Author Topic: A fun new anti-crime measure...lock down the city!  (Read 5747 times)

The Annoyed Man

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A fun new anti-crime measure...lock down the city!
« on: August 13, 2008, 03:35:45 AM »
I couldn't believe this one.  Institute a 24 hour curfew allowing stops without reason...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080813/ap_on_re_us/arkansas_town_curfew

My favorite line in the whole piece is the city counselman who says, and I quote:  "The citizens deserve peace, that some infringement on constitutional rights is OK and we have not violated anything as far as the Constitution."  This guy should be a trial attorney with that kind of double talk!

Manedwolf

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Re: A fun new anti-crime measure...lock down the city!
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2008, 03:43:35 AM »
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White signs on large blue barrels warn those passing by that the area remains under curfew by order of Mayor James Valley. The order was scheduled to end at 3 p.m. Tuesday, but Valley said the city council's vote would allow police to have the same powers across Helena-West Helena.

Nice place. Just needs some background fires to complete the picture of dystopia, hm?

PTK

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Re: A fun new anti-crime measure...lock down the city!
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2008, 03:50:36 AM »
How is that legal?
"Only lucky people grow old." - Frederick L.
September 1915 - August 2008

"If you really do have cancer "this time", then this is your own fault. Like the little boy who cried wolf."

crt360

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Re: A fun new anti-crime measure...lock down the city!
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2008, 04:20:06 AM »
My favorite line in the whole piece is the city counselman who says, and I quote:  "The citizens deserve peace, that some infringement on constitutional rights is OK and we have not violated anything as far as the Constitution."  This guy should be a trial attorney with that kind of double talk!

We're not violating, we're just infringing a little bit.  laugh

That sounds like one seriously screwed up place.
For entertainment purposes only.

Boomhauer

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Re: A fun new anti-crime measure...lock down the city!
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2008, 04:23:18 AM »
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How is that legal?

It's probably not, but no one is going to stand up to the mayor, of course. Even on THR, there was plenty of support for this...



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Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

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the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

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The Annoyed Man

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Re: A fun new anti-crime measure...lock down the city!
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2008, 04:26:56 AM »
How is that legal?

Who said it was?  They aren't talking about following the law, but rather ruling based upon what they believe to be common sense.  Problem is that when the "common sense" of the few restrains the rights and freedoms of the many, liberty is dead.  Do it right, and the many will actually thank you for doing it.

To paraphrase a line of an okay movie (Revenge of The Sith) ... "So this is how freedom dies, to thunderous applause."

Manedwolf

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Re: A fun new anti-crime measure...lock down the city!
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2008, 04:27:49 AM »
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How is that legal?

It's probably not, but no one is going to stand up to the mayor, of course. Even on THR, there was plenty of support for this...

That place going to the FUDDs, then? They seem to be of that mindset regardless of if it's Someone Else's Gun, Someone Else's Civil Liberties, etc...

Boomhauer

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Re: A fun new anti-crime measure...lock down the city!
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2008, 04:33:35 AM »
Quote
How is that legal?

It's probably not, but no one is going to stand up to the mayor, of course. Even on THR, there was plenty of support for this...

That place going to the FUDDs, then? They seem to be of that mindset regardless of if it's Someone Else's Gun, Someone Else's Civil Liberties, etc...

Several months ago, I pretty much stopped visiting THR in order to concentrate on this forum (which is a lot more interesting) and others, and then a few weeks ago I started going back...

The change is suprising...

We've got people who say that when they carry, they will not under any circumstances attempt to save someone else's life if their own life is not in danger. People who say they would not take a shot on an active shooter. People who believe you should not be able to own an AK. All kinds of stuff, and it seems to have gotten much worse over the past few months...

I think there were even a couple of posters who would not shoot a man trying to rape a woman...

Frankly, I'm extremely disgusting. What's the use of carrying a gun if you are going to be a pansy and only help yourself.
Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

PTK

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Re: A fun new anti-crime measure...lock down the city!
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2008, 04:44:02 AM »
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Frankly, I'm extremely disgusting.

Agreed.  cheesy



But seriously, you make a good point.
"Only lucky people grow old." - Frederick L.
September 1915 - August 2008

"If you really do have cancer "this time", then this is your own fault. Like the little boy who cried wolf."

The Annoyed Man

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Re: A fun new anti-crime measure...lock down the city!
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2008, 04:51:02 AM »
I go to THR strictly for gun information, like personal experiences with a certain make/model of gun if I'm considering it.  I drop by the Tactics area just for the sake of "war gaming," thinking of whta I might do in any given situation.  i stay here for the rest.

