How to not recruit people for jobs

[MillCreek]

So I get a call out of the blue from a HR recruiter who works for a large nationwide healthcare professional liability insurance company.  She brightly tells me that they found my profile on LinkedIn, and wanted to tell me about a job in the local area that just came open.  I am aware of the job and know that it is way under my experience and qualifications level.  I told that to the recruiter and said that rather than wasting everyone's time, why don't you tell me the salary range right now, and I can tell you if I would even consider it, bearing in mind that I am happy where I am.  She told me that I would have to apply online for the position and have an interview with an offer before they would tell me the salary range.  I told her that I just could not work for a company that could not answer a simple question about salary range and I would not be applying.  Heck, when I am hiring, we post the salary range right on the website so people know that up front before applying.

[Scout26]

Yep, trying to see how low you will go....

[KD5NRH]

How about the "desired salary range" question on applications?  What sort of idiot has an upper bound? 

It's not like any of them have ever offered me a reasonable compromise like splitting the difference between their minimum and my maximum ((∞-[min_offer])/2)+[min_offer]

[Balog]

So I get a call out of the blue from a HR recruiter who works for a large nationwide healthcare professional liability insurance company.  She brightly tells me that they found my profile on LinkedIn, and wanted to tell me about a job in the local area that just came open.  I am aware of the job and know that it is way under my experience and qualifications level.  I told that to the recruiter and said that rather than wasting everyone's time, why don't you tell me the salary range right now, and I can tell you if I would even consider it, bearing in mind that I am happy where I am.  She told me that I would have to apply online for the position and have an interview with an offer before they would tell me the salary range.  I told her that I just could not work for a company that could not answer a simple question about salary range and I would not be applying.  Heck, when I am hiring, we post the salary range right on the website so people know that up front before applying.

Incredibly annoying, and frankly says that the company is either not familiar with going rates or trying to lowball someone who doesn't know their worth.

[lupinus]

I'd tell um to screw off. Or fill out an application with absurdities just for s&g's.

They know damn good and we'll what the salary range is. And if you are worth the time to call you are worth telling the ballpark salary and benefits. Otherwise, fug'm.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Much of the hiring process is now run by experts. They do assessments . I had a most delightful conversation with a recruiter today.  I hate job hunting with a passion.


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[Balog]

I'd tell um to screw off. Or fill out an application with absurdities just for s&g's.

They know damn good and we'll what the salary range is. And if you are worth the time to call you are worth telling the ballpark salary and benefits. Otherwise, fug'm.

Benefits are a big one, especially with a couple kids. I make folks send a summary of their benefits plan with the offer letter, salary alone is nowhere near the whole picture.

[charby]

Incredibly annoying, and frankly says that the company is either not familiar with going rates or trying to lowball someone who doesn't know their worth.

I get about two cold calls/emails weekly based on my LinkedIn profile similar to what Millcreek experiences. The area where I live is heavy on IT jobs but short on a talent pool, problem is no one pays very well for IT jobs. So I never get an answer when I ask what the salary range is, I don't get why that is a question that isn't answered.

[Balog]

I get about two cold calls/emails weekly based on my LinkedIn profile similar to what Millcreek experiences. The area where I live is heavy on IT jobs but short on a talent pool, problem is no one pays very well for IT jobs. So I never get an answer when I ask what the salary range is, I don't get why that is a question that isn't answered.

Reminds me of people who list their gun/bass/car/whatever without a price. "Make me an offer, but no lowballs."

But fcking say how much you want!

[Boomhauer]

How about the "desired salary range" question on applications?  What sort of idiot has an upper bound? 

That bullshit and not providing salary/benefits information pisses me off. What is the desired salary range for me? a few million per year. Since that ain't happening, just tell me what you are willing to *expletive deleted*ing pay.
+

*expletive deleted*ing HR and hiring fun and games bullshit...

[Calumus]

I get about two cold calls/emails weekly based on my LinkedIn profile similar to what Millcreek experiences. The area where I live is heavy on IT jobs but short on a talent pool, problem is no one pays very well for IT jobs. So I never get an answer when I ask what the salary range is, I don't get why that is a question that isn't answered.

I have a feeling that this is tactic to allow them to say that there's obviously a shortage of IT workers, so please give us more H1B's.

[Ned Hamford]

I've hit that a ton of times for the legal profession in New York. Sure entry isn't the end but if the non flexible start can be beat by a chain store cashier and there is no disclosure about long term compensation... Yah. You just wasted both our time.
Who the heck takes those jobs...

[Monkeyleg]

Ten years ago, a very large printing company with an in-house photo studio was interested in interviewing me for a position as studio manager.  I was skeptical, but went. In the first interview, the guy asked me about salary, and I have him a range. I was called back for a second interview with a higher-up. That went well, and I was called for a third interview.

