Tucson wants to split away from AZ

[AZRedhawk44]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/liberals-southern-arizona-seek-form-state-130257516.html

There's a similar movement in southern Oregon to form the State of "Jefferson."  Lots of rabble-rousing in Northern California about breaking away, too.  And eastern Washington. 

I say, have at it.  Don't let the door hit your *expletive deleted*ss on the way out, Tucson.  Have fun paying for the U of A with your own tax dollars from your sanctuary city migrant hell-hole.  Heck, go be part of Mexico if you'd like.  By doing so, you'll set the precedent for the conservative/libertarian front to gain 6 senators from Jefferson, East Washington and NorCal.  And probably shift the House more in our favor.

[dogmush]

The ultimate goal of the newly formed political action committee Start our State is to split Pima County off into what would become the nation's 51st state, tentatively dubbed Baja Arizona.

Umm.... I'm a little shaky on this but wouldn't they have to apply for statehood once they secedded from AZ?  I seem to recall some sort of process for becoming a state written down somewhere.

[Perd Hapley]

We all know this is just talk, right?

[lee n. field]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/liberals-southern-arizona-seek-form-state-130257516.html

There's a similar movement in southern Oregon to form the State of "Jefferson."  Lots of rabble-rousing in Northern California about breaking away, too.  And eastern Washington. 

Put it to a vote downstate, I bet we could kick Chicago out of Illinois.

[MechAg94]

Would this simply be the state of Aztlan or something?

[MicroBalrog]

West Virginia is the legal precedent here?

[longeyes]

Yes, it's just talk, but serious matters often begin with "just talk.  In a year or two the break-away phenomenon won't look so bizarre.  Those who believe that through "unity" we are going to save what's left of the Founders' vision are naive.  It will be clear soon enough that cooperation and co-existence with the Left are not practical and viable options for the future.  See how far we get with serious budget reforms with the current cultural dynamic.

[Jocassee]

Yes, it's just talk, but serious matters often begin with "just talk.  In a year or two the break-away phenomenon won't look so bizarre.  Those who believe that through "unity" we are going to save what's left of the Founders' vision are naive.  It will be clear soon enough that cooperation and co-existence with the Left are not practical and viable options for the future.  See how far we get with serious budget reforms with the current cultural dynamic.

+ 100

Liberals today, conservatives in 2-5 years (and obviously for different reasons).

[Angel Eyes]

Liberals today, conservatives in 2-5 years (and obviously for different reasons).

Or sooner.  The "state of Jefferson" movement in northern California and southern Oregon is largely conservative/libertarian driven.  So far, it's not a serious attempt at forming a separate state as much as an expression of contempt for the status quo in Sacramento and Salem.

[Boomhauer]

conservatives in 2-5 years (and obviously for different reasons)

What we conservatives/libertarians/other freedom loving people need to be asking ourselves is how exactly are we being represented when politicians in Washington (who haven't left since they were elected to office) and the major cities in our states dictate how we should live our lives? How are we being represented when we're screaming "NO!" on horrible legislation and our cries are promptly ignored?

Way I see it, we're being taxed without representation and legislated without representation. And I, for one, don't like it one damn bit, being made second class citizens and having our rights stripped away wholesale while our "benefactors" tell us how good it is for us.

[Perd Hapley]

Yes, it's just talk, but serious matters often begin with "just talk.  In a year or two the break-away phenomenon won't look so bizarre.  Those who believe that through "unity" we are going to save what's left of the Founders' vision are naive.  It will be clear soon enough that cooperation and co-existence with the Left are not practical and viable options for the future.  See how far we get with serious budget reforms with the current cultural dynamic.

Right, it's just talk.

The lefties aren't going to leave us. They couldn't run their own state if they tried. In the backs of their minds, they know that. Besides, they crave power over others. Secession doesn't accomplish that.

[Jamisjockey]

We all know this is just talk, right?

No no no. Remember, Alec Baldwin and Micheal Moore really left the States when Bush got reelected......oh.....

[MicroBalrog]

They couldn't run their own state if they tried.

Why couldn't they?

[kgbsquirrel]

Why couldn't they?

Well, they could, but I think the point he was presenting is that any state they try to run, and with their policies, would cause the Soviet Union to look down right Methuselan.

[longeyes]

Right, it's just talk.

