Author Topic: Turn Off Your AC and Save the Earth!  (Read 7281 times)

Ben

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Turn Off Your AC and Save the Earth!
« on: June 12, 2017, 10:11:34 PM »
It's the time of the year again for the nanny nagging environazis to tell us to return to the 19th century and turn off our AC.

I do have to say that this article was good in the sense that it spurred some interesting discussion in the comment section. While there was the usual irrational "the Earth is dying!" stuff, there was actually some rational discussion from both sides, and I was pleasantly surprised by some of the arguments from the enviro side that were more along the lines of relaxed dress codes in offices and small things like turning the thermostat up just a degree or two or other small energy efficient things that don't involve returning to the stone age.

I think it's funny that often the "turn off the AC" people seem to have no grasp of the climate extremes in the US and that it was AC that allowed populations to grow in areas that would otherwise be sparsely inhabited, and were AC magically turned off tomorrow, would see massive out-migrations to more hospitable places.

The article did make the good point that we no longer build homes and offices to work with climate because we just crank the AC. I'm no environazi, but it makes a lot of sense to me to build for good cross ventilation for example, and also like they used to build, with higher and lower windows working together to push out the heat. Our last building at work was LEEDS Gold or whatever, and while I was rolling my eyes regarding that and ready to buy my own window AC unit for my office, I was very surprised to find that the high/low windows combined with skylights on a temperature sensor kept the place cool even on the hottest days. In fact while everyone was prepared to make fun of me (I always kept the AC blasting in my previous office) I ended up making fun of them, because they ended up being cold all the time as the building stayed pretty close to 72-76 all year just via the architecture.

Anyway, I hate the nannies doing the "ban AC" thing, but do think that it makes sense to do things like build for efficiency (and have men not wear suits in the Summer!).

https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2013/07/20/how-live-without-air-conditioning/4DqSdLtDiJ4iAn29lNCjaI/story.html
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Fly320s

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Re: Turn Off Your AC and Save the Earth!
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2017, 10:19:19 PM »
Turn off your AC.

No.  No effing way.  Even here in the frozen north we need AC.  It was 95 here today.  Modern houses are designed to use AC, not to use windows and convection current to keep the house cool.
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zahc

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Re: Turn Off Your AC and Save the Earth!
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2017, 10:30:38 PM »
 it's funny how standards differ.

In Japan their houses are built like RVs, with little one-room AC units (if that) for the summer and they use space heaters and kotatsu's in the winter. The houses are not really built around central HVAC so insulation is almost a moot point... there's not much climate to "keep in". Our standards in America are simply higher, even for the cheapest house. Nobody would even contemplate building a Japan-like house in America, even if they could get it past code.

On the other hand, Americans are happy with toilets that are so basic, Japanese people can't buy them at any price. Even the public restroom toilets have heated seats.

Plumbing and electrical cartels ( l mean associations) regularly keep inching the standards up "better" and more expensive every decade. It makes me wonder where equilibrium might be if it weren't for codes (and the mortgage deduction). I expect pretty soon all of our houses will have vacuum insulated walls, the entire base board will be 20A GFCI receptacles on dedicated circuits, and every room will require a full bathroom, even though the standard 1950's house in Dallas seemed to get along with a 50A service panel and maybe a window unit or something.

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Regolith

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Re: Turn Off Your AC and Save the Earth!
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2017, 10:37:52 PM »


You can pry my AC out of my cold, dead hands.
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Ben

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Re: Turn Off Your AC and Save the Earth!
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2017, 11:11:25 PM »
No.  No effing way.  Even here in the frozen north we need AC.  It was 95 here today.  Modern houses are designed to use AC, not to use windows and convection current to keep the house cool.

Well,  I don't want to do without it either. I have trouble sleeping when it's hot, so in these parts, in July and August, especially in a 2nd story bedroom, the AC needs to kick on throughout the night to keep it a comfortable sleeping temperature for me because even if it cools into the high 60s outside at night, the house is still the high 70s to even low 80s. However I also suffer dry mouth and sore throats from the AC running at night. If the house were just designed a little better to get some of that cooler night air breezing through, the AC probably wouldn't run after midnight and also wouldn't turn on as early in the morning. Right now in June, I can cut the AC around 9-10PM or so, but in August it can still be 90 outside at that time.

If I can get cool natural air from outside, that's my preference. If I can't, the AC comes on. If I lived back East or down South, I guarantee you the AC would be running day and night throughout the Summer, because I hate humid heat.
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makattak

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Re:
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2017, 11:36:01 PM »
It takes a lot more energy to warm a home from 0° to 70° than it does to cool from 100° to 70°.

Maybe we should stop building in Boston, New York, Philly, Chicago, Minneapolis, Detroit....

You know,  if we were actually concerned about energy cost to control inside climates.

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mtnbkr

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Re: Turn Off Your AC and Save the Earth!
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2017, 05:57:09 AM »
It takes a lot more energy to warm a home from 0° to 70° than it does to cool from 100° to 70°.

