Author Topic: FDR, Pearl Harbor and the U.N.  (Read 2586 times)

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
FDR, Pearl Harbor and the U.N.
« on: December 07, 2011, 11:39:28 AM »
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/denson8.html

Essentially a book review of an author that states FDR and other presidents deceitfully manipulated the US into various wars, but who thinks that it was just fine that they did so.

Quote
I agree that Victor has accurately described the deceitful conduct of the presidents he cites ... but I strongly disagree with his conclusion that the American people have knowingly condoned the deceitful activity of the presidents Victor mentions because our history books do not contain this information, it is not taught in the schools and universities and it is not recited by the news media. You have to have independent researchers like Victor to find and disclose most of this information.

Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: FDR, Pearl Harbor and the U.N.
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2011, 05:12:22 PM »
It's true that FDR and his comrades were advocating for war long before Pearl Harbor. I believe "The Warhawks" by Mark Lincoln Chadwin is a good source on this topic.

But "Pearl Harbor was provoked/foreseen by FDR" is a canard, it's been disproven many times over.  It's WW2's version of 9/11 truthism, basically.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: FDR, Pearl Harbor and the U.N.
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2011, 06:24:49 PM »
It's true that FDR and his comrades were advocating for war long before Pearl Harbor. I believe "The Warhawks" by Mark Lincoln Chadwin is a good source on this topic.

But "Pearl Harbor was provoked/foreseen by FDR" is a canard, it's been disproven many times over.  It's WW2's version of 9/11 truthism, basically.

So how come an author would write a book praising FDR for provoking a war ???
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

TommyGunn

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,956
  • Stuck in full auto since birth.
Re: FDR, Pearl Harbor and the U.N.
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2011, 07:52:42 PM »
It's true that FDR and his comrades were advocating for war long before Pearl Harbor. I believe "The Warhawks" by Mark Lincoln Chadwin is a good source on this topic.

But "Pearl Harbor was provoked/foreseen by FDR" is a canard, it's been disproven many times over.  It's WW2's version of 9/11 truthism, basically.

FDR had been Secretary of the Navy and respected the Navy -- to the degree the U.S. Army had to remind him it, too, existed.
A lot of conspiracy theories have erupted trying to prove FDR/the U.S. govt. knew the Japanese were going to bomb Pearl Harbor.  There's a lot of reason to believe that there were intelligence screw-ups, and that the typical dot gov bureaucrats had their heads up their posteriors, but there is no smoking gun showing there was any vile plotting.  They thought the Philipines would be hit, or some other more western asset and the Japanese would not hit Pearl.  They did fear saboteurs and thus on the fatal  morning our fighter planes were lined up in nice neat rows at Hickam Field.  Good for spotting spies planting bombs, but it sorta backfires when the problem is enemy planes strafing them and bombing them.
BTW, I never really liked FDR.  If I could finagle up a good story against the socialist thug on this point I'd love to.  But, unfortunatly the facts just ain't there.
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

Chester32141

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 642
Re: FDR, Pearl Harbor and the U.N.
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2011, 08:12:56 PM »
"The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter...... "

Photos
CBs Hawg Sauce


RocketMan

  • Mad Rocket Scientist
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,625
  • Semper Fidelis
Re: FDR, Pearl Harbor and the U.N.
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2011, 09:32:23 PM »
"At Dawn We Slept: The Untold Story of Pearl Harbor " by Naval historian Gordon W. Prange is a good read.  He very effectively explains why we were caught with our trousers around our ankles on Dec. 7, 1941.  Very heavy on researched details, it can be a tedious read for some, but it is very interesting for those seriously interested in the Pearl Harbor attack.  The author does an excellent job of thoroughly debunking the conspiracy theorists.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

Boomhauer

  • Former Moderator, fired for embezzlement and abuse of power
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,317
Re: FDR, Pearl Harbor and the U.N.
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2011, 01:04:34 AM »
A teacher I had in HS did extensive research on Pearl Harbor as part of her history doctorate.

Incompetence? Yes. FDR a commie? Yes. Conspiracy? No.
Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

TommyGunn

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,956
  • Stuck in full auto since birth.
Re: FDR, Pearl Harbor and the U.N.
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2011, 12:46:56 PM »
FDR had been Secretary of the Navy* and respected the Navy -- to the degree the U.S. Army had to remind him it, too, existed.
....................

*  Ooooops.  Assistant Secretary of the Navy is closer to the truth ...... :facepalm:
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,770
Re: FDR, Pearl Harbor and the U.N.
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2011, 09:34:52 PM »
It seems to me that if anything, FDR may have been pushing us toward war on the Atlantic side rather than the Pacific maintaining trade and shipping with Britain and such. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

TommyGunn

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 7,956
  • Stuck in full auto since birth.
Re: FDR, Pearl Harbor and the U.N.
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2011, 12:21:54 AM »
Yeah, FDR had actually planned for an American involvement in WW2 and the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor threw a big monkey wrench into it. 
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero