Author Topic: So,how do you pick an attorney?  (Read 8783 times)

onions!

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So,how do you pick an attorney?
« on: December 26, 2007, 06:02:18 AM »
I find myself in need of the services of an attorney.A new neighbor & I are having a dispute over an access easment & it's finally become a real problem.Not knowing where to turn,I contacted my Citys' housing/building department.They suggested that it was a civil matter & that I should contact my title insurance,that it was their baliwick.O.K.,14 irritating weeks later I was informed that the matter was criminal-not civil-that the easment was in place & that I should seek the services of a criminal attorney.O.K. fine,says I.Now,how the heck do I pick one?

My circle of friends & associates apparently includes no one who has ever needed legal services other than wills,trusts,& such.A couple of bankruptcys as well.Whatever.

The local phone book has dozens of pages of attorneys & well,I'd rather not just pick one.

That said,word of mouth isn't an option,I'd REALLY rather not throw a dart @ the phone book,&,though there are a pair of law offices within a mile of me,I don't want to pick one just because they're close by.

I did ask my title insurance's attorney if she had a recomendation for a local criminal attorney but she gave me nothing.CYA?

Any thought?Ideas?

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Fly320s

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Re: So,how do you pick an attorney?
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2007, 06:12:16 AM »
Local or state BAR association?  Phone book or internet.

They should be able to give you names for attorneys who can handle your case.
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jeepmor

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Re: So, how do you pick an attorney?
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2007, 06:39:19 AM »
Talk to a couple lawyers at the minimum.  Prices will vary widely and I'd pay for two consultations at the least.  You need an attorney that specializes in contract law for construction and/or real estate.  Even then, these attornies may not handle criminal law in their firm.  You should then be able to get a referral from them to another firm that does. 

You can call an office and give a 10 second spiel about your case and the secretary should know if they can handle it, then make an consultation appointment from there or ask for a referral.  Shouldn't take you more than 10 or so phone calls to find the specialist you need based on the information you provide.  Should go better than the phonebook dart, but you have to start somewhere.

Quickly skimming the attorney section in my phonebook, there is no shortage of service providers. 
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Bogie

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Re: So,how do you pick an attorney?
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2007, 08:36:05 AM »
Buy donuts for the nice people at the courthouse where the deeds are kept.
 
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Tallpine

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Re: So,how do you pick an attorney?
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2007, 08:53:52 AM »
Well, if you need a criminal attorney for an easement issue, it must have already progressed to the the cutting torches and guns stage ...  shocked
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Re: So,how do you pick an attorney?
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2007, 09:10:26 AM »
Well, if you need a criminal attorney for an easement issue, it must have already progressed to the the cutting torches and guns stage ...  shocked

That was my thought.  At least to me, criminal court=charges being pressed, and I'm not talking about claymores here(though they might also be involved).

Are they talking about criminal law on your or your neighbor?

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Re: So,how do you pick an attorney?
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2007, 09:36:12 AM »
I forgot to mention that I realize that there are many,many lawyers listed in the phone book that can technically do the job.That said,I also realize that like mechanics,doctors,& candlestick makers lawyers come in all ranges of eptitude.& since I'm going to spend my money I want the most qualified I can afford.

From what little I know about the BAR Association I gather that it's both a regulatory board &,because it's made up of lawyers trying to self promote their profession,is not to be trusted to be used as a tool to find a couple of qualified attorneys to pick from.It may be a partially helpful tool along the lines of the BBB.

I like your idea Bogie.Food bribes to the people that see the kind of lawyers I could use.Unfortunately,'tis the wrong season for food bribes.A month ago & a month from now food set out will disappear quickly.Right now everyone is stuffed.It's worth a trip to the Registrar of Deeds office to ask though.Thanks for the idea.

Firethorn & Tallpine?I'm the one being tresspassed against.I've been very out of character in biting a hole through my tongue in my face to face dealings w/the neighbor.In part because I want to do this the "right" way & because I'm a single guy,38years old,who is gone for 12 hours/day.The neighbors are 10-15 years younger & there are ALWAYS girlfriends & booze over there.& there are three or four guys that live there working both day & night shifts.

I figure that if it turns physical then I lose.One way or another.Hence the search.

