Author Topic: particleboard subfloors? (Read 10574 times)

41magsnub · « **Reply #25 on:** March 22, 2011, 03:28:21 PM »

Quote from: Headless Thompson Gunner on March 22, 2011, 03:03:48 PM

Does this make for a sound subfloor?

It is an inch and a half of material. Tongue and groove plywood with particleboard on top.

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #26 on:** March 22, 2011, 04:19:32 PM »

the 2 inch drain is in the shower its a home run to house main the old 1 1/2 i rerouted to catch the spillage on the shower apron. gace up the tub in that bathroom though. its cool got clawfoot soaker downstairs

the handheld shower is mounted kid high so toddlers can take showers. i toyed with second kid scale toilet but passed on that

zahc · « **Reply #27 on:** March 22, 2011, 06:54:05 PM »

Well I lied, it's not going to be a bathroom but a darkroom. It shouldn't be subject to regular water spills; I'm mostly removing the carpet for dust reasons. That said accidents do happen and there will be a sink in there. There has been a leak in one corner across from the outside deck, so I at least need to cut that section of particleboard out and replace it, then I'm thinking I'll put down 1/2" plywood and then sticky tile that. Should I put any kind of moisture barrier between the particle board and the plywood?

CNYCacher · « **Reply #28 on:** March 22, 2011, 07:13:20 PM »

Vinyl tiles are the suxors because they allow water penetration. You can get impermeable vinyl flooring on a sheet for pretty cheap.

My laundry room was vinyl tiles over luan, over actual canvas-backed linoleum over 1.5" of subfloor. This is what it looked like coming out:

Nasty nasty mold. Water went through the tile, soaked the luan and then could not penetrate the linoleum.

Vinyl tile over particle board will give you even worse results, as particle board tends to swell and disintegrate when it gets wet. Get rolled vinyl on a sheet.

sanglant · « **Reply #29 on:** March 22, 2011, 07:52:01 PM »

and what would concrete sealant do to particleboard?

zahc · « **Reply #30 on:** March 22, 2011, 10:32:31 PM »

I think I found some sheet vinyl at Lowes that I like that is priced just as cheap as the tiles. So, whether I go with tile or sheet vinyl, I have to put something down because nothing sticks to particleboard. I'm figuring regular old BC plywood, 3/8 or 1/2, would do the trick, but what about that cement board stuff?

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #31 on:** March 22, 2011, 10:41:38 PM »

cement board would be too rough under vinyl the roughness will show through

CNYCacher · « **Reply #32 on:** March 22, 2011, 10:56:14 PM »

Quote from: zahc on March 22, 2011, 10:32:31 PM

I think I found some sheet vinyl at Lowes that I like that is priced just as cheap as the tiles. So, whether I go with tile or sheet vinyl, I have to put something down because nothing sticks to particleboard. I'm figuring regular old BC plywood, 3/8 or 1/2, would do the trick, but what about that cement board stuff?

The sheet vinyl is meant to float. There is a double-sided tape to use at doorways and seams (if you have a room that more than 12' both ways), but it does not need to be, nor should it be, glued down in general.

I have it in three rooms and it's going in a fourth (the project pictured above).

Headless Thompson Gunner · « **Reply #33 on:** March 23, 2011, 03:25:58 PM »

Quote from: 41magsnub on March 22, 2011, 03:28:21 PM

It is an inch and a half of material. Tongue and groove plywood with particleboard on top.

Aye, 3/4" of plywood plus 3/4" particle board equals 1 1/2" of total material. I get that.

What I don't understand is whether this is sufficient to make a strong, sound subfloor.

The particle board I'm dealing with crumbles easily in the hand, so I don't understand how it can provide any strength. Seems like I may as well not have any particle board in there at all, for all the good it does.

Why do builders use particle board? If you need 1 1/2" of material, why not use two layers of 3/4" plywood?

Tallpine · « **Reply #34 on:** March 23, 2011, 03:36:03 PM »

Quote

If you need 1 1/2" of material, why not use two layers of 3/4"?

Well, it costs more and the plywood isn't as smooth - at least initially.

Headless Thompson Gunner · « **Reply #35 on:** March 23, 2011, 03:38:31 PM »

Ok, so two layers of plywood would be more expensive.

