Nation-wide lockdown coming?

[K Frame]

That's what this guy is recommending...

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/11/biden-covid-advisor-says-us-lockdown-of-4-to-6-weeks-could-control-pandemic-and-revive-economy.html

Not sure where they think they could borrow enough money to make up for everyone's lost wages for upwards 6 weeks...

I guess maybe they'll get Bernie to tax a billionaire at a "fair share."

[makattak]

Because when the government's draconian actions fail, the ONLY answer is MORE GOVERNMENT!

[MechAg94]

That's what this guy is recommending...

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/11/biden-covid-advisor-says-us-lockdown-of-4-to-6-weeks-could-control-pandemic-and-revive-economy.html

Not sure where they think they could borrow enough money to make up for everyone's lost wages for upwards 6 weeks...

I guess maybe they'll get Bernie to tax a billionaire at a "fair share."

I am sure the Chinese will be happy to give them plenty of money.  (or promise to)

[Ben]

I'm sure Biden will plan trillions in free stuff if he does it. I don't want to see working people suffer, but I'd kinda like the Senate (if they have the votes) to do the same thing Pelosi did for the last several months and say no. Of course unlike Pelosi vs Trump, Senate vs Biden will have the Senate getting the blame for lack of relief.

The Senate should come up with a non-pork bailout, except add a $25,000 check for every taxpayer instead of $2000, then maybe see where frustration goes on not passing free stuff. It would likely be less expensive than the bills the left has wanted passed so far, what with taking out hundreds of billions going to actors, abortion, etc.

[RoadKingLarry]

Two weeks to flatten the curve.....

[Lennyjoe]

I think it will kill off the remaining small businesses that are barely holding on now.

[RoadKingLarry]

I think it will kill off the remaining small businesses that are barely holding on now.

That's a feature, not a bug.

[Brad Johnson]

I don't see it happening. Too much red out here in flyover country that is already sick and tired of being mandated into socialism. Several governors have also given a pre-emptive middle finger to the idea.

Brad

[Ben]

I don't see it happening. Too much red out here in flyover country that is already sick and tired of being mandated into socialism. Several governors have also given a pre-emptive middle finger to the idea.

Brad

Certainly at least half of Idaho will not follow it. I could still see the governor giving in to a mandate if federal funds were threatened. Doesn't mean he would actually enforce it, but he might give it lip service for $$$. There enough nags in Boise, and with the Boise mayor big on mask force, we could still give the optics of following the mandate while mostly not following it.

[MechAg94]

Rural Texas wasn't following the original mask order.  Or at least only where chain stores required it.

A local gun store I like has a sign on the door saying "Please Remove Your Mask". 

[Nick1911]

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but we probably need to do something.

People have become complacent... life goes on.  It's hard to maintain these precautions month after month.  It's hard to evaluate the risk when it's not in your direct circle.  The problem with complacency is, the virus does not care.  People become lax, and the virus spreads rapidly.

There's a sad irony in a gun shop asking patrons to remove their mask.  Folks carry a sidearm in their daily activities as protection from the statistically unlikely event of life-or-death interpersonal violence.  But due to politics, a gun shop is not only ignoring - but actively opposing - a simple precaution to mitigate the risk of catching and spreading a disease during a pandemic. 

[Ben]

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but we probably need to do something.

IMO, there's a difference between lowest common denominator "DO SOMETHING!" and doing things that make sense. Elderly/susceptible should certainly wear masks, wash hands, or avoid going out all together as much as they can. Younger people in their families who interact with them should also take precautions.

I don't see the point of making EVERYONE wear masks. Especially, as I constantly complain about, with 80% wearing them wrong. Also, my complaints about restaurants. Wear your mask for the 20' from the door to your table or you're refused service. Feel free to sit at your table for an hour maskless though, along with a bunch of other people in the enclosed room. Also, I guarantee servers aren't sterilizing their hands after every customer interaction.

I'd be more inclined to support doing something if doing something made more sense.

[TommyGunn]

That's what this guy is recommending...

.....biden-covid-advisor-says-us-lockdown-of-4-to-6-weeks-could-control-pandemic-and-revive-economy. ......

Not sure where they think they could borrow enough money to make up for everyone's lost wages for upwards 6 weeks...

I guess maybe they'll get Bernie to tax a billionaire at a "fair share."

Revive economy?!?!?!     Good God almighty, a shutdown like that will KILL THE ECONOMY OFF COMPLETLY and turn America into Venezuela North.

We get the government we deserve....

[WLJ]

Revive economy?!?!?!    Good God almighty, a shutdown like that will KILL THE ECONOMY OFF COMPLETLY and turn America into Venezuela North.

We get the government we deserve....

That is a "Revived" economy as far modern dems are concerned.