Except that the only way a house is getting much below 50deg is if it is uninhabited, gets no sun load, and has no heat producing items inside (electronics, stove cooking meals, etc).  I know from experience a modern home will remain well above freezing without an operational furnace in the middle of winter.

Chris

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Re: Turn Off Your AC and Save the Earth!
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2017, 06:10:45 AM »
Except that the only way a house is getting much below 50deg is if it is uninhabited, gets no sun load, and has no heat producing items inside (electronics, stove cooking meals, etc).  I know from experience a modern home will remain well above freezing without an operational furnace in the middle of winter.

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We installed the woodstove before the next winter.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Turn Off Your AC and Save the Earth!
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2017, 06:40:31 AM »
Except that the only way a house is getting much below 50deg is if it is uninhabited, gets no sun load, and has no heat producing items inside (electronics, stove cooking meals, etc).  I know from experience a modern home will remain well above freezing without an operational furnace in the middle of winter.

Chris


In what climate?
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K Frame

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Re: Turn Off Your AC and Save the Earth!
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2017, 07:28:51 AM »
Interesting article.

Not one I agree with, but interesting article.

But, as the article points out, it really is shocking just how much AC has impacted how we live, from architecture to business to even how we eat in the summer.
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HankB

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Re: Turn Off Your AC and Save the Earth!
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2017, 08:00:17 AM »
. . . On the other hand, Americans are happy with toilets that are so basic, Japanese people can't buy them at any price. Even the public restroom toilets have heated seats . . . 
You haven't been to Japan, have you?

The toilets in the hotels I stayed in - not flophouses, but GOOD hotels - had toilets that wouldn't be out of place in any American house. The only unusual bathroom amenity was a heated mirror, so it didn't fog up when you took a hot shower.

As for PUBLIC toilets . . . in many places like train stations and airport terminals, they were porcelain holes in the ground to stand or squat over.

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freakazoid

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Re: Turn Off Your AC and Save the Earth!
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2017, 08:34:48 AM »
You haven't been to Japan, have you?

The toilets in the hotels I stayed in - not flophouses, but GOOD hotels - had toilets that wouldn't be out of place in any American house. The only unusual bathroom amenity was a heated mirror, so it didn't fog up when you took a hot shower.

As for PUBLIC toilets . . . in many places like train stations and airport terminals, they were porcelain holes in the ground to stand or squat over.



I have only seen that type once in Japan, and it was at an airport. Everywhere else here has used regular modern toilets.
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K Frame

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Re: Turn Off Your AC and Save the Earth!
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2017, 08:55:50 AM »

In what climate?

I'd say Mid Atlantic, as that's where Mtnbkr lives.

The situation would be a lot different in New England or the midwest where temperatures can drop below zero for days on end.
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Ben

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Re: Turn Off Your AC and Save the Earth!
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2017, 09:09:20 AM »
Interesting article.

Not one I agree with, but interesting article.

But, as the article points out, it really is shocking just how much AC has impacted how we live, from architecture to business to even how we eat in the summer.

Just for clarity, I don't agree with the article either as the bias in it is obvious. I also just thought it was interesting from the same perspective as you, that it did bring up some interesting points on how powerful AC's influence has been.

Technology like cars, electricity, and the phone are obvious, but it's easy to just lump AC into the "electricity" category. The article got me to wondering just how many areas of the US would have different populations if it didn't exist.

It also kinda sorta ties in to my topic on Modern Southwest architecture. Even though all those homes have central AC, they still have designs that work with the climate (like outside eating and entertaining). So we can actually have architecture that is "the best of both worlds", but in many areas we don't. I don't know, but assume, that is mostly cost driven, as with AC, you can simply design for indoor comfort and simpler (and even inefficient) floorplans.

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Kingcreek

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Re: Turn Off Your AC and Save the Earth!
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2017, 10:58:27 AM »
93 and Midwest humid today. My AC is running (albeit with programmable thermostat)
and my dog has a fan in the insulated indoor part of the indoor/outdoor kennel.
I don't care how much electricity I'm using, its for comfort dammit.
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K Frame

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Re: Turn Off Your AC and Save the Earth!
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2017, 11:25:19 AM »
"It also kinda sorta ties in to my topic on Modern Southwest architecture. Even though all those homes have central AC, they still have designs that work with the climate (like outside eating and entertaining). So we can actually have architecture that is "the best of both worlds", but in many areas we don't."

Exactly.

Architecture, especially in areas where it gets not only hot but ungodly humid, like Washington, DC, has really changed dramatically since the introduction of the air conditioner.

For many years rooms got smaller, especially if the house was to be served by window shakers instead of central air. That's changing now that central air is more common, and floor plans are opening up a lot.

Porches pretty much disappeared, as did balconies. That's also changing, thankfully.

Ceiling heights standardized at 8 feet.

Windows got a lot smaller, and there were in most cases a lot fewer of them.

