Author Topic: Court Staffer Fired for Helping Wrongfully Convicted Man  (Read 13864 times)

RevDisk

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,633
    • RevDisk.net
Re: Court Staffer Fired for Helping Wrongfully Convicted Man
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2013, 03:44:26 PM »
Chris: so your point is basically that the correct and ethical thing to do is allow a man to rot in prison instead of providing a form to the victim seeking redress? Jesus. And you're one of the better examples of the legal system.

Chris' point was the legal system should be impartial and not give advice. Providing a form is fine. A clerk giving inside information is generally not. "Psst, file XYZ and you'll win because the other side forgot to do ABC." I do agree with you that the lady was morally in the white. Ethically in the grey. Legally apparently in the black. It's not the best example, and she shouldn't have been fired. It's speculation on whether she was fired for doing a no-no or because she possibly embarrassed someone by helping overturn a false conviction.

But how would most folks here react if legal clerks, as a random example, were illegally giving the Martin family inside information on a civil suite against Mr Zimmerman?

This is a bad example of a generally good idea.



Chris: Question. Do the same rules apply between legal system employees and prosecutors/police?
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: Court Staffer Fired for Helping Wrongfully Convicted Man
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2013, 03:50:19 PM »
I see nothing to indicate that anything like that happened. She gave them a publicly available form, and an example of how to fill it out properly. This constitutes illegal inside information how again?
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Ned Hamford

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,075
Re: Court Staffer Fired for Helping Wrongfully Convicted Man
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2013, 04:14:45 PM »
I see nothing to indicate that anything like that happened. She gave them a publicly available form, and an example of how to fill it out properly. This constitutes illegal inside information how again?

I'll be honest; this stumped me in law school.  I can recall my law professor, the acting dean, giving the example of being a judge in a custody hearing where the big evil bad guy husband had a slick lawyer and the poor innocent loving mother had a country bumpkin attorney who neglected to mention a bit of law that would be an automatic win for his side. I forget the particular, so lets say the husband was a convicted felon and the state law says that makes him ineligible.  'What do you do?' Some classmates talked about having a law clerk slip him a note or some other underhanded but good meaning schemes.  My saying that as judge I can recognize law on my own right, sua sponte, cause I'm the judge and knowing the law is kinda my job, was deemed incorrect as well.  The prof threw up his arms and shouted Chaos! 

Much like my belief all prosecutors should have open file sharing, the open law book belief is another foundation.  It basically stems from all working within the same paradigm in the court.  Same evidence, same law; endless argument from perspective and applicability.    Needless jargon and obfuscation lower the general respect for the law and government.  While I sometimes get a kick out of folks who think contracts are magic; I think such superstitious belief harmful and we should be looking at our goings ons as matters of honor and consequence. 

All that said, I do somewhat ironically hate those internet DIY contracts and think them lawyering by automation.  While a fine idea on principle, all states have their own giant list of contract defaults which if not directly addressed in the contract, are nonetheless binding.  So... while perfect knowledge does seem ideal, the notion of everyone being a lawyer does seem like a radical dystopia to my ears.   
http://youtu.be/wjXmZ8FkOI8
Improbus a nullo flectitur obsequio.

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Court Staffer Fired for Helping Wrongfully Convicted Man
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2013, 06:09:40 PM »
I see nothing to indicate that anything like that happened. She gave them a publicly available form, and an example of how to fill it out properly. This constitutes illegal inside information how again?


not even close

bold mine
Byrn fired her June 27, telling her she had violated several court rules by providing assistance to Nelson and talking about aspects of the case, even while under seal, to attorneys not involved in the matter.

Read more: http://www.kmbc.com/news/kansas-city/longtime-court-employee-fired-for-offering-advice/-/11664182/21212530/-/xwesmm/-/index.html#ixzz2al4pjP00
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 06:15:16 PM by cassandra and sara's daddy »
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

T.O.M.

