is and sister site of THR, I anticipated responses saying "good, I want less police".

And I am saying, no, you really don't want less police.  Even if you think you do.

If there were less police in Chicago, New Orleans, Philidelphia, New York City, and LA -

the crime rate would go down!

[The Annoyed Man]

Here:

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0808/548511.html

"The Police Complaints Board urged Washington to install video cameras in police cruisers. The department said it will undertake the expensive project gradually, as funding becomes available.
   that must be a libertarian definition of mandate

[The Annoyed Man]

I didn't say they were the same thing.

I stated that requiring police to have their personal lives recorded would mean a lot less people would volunteer to be police.  And this being the site it is and sister site of THR, I anticipated responses saying "good, I want less police".

And I am saying, no, you really don't want less police.  Even if you think you do.

If there were less police in Chicago, New Orleans, Philidelphia, New York City, and LA -

the crime rate would go down!

uhhmmm  no  not even close

[richyoung]

I didn't say they were the same thing.

I stated that requiring police to have their personal lives recorded would mean a lot less people would volunteer to be police.  And this being the site it is and sister site of THR, I anticipated responses saying "good, I want less police".

And I am saying, no, you really don't want less police.  Even if you think you do.

If there were less police in Chicago, New Orleans, Philidelphia, New York City, and LA -

the crime rate would go down!

uhhmmm  no  not even close

Fewer criminals = less crime.  Besides, its not like Chicago cops have time to do any law enforcement, what with their busy day of planting evidence, committing perjury, beating up bartendresses, watching their buddies beat up bartendresses, conspiring to frame ex-wives, etc.  The N'awlins po-po are too busy stealing cars, confiscating guns, and getting in on the looting.  Not to mention the time honored shake-downs...