BTW,I have considered using my plow to push their crap into their pool.   grin

Typhoon

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Re: So,how do you pick an attorney?
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2007, 10:17:14 AM »
The only time that you should need a personal, criminal attorney is if you are charged with (or at risk of being charged with) doing something illegal.  Private parties cannot charge someone else with a criminal offense. 

If someone is trespassing on your property, you need to contact the police/district attorney/city attorney and put the ball in their court.  You will probably need to be persistent&
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Re: So,how do you pick an attorney?
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2007, 10:29:23 AM »
I think if you describe your situation better we might be able to help more. What exactly is the issue? You may be able to solve all you problems by having a surveyor coming out. As least then your boarders will be very clear even for your idiot neighbor.
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Re: So,how do you pick an attorney?
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2007, 10:39:09 AM »
The only time that you should need a personal, criminal attorney is if you are charged with (or at risk of being charged with) doing something illegal.  Private parties cannot charge someone else with a criminal offense. 

If someone is trespassing on your property, you need to contact the police/district attorney/city attorney and put the ball in their court.  You will probably need to be persistent&


Ditto.  If you have a criminal complaint, you call the local DA.
Of course, I've always considered ALL attorneys to be criminal, but that's another question.
I can't tell what it is these people are doing or not doing that you want them to do or not do.  That would shine a little light here and maybe we could give better advice.
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Typhoon

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Re: So,how do you pick an attorney?
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2007, 10:49:42 AM »
Quote
Of course, I've always considered ALL attorneys to be criminal, but that's another question.

Ha!  Point taken.  laugh  I should have said "criminal defense attorney." 

Not all attorneys are criminal.  Just most.   angel
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onions!

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Re: So,how do you pick an attorney?
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2007, 10:56:50 AM »
Quote
Of course, I've always considered ALL attorneys to be criminal, but that's another question.

Well,that's part of my problem.I feel that way too.Knowing that there are a few on this board though I didn't want to be the first to say that.Thank you.


Bogie

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Re: So,how do you pick an attorney?
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2007, 10:57:30 AM »
What, specifically, are they doing? Parking lawn furniture in the wrong spot? A Trans-Camaro? What?
 
Get three signs made. Two that say "property line." Plant those, and string surveyor tape between them.
 
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Re: So,how do you pick an attorney?
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2007, 11:10:10 AM »
Okay, I have experience in this, although I am not an attorney.

I assume you have title work (assumption based on onion's first post).

Take (or fax) title work to a licensed (or professional) land surveyor.  Choose one who has practiced in your area for several (more than 10) years.

Tell the surveyor to stake the property line and easement boundaries in question (while he's at it, it may be time to stake the whole damn place).  You want a BOUNDARY survey.  Mortgage inspections don't count.

This may cost several hundred dollars, but If it goes to court, you'll need to do this anyway, and having an attorney arrange it will cost $.

If you call the cops, what will they be enforcing?  PROPERTY BOUNDARIES! 
The courts won't hold pacing the dimensions off a mortgage inspection or assessors record.  Neither will the cops if their smart (or lazy).
Get a staked survey.

If said neighbor pulls the stakes, he's guilty of a crime.  Call the cops.

If you don't have a title policy (you do if you financed your purchase) get one from one of the many title insurance providers  listed in the phone book.  Another 100-150 bucks.
The surveyor will need it, and they know how to obtain it, but in our area, they will charge you extra.

Owning land ain't cheap or easy.  Don't go shooting anyone until after you talk to your surveyor.   


EDIT TO ADD_

ONIONS -  you're in west Michigan!?!?!

Let me know where you are (PM or email) and I'll get you hooked up.  (or give some names).
I've worked that area for 15 years, (Live in Ottawa county) and have personal experience with many surveyors and real estate attorneys!!

