Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Hawkmoon on December 25, 2021, 10:19:42 AM
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The younger generation don't seem to have any idea how things work. Current example:
I'm a member of a writers' forum. A person posted yesterday, asking for help with a WIP ("Work In Progress"). What we were told:
He (or she) has an idea for a main character. It will be a female, one of five sisters. Her age is unknown -- early 20s to early 30s. Her occupation is unknown -- possibly a lawyer, possibly a journalist, or possibly a student. The setting will be "urban" -- no other information provided. The would-be author stated that he/she has no plot, and has no central conflict for the main character to confront and overcome. The would-be author refers to this snippet of information as a WIP, and ended the opening post with, "What do I do?"
In a follow-up post, he wrote, "I have no plot ideas."
Along with several other members of the site, I responded that I don't think the would-be author has a WIP, because there isn't enough information to do anything with. So I woke up this morning to find a new post from our would-be New York Times best selling author:
This is where some of you are wrong and are making assumptions. I do have a setting, I have done worldbuilding and I have a magic system (it could be fleshed out more in some places but there is a good basis), I have a couple of characters and wrote down their personalities (could be fleshed out more, yes), I know what kind of themes I would like to write.
I have been brainstorming on this story all year.
I just have not shared all that information in my first post. So, I do have a WIP. I have 3 more WIPs.
This seems to be typical behavior for what I perceive to be a millennial -- ask for help, withhold potentially useful information, and then act all butt-hurt when people don't give you the answers you wanted.
There's another member of that forum who behaves the same way, and whose posts I have disciplined myself to ignore. I suspect this person will also end up on my personal ignore list.
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Seems to me he's writing a fantasy novel...
A fantasy about him actually having a work in progress.
I was on a couple of writer's forums for awhile some years ago.
What you're describing isn't just millennial activities, it's more a sign of an individual being a bit on the petulant side, which isn't a generational attribute; it's part of the overall human condition.
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Your WIP-er seems to be someone looking for someone with creative talent to do the creating.
Woody
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I think this is more a reflection of many modern writers who seem to think that the actual plot is a strong female character(s) being out in the world fighting bias and showing the world that women are powerful. That is his story, he just doesn't realize many readers think it isn't enough.
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I've run into people like that - because THEY have thought about something and know some details, they think EVERYONE ELSE knows the details, too.
I had that problem myself - but I grew out of it in grammar school. EARLY grammar school.
Some people never grow out of it.
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Hawkmoon: "withhold potentially useful information"
HankB: "I've run into people like that - because THEY have thought about something and know some details, they think EVERYONE ELSE knows the details, too."
I too have mentioned that "everyone else knows what's in my mind" syndrome both here and on another board.
It sometimes shows up as drive-by video URLs, but also just as a statement "out of the blue" with no referents.
As I've said, "Put the reader's head on your shoulders" when you re-read your own stuff.
Kind of annoying, but I've usually got more annoying things in life with which to deal.
Hawkmoon just happened to "trigger" this one.
Terry, 230RN
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RTBKNF.
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"She was a dark and stormy knight."
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I'm a member of a writers' forum. A person posted yesterday, asking for help with a WIP ("Work In Progress"). What we were told:
blah blah blah "What do I do?"
"Read more."
In a follow-up post, he wrote, "I have no plot ideas."
"Read more. Start with Lewis' 'On the Reading of Old Books'."
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Hell's bells, aren't there only seven basic plots?
I thought The Bard said that, but apparently someone named Booker enumerated them:
Wiki seven basic plots:
"According to Mr. Booker, there are only seven basic plots in the whole world -- plots that are recycled again and again in novels, movies, plays and operas. Those seven plots are: 1.Overcoming the Monster, 2.Rags to Riches, 3.The Quest, 4.Voyage and Return, 5.Rebirth, 6.Comedy and 7.Tragedy."
Research on this can turn into a rabbit hole.
Have at it. Dinner time for me.
