Here it is: Arm teh poor TSA agents....

[AZRedhawk44]

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/11/arming-tsa-officers-hits-resistance-on-the-hill-99345_Page2.html

The motive for the shootings remains a mystery

 

No, it's really not much of a mystery.  But thanks for playing Name That Statist Tune.


The article presents the nightmare scenario:  All TSA drones with GEDs get guns, cuffs and badges:

Friday’s slaying of a Transportation Security Administration officer at Los Angeles International Airport is fueling calls from union leaders to give some of the agency’s employees guns, handcuffs and the power to make arrests.

Then goes on to posit a "compromise" scenario...a new class of TSA agent with LEA training.

create a new category of TSA agent in addition to the 45,000 existing screeners. People in the new positions would be law enforcement officers, who could carry handcuffs and firearms as well as make arrests.

Just say "NO!" to more shiny badges and federal gun toters.  There's already cops at these airports.

[Fitz]

I'm all for arming the TSA agents. Under the same conditions as Americans.

Wanna pass a law to "arm" them? Do it thusly.

"an ACT, by the morons in congress, dated blah blah blah

TSA agents can hereby be armed in accordance with all state, local, and federal laws of the jurisdiction in which they work."


Nothing more is needed. Want to allow them to be armed in an airport? Remove restrictions on airport carry.

[Jamisjockey]

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/11/arming-tsa-officers-hits-resistance-on-the-hill-99345_Page2.html

 

No, it's really not much of a mystery.  But thanks for playing Name That Statist Tune.


The article presents the nightmare scenario:  All TSA drones with GEDs get guns, cuffs and badges:

Then goes on to posit a "compromise" scenario...a new class of TSA agent with LEA training.

Just say "NO!" to more shiny badges and federal gun toters.  There's already cops at these airports.

Yep.  Not much of a rampage when he was brought down pretty much right away. 

[AZRedhawk44]

I'm just so horribly disgusted by the contrast between protection for FedGuv drones, versus protection for the rest of us.

Get shot up at schools, malls and other Victim Disarmament Zones?  No, there will be no repeal of ineffective anti-gun laws. 

But, if you're one of the shiny badgers... TPTB will bend over backwards and have legislation ready the same week of the "crisis" to further empower the GuvDrone.

[Tallpine]

Yeah, guns for Team Sexual Assault but not for Teachers 

I mean ... the TSA having guns would just escalate the situation 

The motive for the shootings remains a mystery

Can anyone really be that dumb 

[T.O.M.]

Not looking to start a flame war, but I see this as an okay idea.  Why?  If you want to arm these guys and give them LEO authority, they have to graduate from FLETC.  That requirement alone should improve the quality of the people working at these checkpoints, as opposed to some of the drones working there now.  This would likely speed up the process, and get me on my plane faster than it happens now with the idiots working there.

That said, what would arming these agents have done in this situation.  It was an ambush.  All weapons would have done in the hands of TSA would have allowed them to return fire, and in the crowds at the checkpoints, that would have meant innocents in a cross-fire, so unacceptable collateral damage.  I'm sure no one in DC thinks this way, and can only picture a heroic agent making a one-shot stop through the crowd to end the shooting before it started.  Reality requires knowledge, and that's a rare commodity among the decision-makers.

[Ben]

This wouldn't be "arming every TSA agent". I'm against armed TSA, however I'd be more in favor of a limited number of TSA agents that, as Chris pointed out, would have to graduate FLETC, having a gun and badge, than I am of this:

On Friday, union officials initially suggested simply giving every agent arrest powers. But they said Monday that that would be only a half-step.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/11/arming-tsa-officers-hits-resistance-on-the-hill-99345.html#ixzz2jmlNGdJ2

EVERY TSA agent having powers of arrest would be far worse than a small group of armed TSA officers. The TSA officers that would be most exposed to using powers of arrest are the low level "hired via an ad on a pizza box" drones at checkpoints.

Again, I see both as bad, but the latter as by far the worst.

[Sergeant Bob]

Borer, from the union, suggested Ciancia’s apparent hatred of the TSA was linked to anti-agency rhetoric in Congress and the media.
“Is it directly related?” Borer asked. “I don’t know. I don’t pretend to know. But if all you hear on Fox News and the right-wing media day after day, that TSA is the enemy and these officers are molesting people.”
Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-Calif.) agreed, saying conservative organizations had created a “culture of hatred” against TSA.
“We’ve got to be more careful as leaders in the country in how we’re treating the TSA,” said Swalwell, who serves on the subcommittee that oversees the agency. He added, “When you demonize these folks the way you do, you fire up extremists.”


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/11/arming-tsa-officers-hits-resistance-on-the-hill-99345_Page2.html#ixzz2jmrqRWlm

Big surprise!   It's all the fault of conservatives and Fox News!

[Tallpine]

As if folks can't see and understand what the TSA is doing to them and get extremely upset all by themselves 

[T.O.M.]

