Hybrid (heat pump water heaters?

[brimic]

My current water heater is about to go tango uniform, is leaking from the tank...
I really hate the thought of buying another electric- mucho expensivo to run, but I don't have Natural gas run to my house (I'm on propane).
While looking online last night, I discovered heat pump water heaters- apparently they are extremely efficient if you only use hot water  a few times per day.
They do cost about 3x what a standard electric water heater costs up front.

Any experiences good or bad?


http://www.build.com/rheem-hb50rh/s1006675?uid=2491004&gclid=CLDiod7-wcUCFUISHwodVw0AVw&source=gg-gba-pla_2491004____49416787039&ef_id=U-tdewAAAfwogBm0:20150514194159:s

[bedlamite]

Check the recovery time too, a heat pump will take longer to bring the water up to temp, so you might need a larger model.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Interesting
 If you could share any good info.....
I currently am waiting to install a tankless


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[Firethorn]

Any experiences good or bad?

First, if it makes a difference many models are made in the USA. 
Second, How much AC do you use?  This will reduce that, though you'll use a touch more propane in the winter.  Remember - it's sucking the heat out of whatever room it's mounted in to heat the water.

I haven't used one, though I did some research on them.

[dogmush]

I had a tankless in my last house and it was great.  I had to run two 40A 220 circuts to it, and obviously when it was on it sucked juice like it was an addict jonesing for a fix, but when it was off it used nothing at all.  In total I used less electricity, didn't have any longer wait time for hot water, gained a bunch more space and didn't have a tank filling with sediment and crap.  When my current hot water heater goes out, I'm putting another Tankless in the new house.

I have a buddy with a Hybrid, and he also noticed less power use, but reported significantly longer wait times to get hot water.  Water temperature also varied depending on the temp of his garage. (Summer in FL good, Jan not so much) and it made a LOT of condensate.  There was enough condensate he ended up having to buy a pump and pump it outside. A less humid environment might mitigate that.  They also need a fair amount of open space to work well, so if your water heater is in a closet or shed, you won't net as much savings.

[Nick1911]

Another thing I've seen done, although it's rare - is install a desuperheater on the central A/C to recover waste heat for domestic hot water.

About the model you've linked to, note that it states Max BTU Input: 8,700

This is much lower then most conventional water heaters.  My gas water heater has 40,000 BTU input (at 70% efficient)  A 240V electric eating 20A is putting out 16,000 BTU.  8700 is not much -  this will cause lengthy recovery times.

[brimic]

First, if it makes a difference many models are made in the USA. 
Second, How much AC do you use?  This will reduce that, though you'll use a touch more propane in the winter.  Remember - it's sucking the heat out of whatever room it's mounted in to heat the water.

I haven't used one, though I did some research on them.

I haven't used A/C yet- just bought the house in November.
Water heater will go in the basement- extra bonus is that these things will supplement a dehumidifier.

[brimic]

I have a buddy with a Hybrid, and he also noticed less power use, but reported significantly longer wait times to get hot water.  Water temperature also varied depending on the temp of his garage. (Summer in FL good, Jan not so much) and it made a LOT of condensate.

I'm good to go for that- I have a seperate sump pit in the basement that came with the house for laundry water to be discharged onto the back lawn.

bout the model you've linked to, note that it states Max BTU Input: 8,700

This is much lower then most conventional water heaters.  My gas water heater has 40,000 BTU input (at 70% efficient)  A 240V electric eating 20A is putting out 16,000 BTU.  8700 is not much -  this will cause lengthy recovery times.

Yeah I noticed that.... I'm kind of on the fence about that one. I'm not home too often, its more of a place to store my stuff, however, I have the kids over for 1/2 of the time... My daughter will have to learn to not take 1/2 hour showers. 

[Firethorn]

About the model you've linked to, note that it states Max BTU Input: 8,700

This is much lower then most conventional water heaters.  My gas water heater has 40,000 BTU input (at 70% efficient)  A 240V electric eating 20A is putting out 16,000 BTU.  8700 is not much -  this will cause lengthy recovery times.

Remember that it's a heat pump.  It's taking in 8.7k BTU, but with an energy factor of 2.45 it'll be putting around 21k BTU into the water.  Not as powerful as your gas water heater, but still better than that appears.  Pay attention to these two figures:
First Hour Performance: 57 Gallons
Recovery at 90º Rise: 21 Gallons per Hour

[K Frame]

A year or more ago I investigated both the GE and the Rheem.

My conclusion is that the technology is maturing, but the reliability still just isn't quite there. I was seeing many reports of the heat pump going into a default mode, which turns on the standard electric heating coils. If you look at the GE reviews on Lowes.com, you'll see a LOT of glowing reviews (total of 800+) but quite a few note that at some point the unit failed and went into default mode. Most of those reviews seem to be prior to 2013/2014, but I'm still leery.

Most of them can be set to work in one of the 3 modes -- heat pump only, hybrid (combination of heat pump and coils), and coil only mode (operates just like a regular water heater).

You also need to remember that the heat pump unit adds significant height to the overall design, you at a minimum you'll probably need to do some repiping. If you have low ceilings, you might have bigger issues than that.

Another plus is that the prices are starting to drop significantly as the technology matures. The one I looked at a couple of years ago was, at that time, about $1,250; it's now listed on the Lowes site for $999.

The benefits are very attractive, but the potential drawbacks are still a little too great for my comfort level.

I've decided that when I replace the water heater, it's going to be with a Whirlpool SmartEnergy or similar. They use fuzzy logic to learn water usage patterns to cut down on standby loss, and can be set into vacation mode with the push of a button (instead of throwing the breaker)

[brimic]

I looked at the GE model very hard too, it seems their 1st generation unit had a very high failure rate (approaching 100%) due to a design issue, and most of the complaints were around how GE gave owners the run around. It appears their newer model has less complaints with catastrophic failures, so far, but I'm staying far away from them.  I've seen the glowing to garbage review cycle quite a few times with craptastic dehumidifiers that invariably fail at 1 to2 years out,

[Firethorn]

I looked at the GE model very hard too, it seems their 1st generation unit had a very high failure rate (approaching 100%) due to a design issue, and most of the complaints were around how GE gave owners the run around. It appears their newer model has less complaints with catastrophic failures, so far, but I'm staying far away from them.  I've seen the glowing to garbage review cycle quite a few times with craptastic dehumidifiers that invariably fail at 1 to2 years out,

If I remember right, their first generation was made in China, and was an overcomplicated mess - their designers had forgotten that what they put on the page actually needs to be built, and the Chinese don't care.

Well, seeing as how Chinese wages have been doubling every 2 years for the last 12 or so, they're no longer as cheap, so production was brought back here.  In doing so, they got the assembly workers here in the USA in on doing a redesign.

The result was a heat pump water heater with something like 50% fewer parts, significantly less piping, fewer failure points, and actually sane to put together.  Cheaper AND more reliable.