BTW: Probably a safe bet much of the dem support base would be the first to revolt under such a shutdown since I suspect they're the ones least likely to be prepared to go without fastfood places for more than a day or two.

[RocketMan]

It wouldn't surprise me a bit to see the Democrats try a national lockdown.  It gives them an opportunity to test the leftist authoritarian waters, so to speak.  If they get away with a lockdown, other draconian measures to [insert pet causes here] will follow.

[Nick1911]

IMO, there's a difference between lowest common denominator "DO SOMETHING!" and doing things that make sense. Elderly/susceptible should certainly wear masks, wash hands, or avoid going out all together as much as they can. Younger people in their families who interact with them should also take precautions.

That's fair, a call to do something should probably be followed with a specific proposal.  What exactly that is, I don't know.  I don't have one.  However, what we're doing right now isn't working, so I think it's safe to say that something needs to change.  In an ideal world, information and recommendations would be acted upon voluntarily by folks, and we wouldn't have to have authoritarian decrees compelling behavior.

I don't see the point of making EVERYONE wear masks.

I really personally dislike wearing a face mask.  It's become more normal, but I'll be glad when we're past that.

But, I have to disagree.  Just because you or I are perhaps not in a risk category, doesn't mean that we should be incautious about catching or spreading covid.  Because if we do - soon there will be so much genetic material out there it will be more and more difficult for at-risk groups to avoid it.

Especially, as I constantly complain about, with 80% wearing them wrong. Also, my complaints about restaurants. Wear your mask for the 20' from the door to your table or you're refused service. Feel free to sit at your table for an hour maskless though, along with a bunch of other people in the enclosed room. Also, I guarantee servers aren't sterilizing their hands after every customer interaction.

I'd be more inclined to support doing something if doing something made more sense.

Agreed, if folks aren't going to wear a mask correctly, it's like just theater - no appreciable impact.  Also agree that the rules for restaurants make no sense.  I will eat take away, but I am avoiding sit down dining because I judge the risk to be too high.

[cordex]

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but we probably need to do something.

We've done something.  
We've been doing something.  As you note it really hasn't worked.  Even places in the US with strict enforcement for months on end (it has been a long two weeks to flatten the curve, hasn't it?) have been seeing the same kind of increases.

For that matter, interventions tried around the world have largely failed to prevent spread ... with the possible exception of the most oppressive and authoritarian regimes.

It seems likely that wearing masks reduces your risk of catching/passing the virus a little bit, but over time the likelihood that it will fail becomes almost certain.  If we're saying "just wear a mask until the vaccine" ... well, we're practically there.  

If you're suggesting we should try something more severe, then I'm curious what your proposed strategy is.  Arresting people who dare to even post negative things about lockdowns like in Australia?  Something more along the China "weld them in their apartments" model?  A genuine, full and complete lockdown?

Given the risk profile we have actually seen (i.e. pretty deadly to elderly and at risk, pretty not-deadly to young and healthy), I don't think there is anything outside a medical breakthrough that can be reasonably enacted while maintaining a semblance of "America" that will do anything to halt the virus.  The best thing I can think of would be to provide incentive for at-risk people to stay home and protected and let everyone else make their own decisions.

[Ben]

In an ideal world, information and recommendations would be acted upon voluntarily by folks, and we wouldn't have to have authoritarian decrees compelling behavior.

I will give you this: If we came up with the perfect plan (whatever that would be), we'd still have people that wouldn't follow it  just because. So even a great plan will be kiboshed by some people.

Also, I actually like, as you allude to, that mask wearing is no longer something that gets you called a weirdo, because there are plenty of non-covid situations where a properly worn mask are beneficial, like my pet peeve sick coworker scenario.

[RoadKingLarry]

my pet peeve sick coworker scenario.

I suspect most large employers follow a similar model that several of mine have followed.
Talk a good game about "stay home if you are sick" but if you dare to take a sick day you get penalized, maybe not formally but it's still there.
A previous employer had the "stay home if you are sick" official policy. I had a bad cold/flu one year and took two days. When annual reviews came around I was informed that those sick days negatively impacted my annual raise. The next time I was sick I came to work and made a point of spending as much time as possible around my direct supervisor. About a week later he got sick was hell and actually spent 2 days in the hospital. I didn't feel a bit bad about it.

[Andiron]

More restrictions are pointless.  We did a mixed lockdown/mask mandate and cratered the economy, and the resulting numbers were comparable to countries that didn't force anything.

The plan has been to bootstrap UBI and more socialism the whole time.

[Boomhauer]

More restrictions are pointless.  We did a mixed lockdown/mask mandate and cratered the economy, and the resulting numbers were comparable to countries that didn't force anything.

The plan has been to bootstrap UBI and more socialism the whole time.

This. I can only imagine the Democrat wet dream spending bill to support the economy during a “lockdown”. It’ll be “we have to pass it to find out what’s in it!” writ large.