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,413
Re: Court Staffer Fired for Helping Wrongfully Convicted Man
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2013, 07:17:31 PM »
Sorry.  Been busy in court and at home.  I'm on my mobile, and will write when I get to a real keyboard.
No, I'm not mtnbkr.  ;)

a.k.a. "our resident Legal Smeagol."...thanks BryanP
"Anybody can give legal advice - but only licensed attorneys can sell it."...vaskidmark

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: Court Staffer Fired for Helping Wrongfully Convicted Man
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2013, 07:38:39 PM »

not even close

bold mine
Byrn fired her June 27, telling her she had violated several court rules by providing assistance to Nelson and talking about aspects of the case, even while under seal, to attorneys not involved in the matter.

Read more: http://www.kmbc.com/news/kansas-city/longtime-court-employee-fired-for-offering-advice/-/11664182/21212530/-/xwesmm/-/index.html#ixzz2al4pjP00


Could mean anything. "Hey, did X contact you about Y?" "Yes." ZOMG she's giving legal advice!!!!!

Of course, I'm sure the DA who's pissed that an innocent man went free has to be a paragon of virtue and we shouldn't EVER think that he might be twisting events to justify a punative firing.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Court Staffer Fired for Helping Wrongfully Convicted Man
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2013, 07:45:39 PM »
Could mean anything. "Hey, did X contact you about Y?" "Yes." ZOMG she's giving legal advice!!!!!

Of course, I'm sure the DA who's pissed that an innocent man went free has to be a paragon of virtue and we shouldn't EVER think that he might be twisting events to justify a punative firing.

let me try again
under seal
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

freakazoid

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,243
Re: Court Staffer Fired for Helping Wrongfully Convicted Man
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2013, 08:35:52 PM »
Why exactly can't the legal system give legal advise? ??? ??? ???
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

"I see a rager at least once a week." - brimic

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

RoadKingLarry

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,841
Re: Court Staffer Fired for Helping Wrongfully Convicted Man
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2013, 08:58:06 PM »
Let's see if I got this straight.

A man was wrongly convicted of a heinous crime and spent decades in jail.
A staffer provides him with a little material support that results in his exoneration.
Staffer is fired from her job for this.
Some of you are OK with this? Seriously?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Court Staffer Fired for Helping Wrongfully Convicted Man
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2013, 09:21:17 PM »
Let's see if I got this straight.

A man was wrongly convicted of a heinous crime and spent decades in jail.
A staffer provides him with a little material support that results in his exoneration.
Staffer is fired from her job for this.
Some of you are OK with this? Seriously?

no
try again

It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

RoadKingLarry

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,841
Re: Court Staffer Fired for Helping Wrongfully Convicted Man
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2013, 09:23:38 PM »
no
try again



Please enlighten me. I have very little experience with our "legal system". Since you seem to be an expert please tell me how mitigating a miscarriage of justice somehow justifies this.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Court Staffer Fired for Helping Wrongfully Convicted Man
« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2013, 09:32:32 PM »
Please enlighten me. I have very little experience with our "legal system". Since you seem to be an expert please tell me how mitigating a miscarriage of justice somehow justifies this.


he was sentenced for other crimes that woulda kept him in jail till at least 2008.

staffer stepped in it by disclosing under seal
she coulda faced more serious sanctions
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: Court Staffer Fired for Helping Wrongfully Convicted Man
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2013, 10:09:46 PM »
You get a lot if mileage out of one off the cuff sentence in one news report. I shudder to imagine your indignation if someone did that to a cop.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Re: Court Staffer Fired for Helping Wrongfully Convicted Man
« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2013, 10:24:55 PM »
you don't like that fact? i don't blame you. its an awkward fit for your world view

damn phone
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

T.O.M.

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,413
Re: Court Staffer Fired for Helping Wrongfully Convicted Man
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2013, 11:01:13 PM »
Okay, I'm at a keyboard now instead of the virtual one on my tablet.  Haven't had the time to do much shopping for one for the tablet.

First, when I said this woman was "wrong, I meant that what she did was legally wrong, not morally wrong.  That said, if she chose to do the "wrong" thing for "all the right reasons," she still has to live with the consequences.  I've made that choice before.  Fortunately, it's worked out better for me than it has her.

Now, I've written and rewritten this post three four five six seven times now.  No kidding.  I'll just write it this way...
 
