It's the Great American Meatout today!

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

Proof by repetition is not proof.
Hiding behind authority is not proof.

Show me the numbers.

- NF

[K Frame]

So, the United States Department of Agriculture and the Centers for Disease Control aren't good enough for you, yet a paper from an institute in Britain is, especially when that paper is talking about conditions that have absolutely NO bearing on what you're practicing?

How about the Food and Drug Administration? Are their recommendations authoritative enough for you? I'd guess not.

That "hiding behind authority" canard that you so blythly threw out works both ways, doubly so when you link to a completely unrelated study about turnip juice. Tell us, what kind of "authority" does it require for you to make a temporal leap that "meat = turnip juice," Nathaniel?

Yet, we're to believe that simply because you've been "doing it for years" that YOU, on the other than, ARE an authoritative source for information on the safe handling of food?

Let's take a look at the very first line of the introduction... "Clostridium botulinum is an anaerobic spore-forming pathogen..."

You see that big word anaerobic? You know what that means? I already posted what it means, and explained why the SURFACE of meat isn't an anaerobic.

Can you actually provide a link to any information regarding the two most common bacteria that affect food?

Camplybacter and Salmonella? Both of those are aerobic bacteria, meaning they grow well, even profusely, in the presence of air.

You want numbers? Given that the numbers you originally tried to provide don't have any bearing on what's being discussed here, I'm not sure you'd accept any numbers from any source as being valid.

Go ahead and play Russian Roulette with your food. Just down blow someone else's gut away with patently poor advice.

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

No numbers. Just more proof by repetition, with a side of proof by intimidation and a thin slice of ad hominem for dessert. I doubt that anyone cares anymore.

I hereby declare this thread wrecked.

- NF.

[SADShooter]

For what it's worth, the reheated steak was sliced and laid over a really good Greek salad. My audience insists this one goes into the repertoire. Can we all shake greasy hands and get back to our mutual admiration for MEAT? Please?

[K Frame]

Once again, Nathaniel, your proof doesn't even measure up to a viable standard of comparison. By your own standard, you're as guilt as I supposedly am, you just either won't or can't admit it.

You claim to abhore "hiding behind authority," yet what was the first thing you did when I questioned your unsafe techniques? You reverted to a dubious "authority" (from the standpoint of correlation and applicabiilty, not from the actual merits of the study or the education of the authors) to back up your position, apparently without reading it.

I'm sure that USDA's, CDCs, and FDA's food scientists are just pulling these recommendations out of their collective asses just to annoy people.

Tell you what, Nathaniel.

You've posted advice that contradicts just about everything that can be found by any reputable organizational resource the world over. Not just the scientific groups/organizations, but the groups/organizations that actually raise the products we're talking about.

I'd say that it's up to YOU to provide authoritative, on-point scientific information that supports your point of view that defrosting meat products in warm water is both safe and effective.

Reverting back to the "I've done it for years" isn't proof, either.

[Ben]

Or at least make fun of tofu eaters......

I'm having a meatball sandwich for lunch today (I ended up not getting pizza yesterday despite the cruel temptations put forth here, so the meatball makes up for it).

[Harold Tuttle]

do i have to post some pictures of African markets with bushmeat on display?

tis a wonder we survived the darkages...

[Scout26]

Deer Jerky normally doesn't make it through Jan.  The Deer Bacon made to Feb this year (only because I got twice as much as last year).  Half a bag of SlimJims still hidden in the fridge in the garage.  Down to about 30 lbs of ground Venison and quite a few steaks (Those get saved for Grillin' season).

Had Pheasant Terikayi (sp) last night, leftovers from Sunday's dinner.

A meal without meat is like going hungry.......

[doczinn]

Regardless of what may or may not grow on or in the meat, if you COOK IT PROPERLY it's perfectly safe.

On a related topic, a good reply to health concerns is that (according to the Esquire magazine in the barber shop today) top sirloin (my favorite cut) is leaner than a skinless chicken thigh.

[Stand_watie]

Regardless of what may or may not grow on or in the meat, if you COOK IT PROPERLY it's perfectly safe.

On a related topic, a good reply to health concerns is that (according to the Esquire magazine in the barber shop today) top sirloin (my favorite cut) is leaner than a skinless chicken thigh.

And I think we can all agree that only morons and idiots don't blacken their red meat and use cavenders Greek seasoning.




I just thought I'd be confrontational since this thread seemed to be going that way.

Seriously, salmonella's no fun, but I think those little barstids are on practically everything, so I'm pretty hip on hand sanitization and thorough cooking. On the other hand, I'll bet you build up a resistance to salmonella, botulism, e. coli etc, or the folks in third world countries would all be constantly ill.

[K Frame]

"if you COOK IT PROPERLY it's perfectly safe."

To the Fed. Gov't., properly means meat that has been heated, and held, to a minimum of 170 deg. F, or well done.

How many people here actually like their steaks well done? I know I don't. That's why proper handling of the raw, pre-cooking product is so much more important.



"On the other hand, I'll bet you build up a resistance to salmonella, botulism, e. coli etc, or the folks in third world countries would all be constantly ill."

You're not far off. You CAN build up resistances to many of the little pathogens.

Botulism is another critter, though. It's not the bacteria that's so bad, it's the bacteria's waste products. It's a very powerful neurotoxin, and even trace amounts ingested can be fatal. We eat the bacteria that cause botulism every day because it's very common in soil virtually the world around. It's when it's allowed to grow that it becomes a serious problem.

Have you ever heard that it's not at all good to give honey to children under about 2 years old? The reason for that is that honey contains high concentrations of botulism bacteria spores. In a young child's stomach, the bacteria can begin to multiply. Once it does that, things go bad very quickly.

[gunsmith]

meat is safe?   I thinks it's a matter of time before bovine spongiform encephalopathy wrecks the meat industry
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/bse/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovine_spongiform_encephalopathy
feeding cows the diseased brains of sheep was a stupid idea to begin with, and only recently has the meat industry began to stop putting "downer cows" into the market for human consumption.
If I was hunting for food, I would pick the healthiest looking animal to eat, the meat industry was giving us the sickest to save a few dollars. I tend to avoid meat my self, I just don't trust big industry to be "looking out for me"
to paraphrase bill O.
If your going to eat meat , you would be better off going out there and hunting your own...imho...