Terry, 230RN
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Paranoid conspiracy theorist is vindicated.
And in the "romance" section of Amazon, Paranoid conspiracy theorist gets laid.
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Hell's bells, aren't there only seven basic plots?
I thought The Bard said that, but apparently someone named Booker enumerated them:
Wiki seven basic plots:
"According to Mr. Booker, there are only seven basic plots in the whole world -- plots that are recycled again and again in novels, movies, plays and operas. Those seven plots are: 1.Overcoming the Monster, 2.Rags to Riches, 3.The Quest, 4.Voyage and Return, 5.Rebirth, 6.Comedy and 7.Tragedy."
Research on this can turn into a rabbit hole.
Have at it. Dinner time for me.
Terry, 230RN
Hey Terry! Where does sex fit in in all of this? Seems to me that there is always a plot afoot with someone pursuing sex ... Been there, done tha... Eh, never mind. TMI. [popcorn]
Woody
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1. Find a book you like which sells well. Extra points if they've made a successful movie or TV series about it.
2. Get the book in the format of whichever word processing program you use.
3. Go paragraph by paragraph and reword it. Alter things like nationality of some characters. Extra points if you also gender or race change some of the characters.
4. Work in some wokeness, feminist, or other cr@p that's currently in fashion. Extra points if you include a nod to LGBTQEIEIO.
5. Submit to a publisher.
6. Profit!
Some of this may seem cynical, maybe a little funny - but based on some of the stuff I've seen, it works.
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We're doomed.
I made another attempt to offer some feedback, including some thought on how to proceed when you have no idea who or what you're writing about. My thanks?
I find your tone to be quite rude.
To me, a Work In Progress is something that is still in progress, for me the brainstorming and planning stage still counts as a WIP it is more than having nothing at all.
I do have my MC's personality and of her sisters and the MC's love interest and some minor characters as well.
I have a character concept of the antagonist.
In fact, I went out of my way to be as courteous and respectful as I could. However, since I didn't offer unqualified love, support, and admiration -- I'm "quite rude."
And, of course, this post reveals still more information that he had NOT previously disclosed. He's definitely going on my ignore list.
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He does seem, well, ....special. Can't tell if he wants you to
write his book brainstorm, or is just seeking praise and encouragement.
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We're doomed.
I made another attempt to offer some feedback, including some thought on how to proceed when you have no idea who or what you're writing about. My thanks?
In fact, I went out of my way to be as courteous and respectful as I could. However, since I didn't offer unqualified love, support, and admiration -- I'm "quite rude."
And, of course, this post reveals still more information that he had NOT previously disclosed. He's definitely going on my ignore list.
I agree with you that they don't have a work in progress so much as just a starting point, but they can call it whatever they want. It seems to me that all the character and world building is just busy work while they avoid the fact that they have no idea what to do with the characters and world. I don't know why one would go to that trouble if they still don't have a plot or journey for the main character(s). Might be best to shelve it until they do.
They might try looking at different histories. I think it was David Drake I am thinking of. In the preface of one of his Lt. Leary books, he mentioned getting the idea for the book I was reading from either Spanish or Venetian history from the middle ages. My thought is to put a pause on further development and go read. IMO, fact is often stranger than fiction so history is a good source. You just need to find something that goes deep into specific events. Or just start by reading Shakespeare if they are ignorant of history.
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Whether or not this person has a work in progress or not is secondary to his (or her) larger problem: he asked for help, leaving out major bits of highly relevant information, and then threw a hissy fit when people responded based on the information he provided. And he doesn't see (or doesn't acknowledge) that his omission of key information might have been important to guiding the people who tried to help him.
I have put him on ignore. Whatever software that site uses, he is now completely invisible to me. Literally. If he starts a new thread, if I somehow find my way into that thread, the first post I'll see is the first response by another member. I don't know if that's the way "ignore" works on other forums because I've never used it before. On that site, I now have two idiots on ignore.