The court must be like this, as cold and heartless as it sounds.  It can't offer help to either side.  I'm not talking about a clerk giving out forms, or even doing so creatively to suggest what forms are the right ones.  I'm talking about helping someone on one side with information not normally made available by the clerk to the public.  Now this case is a bad example, because we're talking about "the State" vs. an innocent man in prison.  But, how would you all feel if this was the case of a young prosecutor working on a case, and a magistrate helped out the prosecutor by giving him an example of a motion to use against a defendant?  Or a police officer coming to see a clerk/friend and getting some "under the counter" information from a sealed file to help an investigation?  A court and its staff cannot pick and choose who is worthy of helping, or who shouldn't be helped.  How could you decide? Where do you draw a line, and still make things fair to everyone?

Gee, I hope that I haven't tarnished my reputation as being a good guy too much...   ;)
No, I'm not mtnbkr.  ;)

a.k.a. "our resident Legal Smeagol."...thanks BryanP
"Anybody can give legal advice - but only licensed attorneys can sell it."...vaskidmark

T.O.M.

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,413
Re: Court Staffer Fired for Helping Wrongfully Convicted Man
« Reply #41 on: August 01, 2013, 11:05:05 PM »

Chris: Question. Do the same rules apply between legal system employees and prosecutors/police?

Absolutely.  I could no more offer advice to a prosecutor or a cop than I could to any other person.
No, I'm not mtnbkr.  ;)

a.k.a. "our resident Legal Smeagol."...thanks BryanP
"Anybody can give legal advice - but only licensed attorneys can sell it."...vaskidmark

T.O.M.

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,413
Re: Court Staffer Fired for Helping Wrongfully Convicted Man
« Reply #42 on: August 01, 2013, 11:10:15 PM »
Chris: so your point is basically that the correct and ethical thing to do is allow a man to rot in prison instead of providing a form to the victim seeking redress? Jesus. And you're one of the better examples of the legal system.

Sorry, just catching up.  My posts were about what was legally right, not necessarily morally right.  I'me not naive enough to believe that legally right equates morally right.  And, I think you and I have a different understanding of what was happening in this case.  I read it as being a clerk helping a convicted person by providing him copies of motions from other cases he could use as examples for drafting a motion of his own.  If it was mailing him a form to fill in, I'd be with you.  In fact, I'm helping develop forms for our court to provide people so they can do things on their own without attorneys.

Can I get my halo back?   ;)
No, I'm not mtnbkr.  ;)

a.k.a. "our resident Legal Smeagol."...thanks BryanP
"Anybody can give legal advice - but only licensed attorneys can sell it."...vaskidmark

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: Re: Court Staffer Fired for Helping Wrongfully Convicted Man
« Reply #43 on: August 02, 2013, 12:03:31 AM »
you don't like that fact? i don't blame you. its an awkward fit for your world view

damn phone

Funny how you're only skeptical of reporters when it discomfits your worldview, but when your bias is being stroked any stray word from their mouth is gospel. Have you ever seen a person victimized by the .gov that you couldn't somehow spin so that it was their fault? Ok, I guess the retarded guy who got beat to death by the Spokane PD cop, but aside from that I'm drawing blanks.


Sorry, just catching up.  My posts were about what was legally right, not necessarily morally right.  I'me not naive enough to believe that legally right equates morally right.  And, I think you and I have a different understanding of what was happening in this case.  I read it as being a clerk helping a convicted person by providing him copies of motions from other cases he could use as examples for drafting a motion of his own.  If it was mailing him a form to fill in, I'd be with you.  In fact, I'm helping develop forms for our court to provide people so they can do things on their own without attorneys.

Can I get my halo back?   ;)

If I'm filling out a 4473 and the dude behind the counter sees I don't know what the hell I'm doing, so he shows me a copy of a correctly filled out one: is he illegally assisting me? Is "Here's the form you need, good luck in figuring out how to fill it out sucker." really the only legal thing to do here?

That being said, the law has MASSIVE discretion at every point so saying 'Well it was the right thing to do but it may have violated the letter of the law so screw that bitch" doesn't fly.