Nick1911

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Re: A fun new anti-crime measure...lock down the city!
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2008, 04:54:34 AM »
Frankly, I'm extremely disgusting. What's the use of carrying a gun if you are going to be a pansy and only help yourself.

Many seem to feel that the legal implications of shooting someone who isn't a direct threat to you outweigh the ethical implications of letting something bad happen to someone else.

I think this attitude is fostered by over-litigation and generally degraded values.  (Why spend two years in court and $20,000 to save someone you've never met?  Hint: "Because it's the right thing to do" isn't a valid reason to most people. )

Manedwolf

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Re: A fun new anti-crime measure...lock down the city!
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2008, 04:58:05 AM »
Frankly, I'm extremely disgusting. What's the use of carrying a gun if you are going to be a pansy and only help yourself.

Many seem to feel that the legal implications of shooting someone who isn't a direct threat to you outweigh the ethical implications of letting something bad happen to someone else.

I think this attitude is fostered by over-litigation and generally degraded values.  (Why spend two years in court and $20,000 to save someone you've never met?  Hint: "Because it's the right thing to do" isn't a valid reason to most people. )

Once, a hero might get a key to the city. Now, they get destroyed in the national media, and have to fight off civil suits from some lowlife's deadbeat family.

Look at what happened to that poor lady who stopped the church shooter, even. The media, people like Geraldo went and "exposed" how she was fired as a cop, etc... Tongue

wmenorr67

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Re: A fun new anti-crime measure...lock down the city!
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2008, 05:00:35 AM »
Hey locking down cities worked here in Iraq. police grin
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

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Balog

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Re: A fun new anti-crime measure...lock down the city!
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2008, 05:36:26 AM »
This kind of crap is why we have a 2nd amendment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)

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I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: A fun new anti-crime measure...lock down the city!
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2008, 08:21:32 AM »
i'm remeinded of the hair poulling and rent garments over the dc checkpoints in trinidad. and like there the wailing comes , not so strangly, from folks not in the affected areas. they aeren't shooting folks on sight for being on the street. they are attempting to make it so the people that live there don't have their kids sleeping in the bath tub. and if offends the folks in suburbia too bad.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

ilbob

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Re: A fun new anti-crime measure...lock down the city!
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2008, 08:37:47 AM »
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How is that legal?

It's probably not, but no one is going to stand up to the mayor, of course. Even on THR, there was plenty of support for this...
I don't know that I would say there was "plenty" of support for it on THR. Perhaps a little less of the "sky is falling" rhetoric.
bob

Disclaimers: I am not a lawyer, cop, soldier, gunsmith, politician, plumber, electrician, or a professional practitioner of many of the other things I comment on in this forum.

Perd Hapley

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Re: A fun new anti-crime measure...lock down the city!
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2008, 08:39:18 AM »
Frankly, I'm extremely disgusting.

So our suspicions are confirmed.
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Manedwolf

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Re: A fun new anti-crime measure...lock down the city!
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2008, 09:18:49 AM »
i'm remeinded of the hair poulling and rent garments over the dc checkpoints in trinidad. and like there the wailing comes , not so strangly, from folks not in the affected areas. they aeren't shooting folks on sight for being on the street. they are attempting to make it so the people that live there don't have their kids sleeping in the bath tub. and if offends the folks in suburbia too bad.

Putting the bad people they catch IN JAIL, not through a revolving door, would accomplish that.

mtnbkr

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Re: A fun new anti-crime measure...lock down the city!
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2008, 10:24:01 AM »
Many seem to feel that the legal implications of shooting someone who isn't a direct threat to you outweigh the ethical implications of letting something bad happen to someone else.

I think this attitude is fostered by over-litigation and generally degraded values.  (Why spend two years in court and $20,000 to save someone you've never met?  Hint: "Because it's the right thing to do" isn't a valid reason to most people. )

My responsibility is to my family and my family only.  If I'm unable to provide for them because I'm in jail or dead, will the family of the person I "rescued" provide for them?  No?  Didn't think so.

Chris

alex_trebek

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Re: A fun new anti-crime measure...lock down the city!
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2008, 11:07:16 AM »
Many seem to feel that the legal implications of shooting someone who isn't a direct threat to you outweigh the ethical implications of letting something bad happen to someone else.