But then, why not just use a single layer of the 3/4" plywood? What's the particle board there for? Is it just to raise the total thickness up to 1 1/2", even though that doesn't seem to make the floor any stronger?

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #36 on:** March 23, 2011, 03:42:50 PM »

it makes it stronger its part of a sandwich effect the p board is smoother

Harold Tuttle · « **Reply #37 on:** March 23, 2011, 04:59:10 PM »

you stagger the sheets so the lower joints are well overlapped by the top layer

41magsnub · « **Reply #38 on:** March 23, 2011, 05:23:27 PM »

I don't know that it makes it much stronger. Clearly particle board should not be used as the subfloor, just the underlayment. The main justifications are it is cheap and it evens out the floor because it is so stable (until it gets wet) and it is so smooth.

I'm not sure I would use it if I were building my own house. My house built in 2003 uses the plywood/particle board set up.

sanglant · « **Reply #39 on:** March 23, 2011, 08:48:00 PM »

just something to think about. which is stronger, a 1Â½ inch sheet of MDF, or 2 layers of Â¾ inch MDF glued together?

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #40 on:** March 23, 2011, 09:23:42 PM »

i'll bite no engineer but i'll say the 2 sheets glued and screwed

CNYCacher · « **Reply #41 on:** March 23, 2011, 09:36:54 PM »

Quote from: sanglant on March 23, 2011, 08:48:00 PM

just something to think about. which is stronger, a 1Â½ inch sheet of MDF, or 2 layers of Â¾ inch MDF glued together?

Since dried glue is probably a tougher material than MDF, I'll say the latter.

Boomhauer · « **Reply #42 on:** March 23, 2011, 10:12:17 PM »

My personal rule is to avoid the use of particle board at all costs.

zahc · « **Reply #43 on:** March 23, 2011, 11:26:35 PM »

Quote

The sheet vinyl is meant to float. There is a double-sided tape to use at doorways and seams (if you have a room that more than 12' both ways), but it does not need to be, nor should it be, glued down in general.

What are the tubs of vinyl cement sitting text to the sheet vinyl in Lowes for then? I think you have vinyl sheet confused with floating floor (which isn't glued down but just sits on a special foam sheet).

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #44 on:** March 23, 2011, 11:31:03 PM »

yup some guys do float the centers of the glue down stuff though. i can do vinyl but not well or fast enough

Hawkmoon · « **Reply #45 on:** March 24, 2011, 12:20:14 AM »

Quote from: sanglant on March 23, 2011, 08:48:00 PM

just something to think about. which is stronger, a 1Â½ inch sheet of MDF, or 2 layers of Â¾ inch MDF glued together?

Basically, 1-1/2" MDF is two sheets of 3/4" MDF glued together at the factory. Unless you think your field gluing can equal or exceed the uniformity and bonding of factory gluing, the 1-1/2" from the factory is stronger.

sanglant · « **Reply #46 on:** March 24, 2011, 12:41:49 AM »

if i'm remembering right. the extra layers of backing/surfacing, and it tends to work as two layers pulling/pushing at each other.

can't find the pages with the numbers. but i read them in '99 or '98, can't really say i expected to.

Harold Tuttle · « **Reply #47 on:** March 24, 2011, 08:58:26 AM »

two layers staggered is stronger as it wont flex at the joist gaps

cassandra and sara's daddy · « **Reply #48 on:** March 24, 2011, 11:01:48 AM »

and if you screw through both layers to hit joists you get the tension compression strength too

CNYCacher · « **Reply #49 on:** March 24, 2011, 03:38:17 PM »

Quote from: zahc on March 23, 2011, 11:26:35 PM

What are the tubs of vinyl cement sitting text to the sheet vinyl in Lowes for then? I think you have vinyl sheet confused with floating floor (which isn't glued down but just sits on a special foam sheet).

The vinyl I got at Home Depot had a foam backing built into it, and was around $0.90/sqft and was meant to float. Now that you mention it though, I do believe there were cheaper vinyl sheets available with no backing that was meant to be glued.

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Author Topic: particleboard subfloors? (Read 10574 times)