any human resources folks handy

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

if an employee were to avail themselves of a doctors excuse for light duty and or disability would detailing cars on the side make that a sketchy practice?  set him up for bye bye? maybe through the insurance company going after him?  your thoughts are invited and welcomed

[Werewolf]

if an employee were to avail themselves of a doctors excuse for light duty and or disability would detailing cars on the side make that a sketchy practice?  set him up for bye bye? maybe through the insurance company going after him?  your thoughts are invited and welcomed

I'm not HR but if I caught an employee doing that they'd be fired and I would encourage the insurance company to take the case to the DA and prosecute for insurance fraud to the full extent of the law.

Integrity - doing the right thing even when no one is looking.

On the other hand maybe detailing a car would be considered light duty in which case:

No Harm - No Foul

[Brad Johnson]

if an employee were to avail themselves of a doctors excuse for light duty and or disability would detailing cars on the side make that a sketchy practice?  set him up for bye bye? maybe through the insurance company going after him?  your thoughts are invited and welcomed

Yes, yes, and yes.

Not only would one find themselves unemployed, they would also A) suddenly find themselves ineligible for unemployment benefits, and B) enjoy the rousing fun of an insurance fraud suit.

Brad

[AJ Dual]

What exactly is "car detailing"?

Is it the whole shebang? "Porter Service" Vac, shampoo, wash, wax, wheel scrub? Then that's not "light duty". Termination & fraud as others have said.

If it's sitting on a chair carefully applying pinstripe tape, or doing it freehand, then that might be "light duty".

[never_retreat]

if an employee were to avail themselves of a doctors excuse for light duty and or disability would detailing cars on the side make that a sketchy practice?  set him up for bye bye? maybe through the insurance company going after him?  your thoughts are invited and welcomed

I guess it would depend on what the doctor said they couldn't do. If they have back problems and the doc says don't lift more than 30 lbs, than sure you could still wash cars. IMO most people I have known with back problems are in more pain siting around than doing lite work.
My old boss was an example of that. Could not drive for more than 45 min without pain. I used to mow his lawn once a week because we couldn't take the bounce of the tractor. He could still push mow and weed wack.

[Ryan in Maine]

Sketchy? Yeah. Dismissal? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on your manager. Insurance company going after you? Wouldn't be surprised.

Listen to Brad.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

thank you all. its kinda delicate.  hes one of the very few minority employees. and he was on thin ice and i suspect hes using this as a safety net. hard/bad to fire the hurt guy.

[vaskidmark]

hard/bad to fire the hurt guy.

Only if you allow emotions to rule, which is setting you up for problems (disparate treatment primarily) with the next person who needs to be fired.

As others have said, 1) look at exactly what restrictions/limitations the doc has prescribed, 2) whether the current job can handle those as reasonable accomodations, 3) whether or not the side job violates the restrictions/limitations ordered by the doc.

Does the company have any policy about prior permission for side jobs?  Does your pay to him reduce during the time he is on "light duty"?  Is he cutting hours from you to work detailing cars?  #1 & #3 could be fraud issues, while #2 has all sorts of ramifications both good & bad for him and you.

You can actually get good info from your state office of vocational rehabilitation and office of rights for the disabled (do not go to Workers Comp unless you want the expense and headaches).  Your health insurance carrier can also do a work evaluation to see if the side job might interfere with the employee's ability to return to full job capacity, or delay that result.

For additional consideration I will reveal the weasely ways HR could either get rid of the guy or keep him on the pasyroll, depending on which was your desire.

stay safe.

skidmark

[Antibubba]

As long as one hand stays on the walker at all times, you should be okay.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

what kinda consideration?   i wanna 86 him

[vaskidmark]

what kinda consideration?   i wanna 86 him

OK, so you considered it - that's good enough for me.

I'm presuming he is an employee of your home repair type gig.  Am I correct?

Sic the company health insurance folks on him for a work performance capability evaluation - they will see if what he is doing on the outside job exceeds his light duty limitation.  You can fire him for fraud or conduct unbecoming if they say he was in essence scamming you.

Fire him because essential portions of the job description cannot be performed while on light duty.  You do have a written job description, don't you?  If not, check with the unions <spit> to see what they have for similar positions.

