Author Topic: Miata?  (Read 10794 times)

zahc

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Miata?
« on: April 01, 2013, 12:04:20 AM »
Does anyone have any experience with these? I'm thinking of getting one for a daily commuter/midlife-crisis-car and to save money over my Tahoe. There are a lot of them out there in the $3-5000 range, but most of them at that price are from the 90's or early '00s and have 150kish miles. Do these things hold up ok? Thankfully, this is Texas so there is no corrosion problem with old cars.
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French G.

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Re: Miata?
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2013, 01:05:53 AM »
Busa idea has merit. I regret abandoning a Gen II RX-7 I had. Steal the motor put a turbo rotor in a Miata and then you're getting somewhere.

Most interesting 'busa adaptation I've seen thus far was one stuck in a dirt midget. No trans of course, whole car light as heck. Mad engineer had to give the driver steering wheel buttons to retard the spark, it was buzzing the tires off above 10000rpm. Sounded evil even in a sea of angry buzzing 4cyls.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 01:10:33 AM by French G. »
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dogmush

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Re: Miata?
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2013, 05:14:22 AM »
Make sure you don't get one that has been road racing or Autocrossing. Those are likely beat to hell.

drewtam

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Re: Miata?
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2013, 09:19:06 AM »
Make sure you don't get one that has been road racing or Autocrossing. Those are likely beat to hell.

Miata's are some of the most road raced and autocrossed cars on the planet. Autocross doesn't hurt a car one bit. Stick in 2nd or 3rd gear the entire time, go 20-40mph.


Anyway, I daily drive a 2004 mazdaspeed miata. Before that, a 99 miata.

The cars are very well built and last a long time. Residual value (resale) is typically very high. Trunk space is small but manageable, I usually can fit a whole shopping cart of groceries in and still have room for the FNP45 bag.

All miata's are small, 2 seat, 4 cylinder, rear-wheel drive, convertibles. They were offered as 5 and 6spd manual, and automatic (but why would anyone?....) For all generations, lots of aftermarket support for changing suspension, stiffening frame, adding turbos, bigger race tires, installing roll bars, replacing seats, just about anything. This is a cheap racers sports car, and so there is a decent size industry for everything for it.

These cars are all about lightness for performance. So small, small, small is the rule of the day.

The manual convertible is so easy to work, I can do it at a red light from the driver seat. And I have done this quite often.

There are 3 generations of miata body style/drivetrain.

Late 80's to 97 called an "NA".
Mostly 1.6L [BP engine family], some later years optioned a 1.8L. Offered as a 5-speed manual. Lightest generation of the bunch. Soft suspension, but immensely fun. Very cheap, which makes it a good candidate for modding and hooning.

99 to 06 called "NB"
All are 1.8L [BP engine family], 5spd and 6spd. Big body style change from the NA. A little more expensive. 04 and 05 had a very limited mazdaspeed version with a factory turbo. Spring rates are still soft, but damping is pretty aggressive to give it an aggressive feel. Body roll is minimal. I prefer this generation's body style.

06 to current called "NC"
All are new 2.0L [new engine family: MZR]. Another body style change. Newest = most expensive. All are naturally aspirated, but this gen makes decent power from the 2L. I hear the suspension has stiffened and refined to something more modern. First generation to have powered convertible option.


Love, love, love this car. The feel of the steering is so awesome. The steering and handling is awesome, that speed limits feel meaningless. 75mph might as well be 35. The braking capacity is immense, and the shifter feels smooth and clutch feels natural.

