Author Topic: An upstanding young man who was just on his way to Bible study...  (Read 1381 times)

MillCreek

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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

dogmush

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Re: An upstanding young man who was just on his way to Bible study...
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2019, 10:43:49 AM »
From the article:

Quote
The former U.S. Army sharpshooter experienced post-traumatic stress disorder after serving in Iraq, his family said. Peoples' attorney, Chuck Smith, said Friday that the crash was in no way deliberate.

Smith said after the hearing that they do not dispute what happened, but that his client's mental state is the issue.

"He served our country, honorably and admirably, and he's led an otherwise blameless life," Smith said, "So there's no explanation for this other than his service, the things he saw and what happened to him mentally while serving our country."

Let me provide some context as this guy's service records have already been run down in some vet/.mil FB groups.

"US Army  Sharpshooter" is not a job or title. He was a enlisted member in a Civil Affairs (i.e. not combat) unit in Iraq before the surge. He qualified "sharpshooter " with an M4, that is he qualified middle tier with his personal weapon before a deployment that saw no combat. No one can find any evidence of a Combat Action Badge, or anything that would denote combat.

He claimed PTSD several years after leaving the Army, and was apparently on meds for it, what exactly supposedly traumatized him remains unclear.

His lawyer is grasping at the "vet w/ PTSD" title to try and sway the narrative.

On a personal note, I grow VERY weary of the whole "all vets come home damaged from the *expletive deleted*it they've seen" schtick. Some of my brothers and sisters are indeed haunted by their wars, but the vast majority of us deal just fine, and even thrive after the .mil.  The public perception of "damaged vet on the edge of losing it" needs to be killed with fire.

I'll bet now that as folks that knew this guy during his service are found and interviewed we find out that he was a crazy guy that joined the Army, rather than a sane guy the Army drove crazy.

Hawkmoon

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Re: An upstanding young man who was just on his way to Bible study...
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2019, 12:42:13 PM »
Quote
The former U.S. Army sharpshooter experienced post-traumatic stress disorder after serving in Iraq, his family said. Peoples' attorney, Chuck Smith, said Friday that the crash was in no way deliberate.

Smith said after the hearing that they do not dispute what happened, but that his client's mental state is the issue.

...

Peoples was on his way to a Bible class Tuesday in the Silicon Valley suburb of Sunnyvale when he told investigators he intentionally drove into a group of men, women and children, police said. The 13-year-old girl was hit along with her father and brother, who had minor injuries.

Does ... not ... compute.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: An upstanding young man who was just on his way to Bible study...
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2019, 10:39:47 PM »
Quote
On a personal note, I grow VERY weary of the whole "all vets come home damaged from the *expletive deleted*it they've seen" schtick. Some of my brothers and sisters are indeed haunted by their wars, but the vast majority of us deal just fine, and even thrive after the .mil.  The public perception of "damaged vet on the edge of losing it" needs to be killed with fire.

It's deliberate with a specific goal; Get all vets declared mentally unfit to purchase/own firearms.
Baby steps, these things take time to take root in the collective consciousness.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

230RN

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Re: An upstanding young man who was just on his way to Bible study...
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2019, 11:23:26 PM »
Does ... not ... compute.

Ditto.

It's deliberate with a specific goal; Get all vets declared mentally unfit to purchase/own firearms.
Baby steps, these things take time to take root in the collective consciousness.

Double dog down ditto.

Too many of "us" cannot see the many aspects of the propaganda war.

And it started long before every bangstick became an "assault weapon."

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WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

Ron

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Re: An upstanding young man who was just on his way to Bible study...
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2019, 09:04:02 AM »
Obviously Christians and Veterans are the big problem in society today.
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Hawkmoon

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Re: An upstanding young man who was just on his way to Bible study...
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2019, 01:15:12 PM »
Obviously CONSERVATIVE Christians and Veterans are the big problem in society today.

FIFY.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: An upstanding young man who was just on his way to Bible study...
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2019, 01:21:39 PM »
It's deliberate with a specific goal; Get all vets declared mentally unfit to purchase/own firearms.
Baby steps, these things take time to take root in the collective consciousness.

To this: I've learned recently that Trump has apparently stopped the Social Security Administration from automatically reporting to NICS anyone who assigns a designated payee to handle their Social Security benefits. But the VA was reporting veterans for the same thing, but that wasn't pursuant to any federal law so Trump's action applied only to the SSA. Does anyone know whether or not the VA is still reporting veterans to NICS if they establish a designated payee for their pension or disability checks?

I just had my six-month checkup at the VA. As usual, during the intake portion of the exam (when the nurse or PA was taking vital signs), more of the time was occupied by answering questions designed to flag me as a suicide risk than was devoted to actually taking and recording me vital signs. In fact, I had the impression that there were a lot more of those questions this time than in previous appointments. The problem is that, as a Second Amendment supporter, my view is that I would have to be REALLY crazy to admit to any of the things the VA regards as flags for suicide, because they would report me to NICS in a heartbeat.

Here's an example: Since February, I have been participating in a voluntary study on using various techniques to control chronic pain. I'm nearing the end of my study period, and I just received my follow-up questionnaire in the mail. Of course, they weren't supposed to mail it to me, it's supposed to be administered in person. Since they mailed it to me, I can see the notes to the administrator.

On one page there are nine questions about mood. Each has four possible answers: "Not at all," "Several Days," "More than Half the Days," or "Nearly Every day." The questions ask about things like "Little interest or pleasure in doing things," "Feeling tired or having little energy," "Poor appetite or overeating," ...

In the note to the administrator at the bottom, it says: "If respondent indicates ANY answer besides "Not at All" for question (i), see SUICIDE IDEATION PROTOCOL IMMEDIATELY.