Finally, I tend to view this through a self defense lens. It's illegal to shoot someone in the face, unless you can prove it was to stop them from hurting/killing someone. It may (may) be illegal to help someone correctly fill out a form, but when the alternative is letting a man rot in jail for a crime he didn't commit that would seem to be justified.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

Triphammer

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 966
Re: Court Staffer Fired for Helping Wrongfully Convicted Man
« Reply #44 on: August 02, 2013, 01:10:00 AM »
My question is what is this "under seal"? Is it some locking of records to make sure someone can't get information to help themselves in an appeal?

RoadKingLarry

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,841
Re: Court Staffer Fired for Helping Wrongfully Convicted Man
« Reply #45 on: August 02, 2013, 02:22:52 AM »
Another small point to consider. The DNA evidence showed he didn't commit the rape. Somebody did. That somebody may well still be walking the streets. I wonder if they will expend as much energy looking for the actual perp as they did trying to make sure the other guy didn't get his new day in court.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

vaskidmark

  • National Anthem Snob
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,799
  • WTF?
Re: Re: Court Staffer Fired for Helping Wrongfully Convicted Man
« Reply #46 on: August 02, 2013, 02:35:01 AM »
....

It may (may) be illegal to help someone correctly fill out a form, but when the alternative is letting a man rot in jail for a crime he didn't commit that would seem to be justified.

Just how many times does it need to be repeated before it is understood that the issue was not "giving a form to" or even "helping someone correctly fill out a form" - so long as that help is limited to selecting the correct/most appropriate form, making sure all the boxes that need to be checked are checked, and the blanks that need to be filled in are filled in, and the like.  This does not extend to telling/suggesting specifically what words to put on the form.

And I say that only because regulating "the practice of law" serves as the basis for being able to seek redress for inadequate/erroneous legal advice.

The issues seem to be that the Clerk discussed the progress of the petition/motion in such a manner as to be providing guidance/direction on how to proceed or how to respond to certain maneuvering by the state, and that the Clerk essentially engaged in gossip about the matter to the extent that she disclosed information that the court, for reasons it saw as needful and/or appropriate, had placed under seal.  For those that are not familiar with the concept and process, information that is placed under seal is available to at least the attorneys for both sides  Look up the concept of "discovery".  It prevents Perry Mason-esque "gotcha!" moments.

There are a limited number of reasons why the court would see fit to withhold certain information from the defendant and/or the general public.  Examples would be the home address and telephone number of a witness against Whitey Bulger who was in some sort of witness protection program, and sexually explicit photographs of minor children which constituted the primary evidence against Chester the Molester.  Normally any material placed into a court record is considered a "public" record - anybody can go to the courthouse and ask to see it or get copies of it.  The court can seal the name and address so that Mr. Bulger's supporters would not have an easy time locating the witness and attempting to persuade them not to testify, or so that the newspapers do not get the names of child victims and to the everlasting embarassment of the child publish them.

The first issue boils down, as I see it, to the defendant/appellant not being able to seek redress for any incompetence or factual error committed by the Clerk.  It's called soverign immunity.  The Clerk should not be shielded from the consequences of screwing up if they screw up outside the magesterial acts of their office.  The ability to seek redress is supposed to be one of the motivators for attorneys to "get it right" - screw the pooch and feel it in the wallet.

The second issue bolis down, as I see it, to a direct challenge to the concept of the impartiality of the legal process and, coincidentally, a moral/ethical breach.  Courts have been admonished repeatedly by higher appellate levels to liberaly construe the efforts of pro se defendants/appellants, while still holding admitted Guild members to an exactingly high standard that the Guild itself has asked for.

The defendant/appellant wanted to have biological evidence DNA typed and matched between the defendant and the victim - something that was not done at trial and had not been done in the intervening years.  While there may be an "approved" or "received" form for asking that such testing be done, the court would be obliged to construe in the favor of the defendant as much as possible both the actual request and the type of testing being requested.  On the other hand, the trained monkey Guild members would not get a pass for asking for type A as opposed to types B and C DNA testing which would be expected to yield more useful (and possibly more favorable) results for their side.  Thus, the defendant/appellant did not need much more than "an" examplar of a motion/order.