The NA and NB naturally aspirated versions are not fast by any means. I'm talking early 90's V6 mustang slow, I'm talking minivan slow. But they out handle anything short of a Porsche on curves, stock. With gentle streetable mods (slightly stiffer suspension, and sticky tires) they are an absolute beast through any corner, easily pushing past over 1g. All generations use a double wishbone suspension on all four corners, no struts here. Which also makes for easier damper and spring upgrades.
Here is a after market turbo'd NA chasing down/passing a Viper at Thunderhill.
http://youtu.be/v0GrTGopcW4?t=48s


The engine and trans, while stock, are 200k+ mi reliable. They are designed with the budget racer in mind, so Mazda builds a LOT of engineering margin into these cars. The NA and NB engine families were built/designed with turbocharging in mind. They provided oil ports and low compression pistons and forged cranks on this BP engine family. All the engines are 4v/DOHC, with timing belt. Since it is a longitudinal engine, belt changes are a cake walk. Turbocharging is a very popular mod because it is so easy and makes the car really come alive. I would not be afraid of a used after market turbocharged version, if done by somebody that knows what they are doing. Otherwise, get a mazdaspeed with factory turbo and same engine.
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dogmush

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Re: Miata?
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2013, 09:28:45 AM »
Drew seems like a good source for info.

I would add however, that he must Autocross with better driver's then my local club.  Yeah, it ain't that fast, but it's still clutch dumping starts, lots of heavy braking, and the (not so) occasional sliding off the runway and into the potholes grass sideways at 30mph.  I've seen some interesting suspension bends come out of an autocross course.  

My opinion stands, if you're looking for a reliable Daily Driver, find one that hasn't been raced, or be a mechanic.

That said if you want a small, light sports car in the US, your choices are pretty limited. I don't think you can touch an S2000 at that price point.  You might find a Triumph or MG, but it'll be old, slower, and .......less reliable.  the Z cars got heavy about the 300 series.  Used Boxter maybe.  Or drop $25K on the new GT86.  Or shop and find a good Miata.  The American market doesn't really do light and nimble well.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 09:32:58 AM by dogmush »

HankB

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Re: Miata?
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2013, 10:26:11 AM »
Little sports cars can be fun, but sometimes it's better to drive an SUV.

(Looks more like a Corvette under there than a Miata . . . a Miata would start about where the 'Vette ended up, size-wise.)



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mtnbkr

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Re: Miata?
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2013, 10:35:13 AM »
Little sports cars can be fun, but sometimes it's better to drive an SUV.

(Looks more like a Corvette under there than a Miata . . . a Miata would start about where the 'Vette ended up, size-wise.)



SUVs can be fun to drive, but sometimes it's better to drive a semi:


There's always something bigger than you on the road, drive appropriately.

Chris

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Re: Miata?
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2013, 10:44:53 AM »
Semis are fun to drive, but sometimes it's better to drive a tank...

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Miata?
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2013, 11:13:15 AM »
Little sports cars can be fun, but sometimes it's better to drive an SUV.

(Looks more like a Corvette under there than a Miata . . . a Miata would start about where the 'Vette ended up, size-wise.)





did the suv drive over?  or the vette drive under?
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birdman

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Re: Miata?
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2013, 11:21:22 AM »
did the suv drive over?  or the vette drive under?

Neither, its the mating ritual that will result in the new Chrysler / GM sport crossover.

dogmush

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Re: Miata?
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2013, 11:28:32 AM »
Neither, its the mating ritual that will result in the new Chrysler / GM sport crossover.

Or it's where the new Camaro came from.

mtnbkr

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Re: Miata?
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2013, 11:35:37 AM »
back to the point of the original post...

I've not owned one myself, but my roommate when I first moved to NoVA had one.  He was frequently out of town on TDY for our company and I was given permission to drive his Miata as I saw fit.  This was 1996, I think the car was a 92 or 93 model (don't recall exactly, just that it wasn't new when he got it).  I enjoyed it immensely.  It wasn't the fastest car out there, but handled like a slot car.  The shifter was a joy, feeling like a toggle switch.  Steering was tight with just the right amount of power assist and road feedback.  I could raise or lower the top without getting out of the car.  It was plenty spacious for my 5'10"/200lb frame, but the top of the windhield was sometimes awkward if I pulled up to a traffic light at just the right distance.  That car was just plain fun to drive.

During the 3-4 years he owned it, it never suffered any issues. 

