The Nature of Evil

[Laurent du Var]

Is evil really that subjective?

Yes, it must be, in order to have a healthy adult caracter your definitions 
of good and bad should be absolute and therefore only valid for yourself.
Then there is common sense.
Or is there ?

Oh and here is Wikipedia the true source of the uneducated and it suits me good enough :
In ethics, evil refers to behavior, which does harm, is dishonest, or fails to honor agreements. In some religions, notably Christianity, evil is an active force. In the Christian religion, good is, by definition, what God intends, and Satan works to spread evil (disobedience) in the world.

   

[CAnnoneer]

So, evil=injustice, 1-to-1?

[Werewolf]

Is evil really that subjective?

Depends on whether you are a moral relativist or absolutist.

Pre Cook Hawaiins thought nothing of tossing defective new borns and even older children right out into the Ocean thus keeping the gene pool relatively clean.

Incest was a normal practice among ancient egyptian royalty thus maintaining the purity of the royal line whom they believed to be descended from various gods.

Female circumcision is practiced quite regularly in various parts of the world.

Wahabism...

Evil or not? Discuss.

[Werewolf]

Double Tap - deleted...

[GreatBlueWhale]

The nature of evil must be that relative. Consider my example below. Suppose a purposed biological attack killed 90% of all the Jews in Israel. Though not a Jew, I would call that an evil act. I personally know Arabs that would rejoice at the righteousness of the act. As I said, millions would mourn. Millions would dance in the streets.

Suppose a bomb destroyed the holy shrine in Mecca. Certainly evil to every follower of Mohammed, its evil to me, too. A 34 point buck (a monster, by the way) was just taken in Kentucky. I am jealous, not appalled. However, I know people who would think that every bit as evil as the abuse and murder of a small child.

If that isnt relative, I dont know what is. Its difficult to step away from our worldview and consider the enormous differences in mankind worldwide. Now, I dont mean to imply that I am in favor of moral equivalence. Im happy to point my finger and say, Thou art a sinner! However, Ive seen too much and known too many people to think they will all think like I do.

Besides, if Im not right, or perhaps more importantly, someone else isn't wrong,how else could I get this great feeling of moral superiority?
(edits for spelling and grammar)

[Euclidean]

Evil is an act of unjustified harm against another.

[gaston_45]

Evil is an enculturated idea that you learn growing up in a certain society.  This means that it is relative to whichever culture you grew up in.

[Risasi]

In pure abstract form,

Active Evil / Commission:

Of corrupt nature, causing pain or trouble for yourself and those who surround you. Directed malice toward another.

Passive Evil / Omission:

To aim or be aimed, and to miss that mark. To fall short of the goal which has been set for you. To be measured and found lacking.

---

Of course, who gets to set the bar? If it is those who are fallible obviously they will unionize and lower the bar to their expectations, thus redefining "evil" as they see fit.

[grampster]

Total and absolute selfishness.  Sociopath.

[Brad Johnson]

Total and absolute selfishness.  Sociopath.

No, that's fistful.

Brad

[Antibubba]

I think it's the thing that came as a giant flaming planet, made a phone call to Gary Oldman, and then was repelled by Milla Jovovich screaming.

You work for Microsoft Tech Support, don't you?   

[Perd Hapley]

Total and absolute selfishness.  Sociopath.

No, that's fistful.

Brad

Ah, crap, I'm busted.   

[Tecumseh]

Evil?  

Its a selfish action that shows no regard for anyone else, usually for some sort of profit or gain for the initiator of the action.

+1

I would use the term Evil to describe the current war in Iraq using this definition.

[tokugawa]

Evil destroys for the sake of destruction. Evil only  creates for the sake of destruction. Evils end goal is destruction.  A tool of evil is obedience.
  I recall quite clearly the descriptions of German Military Police vomiting after they blew the brains out of little kids and grandmothers, at point blank range. BUT THEY DID IT!  Line them up, walk up behind, chamber a 8x57, hold the muzzle six inches from the pretty little six year old girls head, and shatter her skull, brains exploding all over your tunic- and again and again and pretty soon, after you puke and puke and drink your self senseless at night it gets easier and easier till one day it just turns into a chore. Are you an SS tough, trained from infancy? No , just a factory worker or postman or
stevedore or mechanic, just a member of the reserve police.  You just do what you are told. 

[The Swamp Fox]

Rape a woman... then send her to prison for being raped. When she gets out she will be hunted by her brothers and father who will then kill her if they can and be thus regain their honor. This may sound evil to you. This is the way of Islam. Is Islam evil?

Assist in the enslavement of a race of people. Purchase them, sell them, dispose of them as you wish. Sounds evil. Were the founders of the US evil?

Drop bombs on cities where hundreds of thousands of men, women and children live work and play. Kill hundreds of thousands of people. Was Harry Truman evil?

Is evil really that subjective?

It looks that way does it not?

[Werewolf]

Rape a woman... then send her to prison for being raped. When she gets out she will be hunted by her brothers and father who will then kill her if they can and be thus regain their honor. This may sound evil to you. This is the way of Islam. Is Islam evil?

If that truly is the way of Islam then without a doubt it is evil - if you're a moral absolutist. if you're a moral relativist then it's perfectly OK to do such a thing.