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Tallpine

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Re: So,how do you pick an attorney?
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2007, 11:15:26 AM »
Quote
I have considered using my plow to push their crap into their pool

In that case, you probably will need a criminal defense attorney  rolleyes
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Re: So,how do you pick an attorney?
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2007, 11:59:12 AM »
*sigh*

Here's the situation:
Like every other house on my city block my lot is 40 feet wide by 80 feet deep.My house is centered on the lot.Five feet of yard then my fence then the neighbors driveway to my west.That side isn't the problem.On the East side it's a similar setup.Five feet of yard then the driveway(+/- 11 feet wide-it tapers about one inch/twenty feet from the road) then the neighbors house.About 8 inches of the driveway is on my property @ the sidewalk end & 4ish inches @ the top end.My house was built with two vehicle easily accessible parking areas behind my house & theirs w/one easy(straight thru from the driveway)& another that takes a bit of work to get around the corner of their house.

It's a bit odd but my house was built in 1934 by a fella & his wife (the Caulkins)to be there last home.They owned both lots.A few years later the (now neighbors) house was built for the Mother in law.Built back when one car/household was more the norm.My Grandparents moved into my home in 1961 & eventually bought the place in 1978 from the original owners as the Widow Caulkins was on her way to a nursing home.The property next door had been sold in 1973(mother in law died)to a family that lived there 'til 2005.The easement was paid for in 1978-when the grandparents bought the place.I know of only two driveway access spats in over thirty years.Both solved quickly & w/minimal fuss.

My easement is written as"Lot 25 of" blah,blah,blah"Together w/an easment for ingress & egress over the West 10 feet of (the neighbors lot) granted by right of way easement as recorded 11/2/1978...registrar of deeds...

The problem is very simple.The neighbors park in my easement.They block me either in or out of my parking area.In fact,since May 7th,I've been parking on the street in front of my house.The final straw was on the morning of May 7th @ 6:30 when I went to leave for work,I found my car blocked in.They didn't answer repeated knocking & pounding on their door(though I saw a shadow looking out their window)I finally chose to drive thru the shrubbery bordering my house & was able to squeeze past there car.& get to work almost a half hour late.The need to be on time is what made me decide to park in the street.

Backing up just a little.In early April I noticed that the house next door was sold & that it looked like the new owners were a 30ish couple w/a little girl.O.K.,swell.Whatever.Almost immedately they started parking in my easement.It was irritating but my thought was that they were a young couple,possibly w/their first house,& that they were probably coming over here right after work to work on the new place for a few hours before going home.The place needed work & they seemed to have several friends over to help them.My thought was that,in a few weeks,all the extras would be gone & things would return to "normal".I would cut them some slack & not be a jerk.

Having not a clue where to turn I contacted the City for advice in late April.They told me to contact my Title Insurance.After the events of May 7th,I did.It took two weeks to get them to even admit that I'd even contacted them(By snail mail,that.I'd originally contacted them via email.They never returned a single phone call nor was I ever able to speak to a human.Nice.I didn't even get to "press 2 for English"Smiley)
It wasn't until July that I was informed that someone local was looking into it for me.That worthy actually called(!) me & informed me that they wanted to survey the property & would I both consent & fax them a copy of the last survey.Sure says I,no problem.That attorney also sent the neighbors a letter asking them for permission to come on the property to survey the place.He(my attorney)called me later & suggested that I just "sue them".I belive that he referred to them as "not smart".This was in late August.He also forwarded me(verbally)that it was my title insurances position that the matter was of criminal trespass & not civil.That I should seek my own attorney locally to deal with it.

Now the money part.I'd wanted to have my house on the market last spring.Since my title insurance was handling it I chose to remodel & upgrade most of the interior.Nothing major but time consuming & a constant drain on the $$$.As I didn't want to move w/any debt over my head I spent the fall finishing paying off credit cards & such.

So it's 8 months later,I'm all but debt free I only have a couple of projects to finish.Christmas is over so I can start saving again,I can't reliably access my parking areas,& I really want to sell the place this Spring.

I have a hundred odd pics of them blocking the driveway but haven;t known what to really do with them.

As it's been going on so long I thought that I'd park in my parking area whenever I can Friday or Saturday & take several pics of them over the four day weekend as they block me in.& take those-with all the others-to a lawyer,next week.

I hope that that covers it.

onions!