Question (i) is: "Thoughts that you would be better off dead or of hurting yourself in some way?"

The VA absolutely has a problem with veterans committing suicide. I get it. I understand why they want to screen for potential suicides. The problem is, their screening casts such a wide net that if the consequence is a life-long prohibition on possessing (or even touching) firearms, a veteran would have to be certifiably insane to admit to it.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 01:38:07 PM by Hawkmoon »
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230RN

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Re: An upstanding young man who was just on his way to Bible study...
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2019, 09:28:25 AM »
Holy cow, that is casting a wide net. "Poor appetite or overeating" seems to be a bit of a trap ("loaded question"), and answering "not at all" to every question would seem to make a bump on the lying scale.

Does anyone know if similar deep probing occurs with private (civilian) health care providers?  As I mentioned somewhere else, it's hard to answer "no" to firearms questions when it's part of official records that you have a carry permit.  Would that trigger deeper questioning in a private entity situation?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 09:42:16 AM by 230RN »
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

MillCreek

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Re: An upstanding young man who was just on his way to Bible study...
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2019, 11:57:29 AM »
^^^I can tell you that the various governmental and private insurance payors are very gung ho these days about asking primary care patients about suicide.  We have to check the little box on the electronic medical record saying that we did do such screening. The PHQ-2 and PHQ-9 screening questionnaires are the most commonly used.
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MillCreek
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

MechAg94

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Re: An upstanding young man who was just on his way to Bible study...
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2019, 09:14:25 AM »
Wonder what the meds were and how much they had to do with it.
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lee n. field

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Re: An upstanding young man who was just on his way to Bible study...
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2019, 09:29:49 AM »
Does anyone know if similar deep probing occurs with private (civilian) health care providers?  As I mentioned somewhere else, it's hard to answer "no" to firearms questions when it's part of official records that you have a carry permit.  Would that trigger deeper questioning in a private entity situation?

Depends, I guess.   I remember mentioning depression to one primary care dr. (early 2000s, IIRC), and he immediately launches into a bunch of rote questions to assess my inclination to suicide.  "Nope, nope, nope."   In the end, I let it drop, as I judged that little help would come from that quarter.  

More recently, while on Lupron I did have the oncologist nurse ask (usually) at quarterly appointments about mood and sometimes "suicidal ideation".  Well she did, because that's one of the many nasty side effects of that drug.

Of course, I'm pretty wary about bringing that up with anyone.
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cordex

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Re: An upstanding young man who was just on his way to Bible study...
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2019, 09:32:39 AM »
Wonder what the meds were and how much they had to do with it.
Meds or no, previous service or no, PTSD or no, regardless of claimed destination, all religious affiliations aside, the guy admits to intentionally and maliciously running down a group of people - including kids - with a car.  He bears the full responsibility of those actions and I hope his sentencing reflects that.

Hawkmoon

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Re: An upstanding young man who was just on his way to Bible study...
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2019, 12:18:26 PM »

More recently, while on Lupron I did have the oncologist nurse ask (usually) at quarterly appointments about mood and sometimes "suicidal ideation".  Well she did, because that's one of the many nasty side effects of that drug.


And in an appointment a few months ago with a dermatologist at the VA hospital, the dermatologist doc prescribed Doxepin for me, to "control itching" (itching was not why I was there). After the appointment, I went to the on-site pharmacy, picked up the prescription, and went home. Because I'm "that guy," I then did the unthinkable and read the pages of literature that came with the prescription. There was no discussion of using Doxepin to treat dermatological itching; it's an anti-depressant. Sure enough, buried in the discussion of possible side effects was "May cause thoughts of suicide. If you have such thoughts, be sure to discuss them with your doctor."

Well, fine. The literature says that the prescribing doctor is supposed to inform the patient about potentially dangerous side effects. The VA puts the burden on the patient to find out about the side effects on their own, and then it's generally difficult to impossible to get back in to see the doctor. Especially with the dermatology department -- the head of that department told me that, in this part of the country, there aren't enough dermatology doctors to go around. The docs at the VA are over-booked, and so are the dermatologists outside of the VA.

So here's the VA Healthcare System, which knows it has a problem with veterans committing suicide, prescribing a medication that has suicidal thoughts as a potential side effect with no warning to the patient. I wrote a letter to the doctor and physically dropped it off at the dermatology clinic to complain. I will say that the doctor called and left me a fairly lengthy message on my answering machine. That answer was, however, unsatisfactory IMHO. Basically she said that they routinely use it for dermatology even though it's intended as an anti-depressant, and the dose is "so small" that they don't consider the risk of suicidal thoughts to be "significant."

That's not what it says in the literature. There's nothing about a low dose that may be safe from possibly generating suicidal thoughts. IMHO the medical profession has a problem. Doctors are being pressed to generate more income, meaning they have to spend less and less time with each patient so they can churn more appointments through the office. They're prescribing lots of drugs that can cause suicidal ideation, and they don't have the time to sit down and discuss that with each patient when they prescribe it. I see that as a very real issue.
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MechAg94

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Re: An upstanding young man who was just on his way to Bible study...
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2019, 04:11:34 PM »
Meds or no, previous service or no, PTSD or no, regardless of claimed destination, all religious affiliations aside, the guy admits to intentionally and maliciously running down a group of people - including kids - with a car.  He bears the full responsibility of those actions and I hope his sentencing reflects that.
I wasn't trying to absolve him of guilt.  Just wondering what sort of psychoactive drugs he was on and how they might have affected his judgement.  That is something that never seems to be considered with these mass shootings even though I hear occasionally that many of them are or have been on them.  I wonder if the drugs played a role.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge