honor, dignitiy, and philosophy are one thing; discipline and mutual respect are another. without those, there is no way to train safely.
blackburn, it's really hard to read from your posts who you really are, what you're really after. i can see two possibilities:
a: you're a disrespectful jerk who just wants to fight.
b: you're interested in learning, but simply want something effective, and are skeptical about some of what you see.
if a, i'm done here. if b, then you need to visit schools in your area, ask to observe a class, talk to the instructors about what they teach, why they teach it, and why they teach it the way they do, and then make a decision.
from what you've said, i would suggest boxing and judo schools first.
personally, i study a traditional form of karate, and (along with most of my dojo), brazilian jiujitsu. on the face of it, they're completely different, but the formalities still in bjj are there for a reason: if you don't respect your instructor and he doesn't respect you, you cannot trust each other to be safe; without discipline, you waste half the class and people end up hurt.
the difference between a rear naked choke and attempted murder is intent, and you can't trust someone to stop when you tap if you don't respect them, and know that they respect you.
my karate instructor has a saying: all egos must be checked at the door. without that, it's not worth dressing out.
all this applies to firearms, too - i will not remain on the range if i think the people next to me aren't disciplined enough to follow the safety rules. if they can't show me the respect of keeping their deadly weapons pointed down range, i'm getting the hell out of there.