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Re: So,how do you pick an attorney?
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2007, 12:04:52 PM »
Quote
I have considered using my plow to push their crap into their pool

In that case, you probably will need a criminal defense attorney  rolleyes

Well duh.I only said that I'd considered it.It was a fleeting thought.The neighbors have given me plenty of oppurtunities to lose my kool.I've resisted them all.Didn't I have a "stupid grin" smiley there when I posted that?

 grin
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Chris

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Re: So,how do you pick an attorney?
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2007, 12:42:32 PM »
First off, I am a lawyer in real life, I don't just play one on TV.  Wink

Forget the phone book.  Criminal defense attorneys, divorce attorneys, and personal injury lawyers worry about advertising in this way.  Anyone who advertises in the phone book specializes in one of these areas, or is a general practitioner.  In your situation, you want a property law specialist.

Here are your options.  First, and likely most expensive, you can look for a firm that handles primarily civil matters.  They all seem to keep certain specialists on staff, including a property attorney.

Second, you can try asking at the courthouse, or the title office/recorders office for advice.

Ask people at church, the gun club, etc. if they know of a quality civil attorney, not a probate attorney or personal injury attorney.

Check on the net.  www.findlaw.com and www.martindale.com are good options.

Finally, meet a couple of attorneys.  Consider their personality, their willingness to discuss the case with you, etc.  walk away from any attorney that guarantees you'll win.  He's lying.  There are no guarantees.  Use your gut instincts about trusting the person.

Good luck...

Mr_Toad

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Re: So,how do you pick an attorney?
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2007, 12:46:54 PM »
Hi,

I don't know how much this will help, but check out www.nolo.com.    Also, they have a lawyer directory at http://lawyers.nolo.com/.

Nolo.com publishes a whole series of legal books, written by attorneys, that are written for a lay person to read and understand.  (In my experience, these books have been consistently excellent, for example when I used several of their books to create a Limited Liability Company some years back, when I researched Tenant's rights for a friend who was at risk of being evicted, and also when I researched potentially preparing a lawsuit of my own against an employer.)  In addition, being an informed client will save YOU money, since you can research in advance what an attorney is likely to need from you.

Listed below is Nolo's book on "Neighbor Law"..so it should include info on Illegal Trespass.   (If you think it's worth it to make a purchase, these Nolo books get updated every year or two, so be sure you get the most recent edition.)  There are also books about preparing a lawsuit and choosing an attorney and great reference info to help you understand what is going on as the legal system drags along.

Book Title:  "Neighbor Law: Fences, Trees, Boundaries & Noise"
by Attorney Cora Jordan
Order online or call 1-800-728-3555
List Price: $26.99
Our Price: $22.94
You Save: $4.05
Pub. Date: Feb 2006
Edition: 5th

Pages: 368 pp
ISBN: 9781413300604


Question Example from Nolo's Q & A section:  What can I do if a neighbor starts using my property?

"If a neighbor starts to build on what you think is your property, do something immediately. If the encroachment is minor -- for instance, a small fence in the wrong place -- you may think you shouldn't worry. But you're wrong. When you try to sell your house, a title company might refuse to issue insurance because the neighbor is on your land.

Also, if you don't act promptly, you could lose part of your property. When one person uses another's land for a long enough time, he can gain a legal right to continue to do so and, in some circumstances, gain ownership of the property.

Talk to your neighbor right away. Most likely, a mistake has been made because of a conflicting description in the neighbor's deed or just a mistaken assumption about the boundary line. If your neighbor is hostile and insists on proceeding, state that you will sue if necessary. Then send a firm letter -- or have a lawyer send one on his or her letterhead. If the building doesn't stop, waste no time in having a lawyer get a judge's order to temporarily stop the neighbor until you can bring a civil lawsuit for trespass before the judge."

Good Luck!

Toad


Mr_Toad

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Re: So,how do you pick an attorney?
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2007, 01:02:15 PM »
FYI...just another item from the Nolo.Com site...it deals with fences, but it's still Real Property rights, and contains an interesting note about obtaining a "Variance" from the City that would provide you one-time permission to build a fence on your property to prevent folks from using your property. 

Hmmm...

=================================

"Question:  How high can I build a fence on my property?

In residential areas, local rules commonly restrict artificial (constructed) backyard fences to a height of six feet. In front yards, the limit is often four feet.    Height restrictions may also apply to natural fences -- fences of bushes or trees -- if they meet the ordinance's general definition of fences. Trees that are planted in a row and grow together to form a barrier are usually considered a fence. When natural fences are specifically mentioned in the laws, the height restrictions commonly range from five to eight feet.