No hijack intended, but I'm feeling a bit concerned about some of the language I'm hearing from DC and other placed lately.  from the NFL, we're seeing new "anti-bullying" actions from the Miami Dolphins, and the league in general.  This article talking about conservatives rhetoric against TSA inciting violence.  From our HR types here at the courthouse, advising me that I need to be careful not to offend people when i'm sending them to jail.  I'm seeing more and more people talk about their right to not be offended.  Free speech is a blessing and a curse. We can say what we want (withing logical limits) without fear of reprisal or punishment.  If I think my congresscritter is lousy at his job, I can say so.  But it seems to be getting more tenuous of late.  I've heard (just rumor) that some court decisions are being appealed not on basis of law, but because the findings of fact are offensive.  Not inaccurate, but offensive.  I'm being warned in seminars to choose my words carefully so that I don't offend someone, I just rule against them.  This "no offense" stance is crap.  If I speak the truth, and someone is offended by that truth, tough.

Rant off.  It's been a bad week at court here, and it's only Tuesday...

[AZRedhawk44]

This wouldn't be "arming every TSA agent". I'm against armed TSA, however I'd be more in favor of a limited number of TSA agents that, as Chris pointed out, would have to graduate FLETC, having a gun and badge, than I am of this:

EVERY TSA agent having powers of arrest would be far worse than a small group of armed TSA officers. The TSA officers that would be most exposed to using powers of arrest are the low level "hired via an ad on a pizza box" drones at checkpoints.

Again, I see both as bad, but the latter as by far the worst.

Do you REALLY want somebody armed on the "side" of the TSA?

Right now, when someone of a more liberty-minded persuasion has a peaceful conflict with TSA folks and it escalates to Authoritah, that Authoritah is most frequently represented by local cops.  They assess the situation, roll their eyes, scoff at the TSA-tards, tell the liberty-minded person to either follow the rules or get out of the terminal, and all is done.  No drawn guns, and they don't arrest because they know the "infractions" in  the screening zone are a load of hogwash.

Put an armed person on the side of the TSA there, and you'll get more arrests, more altercations, and you'll start getting people shot.  It will breed "lawlessness" because enforcement against "lawlessness" is a matter of perception.

Someone with a gun and a badge that actually says TSA will result in heavier-handed screening.  Doesn't matter if the GED recipient playing the role of 2x2-hands-of-blue actually has a gun or arrest powers.  Team mentality comes into play here.

Best for everyone if no one armed is on the TSA's team.

[roo_ster]

No more shiny federale badges.  No more armed federales.  No more federales with arrest powers.

They want feds with guns at the airports, they can re-assign some of their currently armed federales.

[Tallpine]

I will say that the federal deputy marshalls that screen federal buildings are much more polite and professional than the TSA.

Of course they are a whole different class of people to begin with  

Billings airport wasn't quite so bad until they got the nude-o-scopes.

[RoadKingLarry]

Not looking to start a flame war, but I see this as an okay idea.  Why?  If you want to arm these guys and give them LEO authority, they have to graduate from FLETC.  That requirement alone should improve the quality of the people working at these checkpoints, as opposed to some of the drones working there now.  This would likely speed up the process, and get me on my plane faster than it happens now with the idiots working there.

That said, what would arming these agents have done in this situation.  It was an ambush.  All weapons would have done in the hands of TSA would have allowed them to return fire, and in the crowds at the checkpoints, that would have meant innocents in a cross-fire, so unacceptable collateral damage.  I'm sure no one in DC thinks this way, and can only picture a heroic agent making a one-shot stop through the crowd to end the shooting before it started.  Reality requires knowledge, and that's a rare commodity among the decision-makers.

 

You've been part of "them" too long.

[Ben]

Do you REALLY want somebody armed on the "side" of the TSA?

Reread my post.

I'm against armed TSA

My point is that people are more up in arms (ha ha) about talk of a small group of TSA employees being Federal officers than they are about the worse threat, that EVERY TSA agent has the powers of arrest. There is enough problem with abuse of powers of arrest from academy trained LEOs. The only way to get every TSA officer approved for powers of arrest is likely a crash web course to say they are "certified".

Someone unqualified and poorly trained in powers of arrest is a MUCH bigger threat to me than a Fed with a gun. There is a much bigger chance that the poorly trained screener can ruin my life because I looked at him or her the wrong way, than of me even running into a TSA agent with a gun.  I would predict a LOT of false arrest cases, but even when charges are dropped, you have a record and the legal fees to fight the feds to get it off your record would be prohibitive.

[roo_ster]

No hijack intended, but I'm feeling a bit concerned about some of the language I'm hearing from DC and other placed lately.  from the NFL, we're seeing new "anti-bullying" actions from the Miami Dolphins, and the league in general.  This article talking about conservatives rhetoric against TSA inciting violence.  From our HR types here at the courthouse, advising me that I need to be careful not to offend people when i'm sending them to jail.  I'm seeing more and more people talk about their right to not be offended.  Free speech is a blessing and a curse. We can say what we want (withing logical limits) without fear of reprisal or punishment.  If I think my congresscritter is lousy at his job, I can say so.  But it seems to be getting more tenuous of late.  I've heard (just rumor) that some court decisions are being appealed not on basis of law, but because the findings of fact are offensive.  Not inaccurate, but offensive.  I'm being warned in seminars to choose my words carefully so that I don't offend someone, I just rule against them.  This "no offense" stance is crap.  If I speak the truth, and someone is offended by that truth, tough.

