Author Topic: Advice on German Shepherds, King and Shiloh Shepherd needed.  (Read 5535 times)

Snowdog

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Advice on German Shepherds, King and Shiloh Shepherd needed.
« on: November 17, 2007, 10:13:28 PM »
As some may already know, my beloved German shepherd of 10 years died suddenly of GDV a few days ago.  He was an excellent sentry and provided a great sense of security when my wife was home alone (I sometimes work 3rd). 
The remaining dog, a 8-year-old Boxer, makes a great pet but he's never made much of a guard dog. My wife and I strongly suspect he's not long behind the shepherd as he won't eat, hardly drinks and lays around all day hardly moving (he was exuberant and happy with the shepherd just days ago).  Yesterday I found him absent from his bed/pillow inside and found him laying on the grave of the shepherd, not digging, just laying on the mound of dirt.

I've been researching my options and have been toying with the idea of a GSD hybrid such as a King shepherd or Shiloh shepherd.  The research on-line is frustrating as there are so many opinions and philosophies concerning these two rare breeds (neither of which are yet recognized by the AKC and are considered a "breed in progress" by many).  I find the lack of AKC standards a point of concern since one breeder's vision of a Shiloh or King might not be the same as a competitor's.  However, I must say I like some of the characteristics of these breeds, especially those of the black/tan smooth-coat King shepherds that look like huge 130+ pound GSD supposedly designed to carry the weight without increased propensity in developing HD.  What I don't like is the supposed "mellow" temperament classified as either soft or medium soft.  I would prefer more of a medium hard temperament similar to that of my deceased shepherd; he was not only aloof of strangers, but downright distrustful towards them until he became familiar with them, which took time.  He wouldn't bark at them incessantly, but he would vigilantly watch their every move, especially when this "stranger" was in close proximity of a family member, while making it well known if ever he felt they were getting "out of line" with a family member (too loud, rapid gesticulations, etc). His intelligence, curiousity and slightly aggressive nature ensured he would investigate each and every curious "bump in the night".  If he was kosher with the suspicious noise after his certain independant assessment, we knew all was well and we could sleep soundly.

My current options that I'm pondering is either purchasing two pet-quality GSD pups of the same litter from a reputable breeder of quality (and large bone) sire and dams or to go with a King shepherd (or possibly Shiloh) and perhaps a large-breed pound puppy as a companion.  I'm expecting an investment (for just the pup/pups) of $1,200 to $1,500.  I know I could obtain a GSD for $500 or less from some, but I have encountered too many people who have taken this inexpensive route and ended up with GSD from questionable bloodlines that develops a multitude of problems concerning temperament and health.
As I intend to keep these animals for the protection of my family and essentially as loved family members for at least a decade, I can stomach this investment.  However, since I have a goal investment of $1,500 tops, that essentially limits me to either two pet-quality large bone GSDs of solid bloodlines or only one King or Shiloh as they appear to draw quite a premium.
I'm slightly leaning in favor of two GSDs as I'm nearly certain two 85 pound GSDs would be a bit more formitable against an assailant than a single 130-150 pound GSD-derived hulking behemoth.

Here are my questions: 

1) Does anyone among us have personal experience with King or Shiloh shepherds?  I vaguely understand the differences between the two; I understand the general make-up of Kings being 25% American show GSD, 25% Great Pyrenees and 50% German working-line "Old World" GSD while the Shiloh is crossed with a Malamute somewhere along its lines.  However, I don't know how they stack up against each other in terms of health issues, intelligence, temperament and size (prioritized in that order).  Any info would be greatly appreciated.

2) Are there any issues I should be concerned with if I were to purchase two male GSD pups from the same litter?  For example, would they be harder to house train?   Will they clash and brawl with each other in attempts to establish or reestablish a pecking order? Would it be wise to opt for a male and female instead? 

3) Does anyone have knowledge of a reputable breeder expecting a litter of pups or planned breeding of two large bone (smooth coat/ short hair) GSDs?  Likewise, does anyone among us know of a trusted breeder of quality Kings or Shilohs that may be expecting pups soon?

A sincere thanks in advance!

Dan

roo_ster

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Re: Advice on German Shepherds, King and Shiloh Shepherd needed.
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2007, 07:49:15 AM »
Snowdog:

First off, I have no personal knowledge of KS or SS.

I do think you are on the right track with your selection of a less-popular/hybrid dog breed.  Lots of the popular breeds are full of bad genes, nowadays, making it difficult to find a good:
GSD
Lab
Beagle
etc.

Good luck on your search and I hope your boxer pulls through losing his buddy.  I really hope your family does not have to bury two pooches in quick succession.
Regards,

roo_ster

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K Frame

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Re: Advice on German Shepherds, King and Shiloh Shepherd needed.
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2007, 06:27:03 PM »
"Does anyone among us have personal experience with King or Shiloh shepherds?"

Yes.

I was, for a short period of time, registrar of the King Shepherd Club of America.

Don't ask why it was a short period of time. I'll just say that dog club people make Republican/Democrat infighting look like toy tugs of war at a nursery school.

Both Kings and Shilos are recognized by the American Rare Breed Association. You won't have AKC standards for any dogs that come under the ARBA banner, and there are a LOT of dogs that fall under the ARBA banner.

To be perfectly honest, the fact that some of these dogs haven't come under the auspices of AKC isn't a bad thing at all in my opinion. Unscrupulous AKC breeders promoting popularity of some breeds like GSDs, Collies, and Labs have been responsible for bringing horrific problems into breedlines in their quest to develop the "perfect looking" dog.

I have little use for most things AKC.

Also, in my opinion, the "breed differences" between Kings and Shilos are more about breeder feuding and less about the actual genetic makeup of the dogs.


Get in touch with this guy...

David at asgardkennel@yahoo.com.

Tell him I sent you so no bullshit. Smiley

David and his wife had Freiya, the most incredible King I've ever met. She and my Ruger were best friends. Both Ruger and Freiya went on ahead this year.

Let me know if he doesn't get back to you in a couple of days. He's traveling for the Holiday. I'll rattle his cage.


As for your Boxer, he's grieving the loss of his friend. It's as tough for animals as it is humans. Spend extra time with him, try to engage him in play. Let him know that his friend may be gone but you're still around.

Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.