When we got down to details, he asked again about salary. I told him again the range, and he said this was an A2 position, and it paid X, which was considerably less than the range I'd mentioned. I asked about vacation, and was told that it was a week after one year and two weeks after five. No negotiating, he said, as that was the vacation policy for a A2 position. Sick leave? There was none.

I don't know why he wasted my time, his and his supervisor's when their pay was so far below my range. That, and they weren't looking for a manager, but a salesman. 

[Hawkmoon]

How about the "desired salary range" question on applications?  What sort of idiot has an upper bound? 

A: "How much ya got?"

[roo_ster]

I have a feeling that this is tactic to allow them to say that there's obviously a shortage of IT workers, so please give us more H1B's.

Ayup.

Ol' charby is fielding the required calls they gotta make to show they tried.  Nice way to respect charby's time.

Did I mention I despise those who set up complex systems so that those on the inside can bugger those on the outside?

[Brad Johnson]

Another way to not hire good personnel is to post a pathetically generic requisition, then not return phone calls to applicants requesting additional information/clarification. Also, posting the requisition then not acting on it in any way, shape, or form for 90-120 days is a nice plus.

Brad

[mtnbkr]

Ayup.

Ol' charby is fielding the required calls they gotta make to show they tried.  Nice way to respect charby's time.

Did I mention I despise those who set up complex systems so that those on the inside can bugger those on the outside?

Every company I've ever worked for has required a modicum of effort on hiring even when we have a preferred candidate for the position.  Thou shalt not hire without a job posting.  What do you do?  You post an impossible job req with a low salary.  After nobody bites, you hire the person you wanted all along.  I did that this Summer.

Chris

[Firethorn]

Every company I've ever worked for has required a modicum of effort on hiring even when we have a preferred candidate for the position.  Thou shalt not hire without a job posting.  What do you do?  You post an impossible job req with a low salary.  After nobody bites, you hire the person you wanted all along.  I did that this Summer.

Chris

Just what I was going to say.  I've also seen where you basically use the preferred person's resume as the job requirements.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Very true. I had to interview for a position once that I was already working in. "To make it look good"


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[charby]

I have a feeling that this is tactic to allow them to say that there's obviously a shortage of IT workers, so please give us more H1B's.

I think that tactic is going to backfire because the local community college and private university (Drake) have both responded with press releases that they are willing to work with the local companies in having programs to take care of the IT talent shortage.

Of course almost every comment from the viewers of the news articles is if they would pay more there wouldn't be a talent shortage.

[Firethorn]

Of course almost every comment from the viewers of the news articles is if they would pay more there wouldn't be a talent shortage.

IE "Stop offering darn near minimum wage to work in one of the most expensive areas of the country".

[charby]

IE "Stop offering darn near minimum wage to work in one of the most expensive areas of the country".

Well the Des Moines area is actually one of the cheaper "metro" places to live in the US according to the latest report I read. A $80k salary would go a very long way, unfortunately most of these IT jobs that have a salary posted are usually under $35k for a job that should pay $80k.

[KD5NRH]

IE "Stop offering darn near minimum wage to work in one of the most expensive areas of the country".

I tend to respond with something along the lines of "stop living in one of the most expensive areas of the country if you won't develop more than minimum wage skills."

Of course, I've also told more than one business I wouldn't go work for them in a high-COL area because I considered them idiots for not putting their completely location-independent facilities to a place where their taxes would be six figures lower and employees could live a lot better on the same wages.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Of course almost every comment from the viewers of the news articles is if they would pay more there wouldn't be a talent shortage.

What makes these people think the companies can afford to pay more?  Are the employers supposed to wave a magic wand and wish more payroll budget into existence?  'Cause that's totally how business works. 

I've never worked in IT, but in engineering there's a very similar situation going on.  Job seekers say they can't get an employer to hire them at a fair wage.  Companies say they can't find qualified workers at a fair wage.  So the unemployed stay unemployed, and the unstaffed projects stay unstaffed.  Everyone loses because nobody can agree on what's fair.

[Firethorn]

I tend to respond with something along the lines of "stop living in one of the most expensive areas of the country if you won't develop more than minimum wage skills."

You're looking at the individual, I'm looking at the company that's wondering why it can't find US labor for what they want done, where they want it done.

Kind of like the guy on the news complaining about not being able to find or retain experienced welders, so obviously there must be a shortage - then you find out that he only wants to pay $7.75/hour for them.  And no, not as a 'proving' wage for 2 weeks or whatever while you figure out whether they can actually weld.  A survey of other businesses offering higher wages weren't having that problem...

What makes these people think the companies can afford to pay more?  Are the employers just supposed to wave a magic wand and wish more payroll budget into existence?  'Cause that's totally how business works.

Then they deserve to go under if their business model depends on hiring STEM graduates at minimum wage.