Fire him because he did not get approval for an outside job, if that was in your company handbook.  If that's not there (permission for outside work or handbook) get it there ASAP.  PM me for free assistance (it's merely a cut&paste job).

If you have documented everything he has screwed up, just add this to the list and break the camel's back with it.  You do document screwups, right?

Document that he is shorting you hours from a full 40 per week to get to the side job.  Helps even more if he is fudging his time, which is criminal fraud.  (one time is usually a sketchy reason for temination, more than once is a pattern of behavior - know what I mean?)

Is he making statements (or are other employees alleging he has made statements) that he can get around certain distasteful aspects of his job due to "light duty" status?  Fire him for insubordination.

Remember, Virginia is not a right-to-work state.  You can fire him because it is a day ending in the letter "Y" so long as he cannot prove you did it based on his race or medical condition alone (presuming all other "protected" classes do not come into play).

Hope these ideas help.

stay safe.

skidmark

[slugcatcher]

Define "light duty" first. What does the doctor say you can't do?

[MechAg94]

Define "light duty" first. What does the doctor say you can't do?

Exactly.  The short answer in my company is there is no "light duty".  You can either do your job or not. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

there is a wild card in the deck.  hes a protected species. in a place with so few protected species as to qualify him as an endangered species. we both work for a nonprofit, i got him the job go figure.  i think i'll let his disability claim go through and have him collect some checks then get the insurance to go after him for fraud.  hes not bright/arrogant  the cars hes detailing on the side are for other foundation employees/managers. easy to prove

[ilbob]

if an employee were to avail themselves of a doctors excuse for light duty and or disability would detailing cars on the side make that a sketchy practice?  set him up for bye bye? maybe through the insurance company going after him?  your thoughts are invited and welcomed

Not HR.

The devil is in the details. Light duty means lighter than the normal job you have, and is defined by the doctor's evaluation.

I could see a car detailing job being light duty especially if it was part time and done at a leisurely pace.

In any case, unless there is some evidence of outright fraud going on, it is best not to worry too much about this kind of thing. Unless you are a doctor, or maybe a PT, you don't have the professional skills to know whther what he is doing is appropriate or not.

[vaskidmark]

there is a wild card in the deck.  hes a protected species. in a place with so few protected species as to qualify him as an endangered species. we both work for a nonprofit, i got him the job go figure.  i think i'll let his disability claim go through and have him collect some checks then get the insurance to go after him for fraud.  hes not bright/arrogant  the cars hes detailing on the side are for other foundation employees/managers. easy to prove

Be extra careful about this.  Nonprofits have funding streams that make doing personal work for other employees a possible no-no.  Also, doing personal work for a manager, especially his manager, is frowned upon both ethically and legally.  If he is working at discounted rates (when compared to the average rate for commercial detailing work) it becomes even more of a problem.

You do not need to confer with HR as much as you need to have your legal beagle look into the work he is doing and how much it exposes the nonprofit to liability - which may be your way of terminating him in spite of his species issues.

If nothing else, if you are his manager you can corner him into either stopping the side work for other employees or working elsewhere.  See which he picks - if he stays on you have another documented disciplinary issue; if he leaves you have a win.

stay safe.

skidmark

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

wanna hear the best trick i ever saw for getting rid of a problem?  once upon a time it was pretty common for superintendants of big housing developments to extort a house from their suppliers. or face problems.  one particular guy was rejecting prefab staircase for no reason in an effort to get compliance. its a pain  you gotta ship a new one and pu the old one.  the boss asked about it and i explained it to him. he asked for a meeting with the clown.  guy was suspicious at first but the old man told him it appeared he had a keen eye for detail and he really needed someone like that at the plant. back then he was getting about 30-35 k. he said i could start you at 45 k and the fool looked smug  then the old man sunk the hook.  but i need you to start right away.he hemed and hawed  said he needed to give hylton 2 weeks notice  the old man said "how about if i make it 60 k? done deal.  he worked him 2 weeks then fired him.  he was no longer a problem at our jobsites and all it cost was a lil over 2 grand

[Matthew Carberry]

Exactly.  The short answer in my company is there is no "light duty".  You can either do your job or not. 

Hmmph.

Duty or duty not, there is no "light".