Chris

Jocassee

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Re: Miata?
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2013, 12:21:41 PM »
I drove a miata once. The top was down, otherwise I wouldn't have fit.
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Gewehr98

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Re: Miata?
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2013, 02:06:38 PM »
I've always liked the Hayabusa/Smart Car conversion. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLtMh20qIp8
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TechMan

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Re: Miata?
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2013, 02:27:03 PM »
I've always liked the Hayabusa/Smart Car conversion.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLtMh20qIp8

Did they replace the weed wacker engine with chain saw engine?   :laugh:
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drewtam

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Re: Miata?
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2013, 02:33:43 PM »
Well don't go half measures then...
http://www.flyinmiata.com/V8/silverMSM/index.php?start=26


BTW:
LS2 Miata and 427 shelby cobra, approx the same track and wheelbase and weight.
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zahc

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Re: Miata?
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2013, 02:35:39 PM »
I've heard about the LS1/2 engine swaps. The crazy thing is, an LS2 V8 is not really any heavier than the 4-cylinder miata engine, or so I've been told.

Maybe a rare occurence, but then you only have to get murdered once to ruin your whole day.
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drewtam

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Re: Miata?
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2013, 02:43:14 PM »
I've heard about the LS1/2 engine swaps. The crazy thing is, an LS2 V8 is not really any heavier than the 4-cylinder miata engine, or so I've been told.



That is correct. BP is iron block, good for boost, not too good for weight. I think the LS2 is possibly slightly lighter.

Most of the weight gain from the swap is the trans and lower drivetrain.
T56 is heavy beast, I think >180lbs. Stock 6spd is like 80-100lbs.
Plus big RX7 diff
Plus bigger half shafts
Plus bigger tires
minus weight for tube sub-frame

Adds up to a couple hundred pounds for the swap.
2300lb NB -> 2500lbs
2500lb Mazdaspeed -> 2600lbs

Good news is that since it is all lower drivetrain, the weight gains are low CG, and toward the rear. Stock balance is 52/48, I think some measured post swap balance to be 51/49.

I suspect the hard part is tubbing out the fenders to fit the massive rubber needed to control that much torque in a light chassis. I would be afraid of the short wheel base with that much power.  But maybe good rubber can mitigate that.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 02:56:23 PM by drewtam »
I’m not saying I invented the turtleneck. But I was the first person to realize its potential as a tactical garment. The tactical turtleneck! The… tactleneck!

drewtam

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Re: Miata?
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2013, 03:09:40 PM »
Oh I forgot, my forum avatar picture is taken from over the windshield in the Miata at the park...

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=40.791914,-89.583206&spn=0.020112,0.029182&t=m&z=15&layer=c&cbll=40.791887,-89.583048&panoid=LM6LN8Y1t9YWeve3JRWFhQ&cbp=12,267.98,,0,21.38

Fun drive from house to Kroger.
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birdman

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Re: Miata?
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2013, 05:41:48 PM »
At a local car event this past Saturday there was a LS2/miata...slick install, looks like fun.
Why not a solstice/LS2?

drewtam

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Re: Miata?
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2013, 06:08:38 PM »
I’m not saying I invented the turtleneck. But I was the first person to realize its potential as a tactical garment. The tactical turtleneck! The… tactleneck!

zxcvbob

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Re: Miata?
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2013, 06:29:09 PM »
I don't suppose a Buick 215 V8 (or the Oldsmobile "Jetfire" turbo 215, for a huge boost in torque) would fit in a Miata?  It might even be lighter than the original 4-cylinder.
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dogmush

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Re: Miata?
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2013, 06:41:39 PM »
Buick 215: 145hp/318lbs

LS2: 400HP/440lbs.

Prolly could, but why bother?

zxcvbob

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Re: Miata?
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2013, 06:49:56 PM »
Buick 215: 145hp/318lbs

LS2: 400HP/440lbs.

Prolly could, but why bother?

1) Some of the 215's were around 200HP; the Olds was 215HP and 300 lb·ft of torque.
2) I didn't think the LS engine would fit, because the 215 is probably pushing it. (I haven't been paying attention)  :P
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