Assist in the enslavement of a race of people. Purchase them, sell them, dispose of them as you wish. Sounds evil. Were the founders of the US evil?

Of course they were - they were rich white guys right? So that behavior made them without a doubt evil - if you're a moral absolutist. if you're a moral relativist then it was perfectly OK to do such a thing.

Drop bombs on cities where hundreds of thousands of men, women and children live work and play. Kill hundreds of thousands of people. Was Harry Truman evil?

Kind of an ends justifies the means argument wouldn't you say? Kill a 100,000 of so of the enemy thus sparing a million of them as well as a couple of 100,000 of your own. Tough one.

Is evil really that subjective?

It looks that way does it not?

Examples like the above are fairly extreme but illustrate well the conundrum we're in because most people (it seems to me) are moral absolutists (especially the deeply religious) regardless of their culture (probably human nature to be so). It's also why cultures clash and always will. It is why East and West will eventually wipe one or the other out.

[jeepmor]

Damn, beat me to the Hillary pic.

[Perd Hapley]

It's also why cultures clash and always will. It is why East and West will eventually wipe one or the other out.

Is that before or after the race war that you've predicted? 

[Werewolf]

It's also why cultures clash and always will. It is why East and West will eventually wipe one or the other out.

Is that before or after the race war that you've predicted? 

Pretty much the same thing. Just different cultures. When is irrelevant if the USA can homogenize it's cultures because then their won't be a race war. That's doubtful though considering how the PC police have taken control of things.

But, to answer your question - even though you were just being condescending and not asking seriously I'd have to say if the multiculturalists keep getting their way the showdown between Black and White will be first and the East/West final confronatation after. Give it 50 to 100 years. You probably won't see it but your kids and grand kids will.

[Strings]

I got to talking to someone about the potential coming civil war. I pointed out that it won't be "This side vs That side", but probably countless "sides", breaking along all sorts of different lines (racial, cultural, religious, you name it)...

 Think the scene towords the end of Reservoir Dogs, and you'll get the impression I have of the coming conflict.

 Hate t say it, but I REALLY hope I'm not around anymore at that point...

[RevDisk]

Is evil really that subjective?

In a word, yes.

I've met mass murderers and war criminals who I did not consider evil.  Seen them play with their kids, get berated by their wifes, laugh with them over beers, and they gave me tours of mass graves.  I hired as a driver/translator a former Durzhavna Sigurnost agent, whom the KGB employed for their more brutal wetwork, who put a spy in an oven and cranked the temperature.  Nice guy, loved America and us Americans, devoted husband, wasn't an evil guy in the least.

I've also met folks who have done nothing (that I knew of), that one look in their eyes convinced me they had no soul.  I dunno, some folks make me keep my right hand free and very close to my weapon.  Met plenty of run of the mill scumbags that were only moderately or mildly evil.  I'm not sure whether to consider the truly insane or nuts to be evil or not.  If someone is completely not there upstairs, can they be evil?  I've always equated evil to intelligent intentional thought.  By intelligent, I mean, someone is driving the bus even if it's a bit on the short side.

I suspect Preacher or BrokenPaw would be better at explaining this than I.  I've known people that have done many evil deeds, but were not evil people.  But I've also known people that were pure evil regardless of their actions.  I don't know how to explain it.   It's nice when the good guys are really the good guys, and the bad guys are really the bad guys.  But there's an awful lot of grey areas in this world.

[Werewolf]

I've known people that have done many evil deeds, but were not evil people.  But I've also known people that were pure evil regardless of their actions.  I don't know how to explain it.   It's nice when the good guys are really the good guys, and the bad guys are really the bad guys.  But there's an awful lot of grey areas in this world.

Maybe it all boils down to intent???

[tokugawa]

"Maybe it boils down to intent"- yeah , I thought of that too, werewolf, but then we are up against the old argument "the end justifies the means", the big excuse for Nazism and Stalinism etc.

[Werewolf]

"Maybe it boils down to intent"- yeah , I thought of that too, werewolf, but then we are up against the old argument "the end justifies the means", the big excuse for Nazism and Stalinism etc.

It'd be nice if we lived in a world of absolutes where everything could be defined in terms of black and white, 1's and 0's but we don't live in that world. We live in a world where there are myriad shades of gray and an infinite number of unique rational and irrational numbers between 0 and 1. And therein lies the conundrum.

Most people want things simple. They want to be able to define things in terms of good and evil. They want black and white because that is what makes things simple. It's the human nature version at the macro level of ZERO TOLERANCE.

Acknowledging that there are situations that are neither black nor white is contrary to most folks' simple view of the world which is why in my experience most regular folks seem to be moral absolutists. Why? Because it is easier to live in a black and white world and not have to use a natural ability to judge than it is to live in a world where life isn't simple and everything isn't resolved down to the simplest level of yes/no, right/wrong, good/evil.

Good and evil are subjective so YES - sometimes - the ends do justify the means and intent does count because the universe isn't digital - it's analog and not everything can be reduced to black or white, good or evil, or yes or no.

For example: I'd bet all the Japanese civilians and US armed forces, and all their families, children and grandchildren whose lives were saved or made possible because the US killed 100,000+ civilians by dropping nukes on Japan in WWII and thus avoiding a costly invasion would agree that sometimes the ends do justify the means.