If, however, you have a good reason (for example, you need to screen your house from a noisy or unsightly neighboring use, such as a gas station), you can ask the city for a one-time exception to the fence law, called a variance. Talk to the neighbors before you make your request, to explain your problem and get them on your side."

=================================

Nolo.Com Glossary - "variance"

An exception to a zoning ordinance, usually granted by a local government. For example, if you own an oddly shaped lot that could not accommodate a home in accordance with your city's setback requirement, you could apply at the appropriate office for a variance allowing you to build closer to a boundary line.

See Topic: Business & Human Resources  Real Estate  Consumer Rights 


=================================


Tallpine

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Re: So,how do you pick an attorney?
« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2007, 02:29:18 PM »
Okay, well we had something sorta like this when I was a kid.

Our driveway and some fences were several feet inside the property line.  The neighbor proceeded to build their fences right up to the driveway and existing fence.  My family sued (civil attorney), and the neighbors had to move their fences, but no monetary compensation to us.  As I remember, it was settled out of court.

I doubt the cops will help you enforce an easement in this situation Sad

The trespassing that I have had to deal with was somebody riding an ATV all over our place and harrassing our horses.  I solved that with some very stern words (over the phone) with the neighbor and his "boyfriend".  Sometimes, being a jack ass really works Wink
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SteveS

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Re: So,how do you pick an attorney?
« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2007, 05:24:17 PM »
First off, I am a lawyer in real life, I don't just play one on TV.  Wink

Forget the phone book.  Criminal defense attorneys, divorce attorneys, and personal injury lawyers worry about advertising in this way.  Anyone who advertises in the phone book specializes in one of these areas, or is a general practitioner.  In your situation, you want a property law specialist.

Here are your options.  First, and likely most expensive, you can look for a firm that handles primarily civil matters.  They all seem to keep certain specialists on staff, including a property attorney.

Second, you can try asking at the courthouse, or the title office/recorders office for advice.

Ask people at church, the gun club, etc. if they know of a quality civil attorney, not a probate attorney or personal injury attorney.

Check on the net.  www.findlaw.com and www.martindale.com are good options.

Finally, meet a couple of attorneys.  Consider their personality, their willingness to discuss the case with you, etc.  walk away from any attorney that guarantees you'll win.  He's lying.  There are no guarantees.  Use your gut instincts about trusting the person.

Good luck...


I am an attorney, too, and I agree with this advice.  If any of your friends have dealt with attorneys, then they could be a good place to start.  If they don't do that kind of work, they may know someone that does.
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Re: So,how do you pick an attorney?
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2007, 07:10:12 PM »
If they blocked you in on your own property couldn't you have them towed? I'm not 100% sure of how that works but I've seen MANY cars towed for being parked on private property. Once some people down the road from me had a party and some of their friends blocked the neighbor's driveway and one lane of the 2 lane road. All of those cars ended up in the impound lot. I'd try having them towed first if possible since it's free for you. Paying $200+ to get their car back would sure send a message if you can easily prove to the police it's private property.

Tuco

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Re: So,how do you pick an attorney?
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2007, 08:26:05 PM »
Sounds like you've got your survey / title work bases covered.
 
When you take donuts to the kind ladies at the courthouse, pick up a copy of the easement "....as recorded in Liber ### , Page ###, register of deeds, Your County
A copy may be attached to your title work (in Schedule B)

Your attorney will need it, along with the title work, copies of the survey, and a few photos.

By the way, not to be an a$$, but have you talked to the neighbors?

In my town (30 miles west of you) the #1 complaint to the police is shared driveway disputes.  I'm sure your local police have handled these before.

Anyhow, PM sent, good luck.  Happy New Year.
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Ned Hamford

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Re: So,how do you pick an attorney?
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2007, 01:59:13 AM »
Just a thought, a restraining order may help things along. [the issueing rules/policies vary greatly]
Not to hard to envision whats been going on as low level harrassment.
If they continue it then, contempt of court.

[Not a lawyer yet]
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