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

freakazoid

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,243
Re: Court Staffer Fired for Helping Wrongfully Convicted Man
« Reply #47 on: August 02, 2013, 05:08:11 AM »
 But, how would you all feel if this was the case of a young prosecutor working on a case, and a magistrate helped out the prosecutor by giving him an example of a motion to use against a defendant?  Or a police officer coming to see a clerk/friend and getting some "under the counter" information from a sealed file to help an investigation?  A court and its staff cannot pick and choose who is worthy of helping, or who shouldn't be helped.  How could you decide? Where do you draw a line, and still make things fair to everyone?

I don't think I would feel bad at all about that. If there is evidence out there that can prove or disprove someones guilt in something, then it should be brought forward.
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

"I see a rager at least once a week." - brimic

T.O.M.

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,413
Re: Re: Court Staffer Fired for Helping Wrongfully Convicted Man
« Reply #48 on: August 02, 2013, 09:01:20 AM »
If I'm filling out a 4473 and the dude behind the counter sees I don't know what the hell I'm doing, so he shows me a copy of a correctly filled out one: is he illegally assisting me? Is "Here's the form you need, good luck in figuring out how to fill it out sucker." really the only legal thing to do here?

Honestly, I have no problem with this kind of thing.  It really helps the court case load if people were coached through some of the procedure, because I do spend an inordinate amount of time addressing incorrect filings and procedural errors.  That said, it is probably debatable as to whether or not that type of action could be construed as a violation.

That being said, the law has MASSIVE discretion at every point so saying 'Well it was the right thing to do but it may have violated the letter of the law so screw that bitch" doesn't fly.

Laws are being put in place that severely curtail the discretion of judges and courts.  Take for example the traffic court I handle one day a week in Juvenile Court.  I have no discretion at all on a kid who gets any ticket during the first six months he's got a license.  Mandatory six month suspension.  Doesn't matter if it's speeding, reckless operation, or my personal favorite...improper backing.  No discretion.  When I tried once to use some common sense (the improper backing case), the bureau of motor vehicles not only suspended the license by administrative action, but also wrote to my judge advising him of my attempts to circumvent the law.  Anyways, I digress...

As to to saying "screw the bitch," I don't think I went that far.  In fact, my original post was that the action was wrong, but firing her went too far.  There are ways to take action short of what this court did.  A reprimand in a file would have taken care of the issue, and all would have been done, and this discussion wouldn't be taking place.  But, as a strong believer in personal accountability, I believe that if you choose to break the rules, for any reason including "all the right reasons," you need to man up and accept the consequences for the choice you made.
No, I'm not mtnbkr.  ;)

a.k.a. "our resident Legal Smeagol."...thanks BryanP
"Anybody can give legal advice - but only licensed attorneys can sell it."...vaskidmark

T.O.M.

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,413
Re: Court Staffer Fired for Helping Wrongfully Convicted Man
« Reply #49 on: August 02, 2013, 09:08:45 AM »
My question is what is this "under seal"? Is it some locking of records to make sure someone can't get information to help themselves in an appeal?

Skid's description is good, but I want to add something.  Often times, a file is sealed for the protection of a person involved in a case.  Not just personal information, like addresses, to protect witnesses from intimidation or retaliation.  But in many of the cases I see in probate and juvenile court, files are sealed to protect sensitive information about people, like psychological evaluations or personal information.  Many times when I'm working in juvenile court, I have available (under seal) a report from a probation officer that includes what's titled a "social history."  This includes detailed family information and history, and also sensitive information about the juvenile's life.  All the ugly details about any kind of abuse, physical, sexual, or otherwise.  It's the kind of thing that you wouldn't want the general public to see, but is really helpful to a court when making decisions about punishment and treatment for a young person getting into trouble. 

If the file the clerk accessed was under seal, that means somehow, a judge made a decision that the information in that file was to be excepted from public records laws for the protection of the individuals involved.  For this clerk to copy documents from such a file and hand them out to someone, even "for the right reasons", well I think that's a big deal.
No, I'm not mtnbkr.  ;)

a.k.a. "our resident Legal Smeagol."...thanks BryanP
"Anybody can give legal advice - but only licensed attorneys can sell it."...vaskidmark