[Nick1911]

We've done something.  
We've been doing something.  As you note it really hasn't worked.  Even places in the US with strict enforcement for months on end (it has been a long two weeks to flatten the curve, hasn't it?) have been seeing the same kind of increases.

For that matter, interventions tried around the world have largely failed to prevent spread ... with the possible exception of the most oppressive and authoritarian regimes.

Well, maybe.  We don't know what "doing nothing" would have looked like in the US.

It seems likely that wearing masks reduces your risk of catching/passing the virus a little bit, but over time the likelihood that it will fail becomes almost certain.  If we're saying "just wear a mask until the vaccine" ... well, we're practically there.  

Which would be great.  Vaccine, put a bullet in this thing, move on.  Oh, and fight the anti-vaxxers for decades.

If you're suggesting we should try something more severe, then I'm curious what your proposed strategy is.  

I don't have a proposed strategy.  I'm not nearly well enough read into current research about how and where covid transmissions are happening and what can be done to prevent that.  That's probably a starting point for suggesting mitigation, followed by looking at how much economic damage they would incur.

Arresting people who dare to even post negative things about lockdowns like in Australia?  Something more along the China "weld them in their apartments" model?  A genuine, full and complete lockdown?

The virus doesn't care what people post on the internet, so no, I don't think that would be effective.    Communist China has (maybe?) done a good job of containing the virus with their "what human rights?" policies.  I don't think anyone wants these sort of draconian measures in the US.

Given the risk profile we have actually seen (i.e. pretty deadly to elderly and at risk, pretty not-deadly to young and healthy), I don't think there is anything outside a medical breakthrough that can be reasonably enacted while maintaining a semblance of "America" that will do anything to halt the virus.  The best thing I can think of would be to provide incentive for at-risk people to stay home and protected and let everyone else make their own decisions.

And maybe that's the best course - keep on doing what we're doing, provide support for people that are at-risk, and just makes sure everyone else has the information they need for an informed choice.  Maybe that's the cost of freedom.

[RoadKingLarry]

I don't think anyone wants these sort of draconian measures in the US.

I can think of quite a few of "the usual suspects" that would be positively giddy about having the power to implement those kind of measures in the USA.

[lee n. field]

I don't see it happening. Too much red out here in flyover country that is already sick and tired of being mandated into socialism. Several governors have also given a pre-emptive middle finger to the idea.

Brad

Part of what we have right now, is a failure of trust.

I don't trust (in my case) the fat man in Springfield and his minions, to tell me the truth, and to have my interests at heart.  They made everything political, so excuse me if I think it prudent to judge their actions through that lens.

And I don't trust them to be competent to deal with it.  Science works, but only if you do it right.  Lysenko-ism isn't going anywhere in farm country, and I never took my kids to see a phrenology specialist when they were young.  Dunning-Krueger's not just for the little people.

I don't trust the main stream news to tell me the truth, not when they mostly lie about folks like me.

(Contemplating expanding this into a good rant for the Book of Faces.)

[MechAg94]

Well, maybe.  We don't know what "doing nothing" would have looked like in the US.

Which would be great.  Vaccine, put a bullet in this thing, move on.  Oh, and fight the anti-vaxxers for decades.

I don't have a proposed strategy.  I'm not nearly well enough read into current research about how and where covid transmissions are happening and what can be done to prevent that.  That's probably a starting point for suggesting mitigation, followed by looking at how much economic damage they would incur.

The virus doesn't care what people post on the internet, so no, I don't think that would be effective.    Communist China has (maybe?) done a good job of containing the virus with their "what human rights?" policies.  I don't think anyone wants these sort of draconian measures in the US.

And maybe that's the best course - keep on doing what we're doing, provide support for people that are at-risk, and just makes sure everyone else has the information they need for an informed choice.  Maybe that's the cost of freedom.

1.  "Do Something" is just an invitation for a power grab.  The quality of people in our govt (in general) don't know what "something" should be any more than you do.  Don't assume they are all smarter or better informed.  More than likely they have conflicting motives or friends of theirs do. 

2.  We don't know what is happening in China and likely never will.  The only thing we know for certain is anything they say will be a lie.  

3.  I think we continue with hygiene recommendations and let people live their lives and earn an income.  Offer the vaccine when available.  People will take it.  Results will be known.  I figure my employer will require it.  Mainly, stop shutting stuff down.  Most of the onerous restrictions are not hard to see as inconsistent, hypocritical BS.  It makes no sense to let a person sit down at a restaurant and have a beer without a mask on while not letting a person do the same at a bar.  

I saw a youtube show naming at least a few influential people who were pushing for shut downs and then running consulting firms to help companies deal with the shut downs.  Bloomberg was buying up real estate in New York earlier this year from people selling.  IMO, very few of these govt people have innocent motives.