Rant off.  It's been a bad week at court here, and it's only Tuesday...

Just looked the NFL deal up and have a great big WTH?  Have these Miami mgt and NFL types ever actually played football?  Trash talk is as common as dirt.  The world's oldest trick to get in someone's head.  Been happening since the first cavemen tossed spears at each other across a contested stream.  Easiest way to stop it is to hand the talker his ass.  On field or off, whatever it takes.  Hard to trash talk when wheezing for breath from being hit really hard or driven into the ground.

As for the last bold bit, I am in agreement.

[RevDisk]

I'm fine with TSA employees being armed. When they're not on the clock.

Anyone who is employed as a TSA screener ipso facto is not responsible enough to be given LEO authority or a firearm on duty. Off the clock, they're back to being Americans.

[Balog]

I'm fine with TSA employees being armed. When they're not on the clock.

Anyone who is employed as a TSA screener ipso facto is not responsible enough to be given LEO authority or a firearm on duty. Off the clock, they're back to being Americans.

I'd say they're Quislings 24/7, personally.

[brimic]

Just looked the NFL deal up and have a great big WTH?  Have these Miami mgt and NFL types ever actually played football?  Trash talk is as common as dirt.  The world's oldest trick to get in someone's head.  Been happening since the first cavemen tossed spears at each other across a contested stream.  Easiest way to stop it is to hand the talker his ass.  On field or off, whatever it takes.  Hard to trash talk when wheezing for breath from being hit really hard or driven into the ground.

As for the last bold bit, I am in agreement.

The NFL has turned into a group of men prancing around
In pink uniforms. Nuff said.

[Tallpine]

The trouble with arming the TSA is that someone would take the gun away and use it against them 

[Bigjake]

I'd say they're Quislings 24/7, personally.

I'd agree. 

And I recon it'll go badly for them when the general public figures that out.

[RoadKingLarry]

I'd agree. 

And I recon it'll go badly for them when IF the general public figures that out.

FTFY
You're giving "the general public" way more credit than is due

[Devonai]

I'm with Fitz on this one, he and I had the same reaction.

I'm inundated with TSA scrutiny on a regular basis, both through forums such as this or on Reason.com (which is my favorite news source).  I am in agreement with much of those criticisms, though my own personal experience with the agency has been unremarkable.

One problem I have is that my best friend works for the TSA.  He started out as a screener, hated it, and moved to something else as fast as possible.  First he was in logistics, now he's an intelligence analyst at one of those (supposedly notorious) fusion centers.  His involvement there is pretty straightforward (he writes state-wide LE BOLOs).  He was hired as a liaison to the TSA, but they want to remove that component from his position and make it direct from DHS.  So his career with the TSA might soon be over.

The reason I bring this up is because he's a libertarian like me, and has always been conflicted about working for them.  When he took the job back in 2007 he had been out of work for almost a year, and would have faced further financial difficulties had he not been hired.  He was about as innocuous of a screener as you can be; polite, respectful, and wary of overstepping his bounds.  And like I said, he GTFO asap.

I would hesitate to paint TSA employees with such a broad brush, though I am in full agreement that the entire agency needs to be dissolved.  Hopefully those employees effected would have a chance to be rehired by private organizations.

[roo_ster]

One of the reasons I joined the Army (rather than FBI, local LEO, or other such agencies) was to minimize risk that I would abuse American citizens.  That desire (not to abuse American citizens) cost me time, money, and opportunity when put into practice. 

My sympathy for those who take jobs such as TSA kiddie-fondler thus tends to be limited.  If such a principle were really important to them, they would not do such things.  I tend to be relatively direct on many matters: What folk say is of lesser importance relative to what they do.  If they are doing (or have in the past have done) that job, I really know all I need to know; no further comment, dismissal, or disavowal is necessary.

[RevDisk]

One of the reasons I joined the Army (rather than FBI, local LEO, or other such agencies) was to minimize risk that I would abuse American citizens.  That desire (not to abuse American citizens) cost me time, money, and opportunity when put into practice. 

My sympathy for those who take jobs such as TSA kiddie-fondler thus tends to be limited.  If such a principle were really important to them, they would not do such things.  I tend to be relatively direct on many matters: What folk say is of lesser importance relative to what they do.  If they are doing (or have in the past have done) that job, I really know all I need to know; no further comment, dismissal, or disavowal is necessary.

This. My sympathy is limited. And also based on personal interaction with the TSA.

The only good part is working at the TSA is a death sentence for a LEO career. I've heard of one or two folks that treated it like a pedophile conviction, and hid it anyway they could.