I think this attitude is fostered by over-litigation and generally degraded values.  (Why spend two years in court and $20,000 to save someone you've never met?  Hint: "Because it's the right thing to do" isn't a valid reason to most people. )

My responsibility is to my family and my family only.  If I'm unable to provide for them because I'm in jail or dead, will the family of the person I "rescued" provide for them?  No?  Didn't think so.

Chris

Not to mention that personal security is an individual's responsibility.  Helping someone who is trying to help themselves compared to helping someone who chose to remain helpless, are two completely different cans of worms IMO. 

I am much more likely to help someone who tried to help themselves.  That said, I would help a helpless person only if minimal risk was involved.

Even then, I doubt they would be willing to contribute to the potential $100,000+ legal costs of going to court (that I can't afford).  Hell if you shot their attacker and somehow caused more injury to the victim (over penetration, hearing damage, hot brass in their face, etc), you might even open yourself up to a civil suit from them.  Stranger things have happened.

AZRedhawk44

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Re: A fun new anti-crime measure...lock down the city!
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2008, 11:15:31 AM »
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We've got people who say that when they carry, they will not under any circumstances attempt to save someone else's life if their own life is not in danger. People who say they would not take a shot on an active shooter. People who believe you should not be able to own an AK. All kinds of stuff, and it seems to have gotten much worse over the past few months...

I think there were even a couple of posters who would not shoot a man trying to rape a woman...

There's some caveats that you're not completely analyzing before engaging your shooter or rapist.

Shooter:  This could be a plainclothes officer.  You don't really know what he's shooting at, and you don't know what started the shooting.  Engaging a target that hasn't engaged you might not be self defense when all the facts come to light.

Rapist:  The girl in this case, or even the guy, could have a fetish for wanting to experiment with role-playing an alley rape.  They could both be consentual in the act, but look otherwise.  Stupid?  Absolutely... but if you shoot him over it, you'll end up in jail, and sued for everything you own.

Not every situation is as clear-cut as it looks.

That being said, I'd also have an awfully hard time walking away from either of those situations if I could have a reasonable chance of changing the probable outcome.  I know how you feel, but those other people on THR/TFL or elsewhere have thought their position out every bit as well as you have thought out yours.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: A fun new anti-crime measure...lock down the city!
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2008, 12:40:00 PM »
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Rapist:  The girl in this case, or even the guy, could have a fetish for wanting to experiment with role-playing an alley rape.  They could both be consentual in the act, but look otherwise.  Stupid?  Absolutely... but if you shoot him over it, you'll end up in jail, and sued for everything you own.

Sued, yeah.  In jail?  I should hope not.  If you and your sweetie-pie set up something that looks for all the world like rape, and you get shot, that's on you. 
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Boomhauer

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Re: A fun new anti-crime measure...lock down the city!
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2008, 12:56:00 PM »
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Rapist:  The girl in this case, or even the guy, could have a fetish for wanting to experiment with role-playing an alley rape.  They could both be consentual in the act, but look otherwise.  Stupid?  Absolutely... but if you shoot him over it, you'll end up in jail, and sued for everything you own.

Ah, but what if I don't shoot the guy, but go up to him, stick my 1911 in his ear, and tell him to take his hands off the girl?

Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

Manedwolf

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Re: A fun new anti-crime measure...lock down the city!
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2008, 12:58:43 PM »
Quote
Rapist:  The girl in this case, or even the guy, could have a fetish for wanting to experiment with role-playing an alley rape.  They could both be consentual in the act, but look otherwise.  Stupid?  Absolutely... but if you shoot him over it, you'll end up in jail, and sued for everything you own.

Ah, but what if I don't shoot the guy, but go up to him, stick my 1911 in his ear, and tell him to take his hands off the girl?



Then you're too damned close. Thirty feet and command voice. "Gun in ear" means that if he's trained in martial arts or is a vet with combat hand to hand training somewhere in his head, you just gave him a gun.

You want to stop something like that? Thirty feet away, position for best backstop, (like a brick wall), draw, aim at BG center of mass. Authoritarian voice. "STOP! GET AWAY FROM HER. GET ON THE GROUND, NOW!" ...or most appropriate variant thereof. If he runs away, good, call 911, making sure to give a description of yourself and that you are legally armed, so the cops don't think you're a threat. If he runs to attack you, you have time and space to shoot.

MicroBalrog

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Re: A fun new anti-crime measure...lock down the city!
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2008, 01:02:39 PM »
And yet we are not being oppressed. Not at all, I tell you.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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