In a lot of ways air conditioning gave rise to the cookie cutter house.

I used to think I'd love to have a house like the one I grew up in, or the one Mom lived in for years -- a big, old, Victorian with tons of charm, eclectic rooms, high ceilings, etc.

Now as I'm getting older I realize that no, I do not want that, not only because it's a pain in the ass to take care of, you also generally have to give up central air conditioning.
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mtnbkr

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Re: Turn Off Your AC and Save the Earth!
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2017, 11:29:27 AM »

In what climate?

This was SW VA (Appalachian Mountains).  Daytime temps were in the 20-30ish range, nighttime temps were high teens to low twenties. 

Chris

Ben

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Re: Turn Off Your AC and Save the Earth!
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2017, 11:30:14 AM »

Now as I'm getting older I realize that no, I do not want that, not only because it's a pain in the ass to take care of, you also generally have to give up central air conditioning.

"Old" is also something the anti-AC people don't seem to care about (they're pushing grandma off the cliff!!). Climate control has kept a lot of the elderly alive longer. Was it around five years ago that there was an anomalous heatwave somewhere in France that had the elderly there dropping like flies because few places in the region had AC?
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mtnbkr

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Re: Turn Off Your AC and Save the Earth!
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2017, 11:31:39 AM »
I'd say Mid Atlantic, as that's where Mtnbkr lives.

SW VA, where my folks lived.  I was in college at the time and hadn't moved to NoVA yet.

Chris

HankB

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Re: Turn Off Your AC and Save the Earth!
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2017, 11:45:46 AM »
"Old" is also something the anti-AC people don't seem to care about (they're pushing grandma off the cliff!!). Climate control has kept a lot of the elderly alive longer. Was it around five years ago that there was an anomalous heatwave somewhere in France that had the elderly there dropping like flies because few places in the region had AC?
Chicago 1995

Quote
The 1995 Chicago heat wave was a heat wave which led to 739 heat-related deaths in Chicago over a period of five days. Most of the victims of the heat wave were elderly poor residents of the city, who could not afford air conditioning and did not open windows or sleep outside for fear of crime.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Chicago_heat_wave
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makattak

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Re: Turn Off Your AC and Save the Earth!
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2017, 11:48:04 AM »
Chicago 1995

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Chicago_heat_wave


No, France, 2003.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_European_heat_wave

14,802 deaths trump 739.

(According to Wiki, over 70,000 Europeans were killed in that heat wave.)
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

makattak

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Re: Turn Off Your AC and Save the Earth!
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2017, 12:00:56 PM »
No, France, 2003.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_European_heat_wave

14,802 deaths trump 739.

(According to Wiki, over 70,000 Europeans were killed in that heat wave.)

Another note: The UNBELIEVABLE HEATWAVE that killed all those people featured a RECORD HIGH in Auxerre, France (highest of the reported ones in the article) of 103°F.

Now, that's hot, but as we well know, multiple locations in the US have that as AVERAGE highs for the month of August. (AZ, Nevada, etc...)

To give an example of how Europe can afford to eschew air conditioning (the article mentions that France almost always has cool evenings) while the U.S. has a much more varied climate.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

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Re: Turn Off Your AC and Save the Earth!
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2017, 12:21:13 PM »
"Old" is also something the anti-AC people don't seem to care about (they're pushing grandma off the cliff!!). Climate control has kept a lot of the elderly alive longer. Was it around five years ago that there was an anomalous heatwave somewhere in France that had the elderly there dropping like flies because few places in the region had AC?

I had a spare drop-in-a-double-hung-window AC unit that plugged into a regular 110 outlet I loaned to an elderly friend with pulmonary problems.  After that summer, she told me it was a real life-saver.  Her words.

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mtnbkr

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Re: Turn Off Your AC and Save the Earth!
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2017, 12:22:35 PM »
FWIW, the UK is one of those "light-AC-use" countries because their weather is so mild year-round.  I've been there in the middle of Winter and the middle of Summer.  Both times, the temps were significantly milder than the temps back home.  Winter was roughly 30-45deg (home was in the 20s) and Summer was 70-82 (home hit 102 my first day back).  During the Summer, they don't really use AC because they only hit the 80s for a short period of time.  My company's global HQ was about 80deg during the day.  Various small stores and shops were uncooled as well, though places like Harrods were cooled effectively.  As mentioned above, they don't have the weather extremes we have here.

Chris

K Frame

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Re: Turn Off Your AC and Save the Earth!
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2017, 12:32:55 PM »
Yep, and yet it's the Euroweenies who look at AC usage in the US and they get all sanctimonious because we depend on AC so much.

Most Europeans I know in this area (DC metro) have told me that they were absolutely stunned when they were confronted with their first DC summer.

One woman I worked with and who came from Germany in her mid 20s said her first summer here she ended up in hospital with heat stroke because she wasn't ready for it.

It's no mistake that in the days prior to AC, many European governments considered a diplomatic posting to Washington to be a tropical posting.
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