The lefties aren't going to leave us. They couldn't run their own state if they tried. In the backs of their minds, they know that. Besides, they crave power over others. Secession doesn't accomplish that.

Talk to liberals--I have--about secession.  They look aghast.  They can't imagine our wanting to go our own way.  That's not because they don't wish we "off in the cornfield," it's because they know the ugly truth: THEY NEED OUR MONEY.  Besides, every lib I know loves the idea that they might be able to get us where they want us, dependent on them.

[Perd Hapley]

Talk to liberals--I have--about secession.  They look aghast.  They can't imagine our wanting to go our own way.  That's not because they don't wish we "off in the cornfield," it's because they know the ugly truth: THEY NEED OUR MONEY.  Besides, every lib I know loves the idea that they might be able to get us where they want us, dependent on them.

Also, the left has raised the stakes pretty high, in their tiny little minds. If they didn't control us, we would ruin the planet. We would oppress wimmins and minorities. We would start endless wars on false pretenses. We would drink black coffee (and not even fair trade coffee) in restaurants where there might also be smoking. They can't let that happen.

[MicroBalrog]

Well, they could, but I think the point he was presenting is that any state they try to run, and with their policies, would cause the Soviet Union to look down right Methuselan.

Aren't there plenty of EU countries run by these people?

[AZRedhawk44]

Aren't there plenty of EU countries run by these people?

The EU is hardly a shining beacon of libtard success.

1. Invent a currency out of thin air (and angsty spite towards the US dollar)
2. Fail to create a meaningful economy
3. Bail out countries that fail to control government budgets
4.
5. Profit.

[MillCreek]

The local Seattle media periodically does stories on the issue of eastern Washington splitting off pretty much right along the Cascades.  What has seemed to dampen enthusiasm for this was a cost/revenue analysis showing that the greater population in western Washington subsidizes eastern Washington pretty good from the standpoint of government services and infrastructure.  As an example, on a proportionate basis, more of my gas taxes go to pay for road work in eastern Washington than here.  Some of the sales tax collected in Snohomish county goes to fund government programs in eastern Washington.  If eastern Washington split off, western Washington would actually save money.  It is kind of like how West Germany had to increase taxes and spending to bring East Germany up to par when they reunified. 

This has caused some of the Rugged Individualists in eastern Washington no little gnashing of teeth to realize that their roads, counties and rural way of life is in part subsidized by tree-hugging hipsters in Seattle driving Priuses and buying MacBooks.

I think I recall reading that the same sort of argument can be made about many of the rural Western states: that they incur more Federal dollars of benefit than they pay Federal taxes. 

[MicroBalrog]

The EU is hardly a shining beacon of libtard success.

1. Invent a currency out of thin air (and angsty spite towards the US dollar)
2. Fail to create a meaningful economy
3. Bail out countries that fail to control government budgets
4.
5. Profit.

It's proved several things.

It's not a beacon of success in our terms, but in their terms, it proved:

1. You can run a state, indeed an entire continent, on leftist policies for decades on end.
2. While doing that, you can maintain a decent standard of living.

Now, it's not ACTUALLY proof of success, but it's not OH GOD COMPLETE FAILURE either, in the way Zimbabwe or Mexico are.

[kgbsquirrel]

For proof of success, ask this simple question: Can these policies be sustained indefinitely?

Yes they did work, in the very short term and only because there was a resource surplus from prior economic policy and available labor. Now they're running out of other people's money and labor to spend in order to sustain a system the inherently operates at a loss. A set of policies whose guaranteed final conclusion is bankruptcy and collapse is not a viable governing system.

[MicroBalrog]

That isn't relevant here.

Whether I agree with you or not, people don't make political decisions based on what is true objectively. People make political decisions based on what they believe is true.

You might think Europe's society is a bad idea to emulate, but the truth is that it has not failed so grotesquely as to make European welfare states intellectually untenable. Perhaps it will, but right now, it provides leftoids reason to believe they could pull the same thing off if they only had free reign.

[Perd Hapley]

Aren't there plenty of EU countries run by these people?

Not terribly relevant. The nations of Europe were not formed by leftists seceding from larger nations. Also, it's not just a question of policy, but of people.  Left-wing zealots are not the sort of people that know how to keep the trains running, so to speak.

[MicroBalrog]

Not terribly relevant. The nations of Europe were not formed by leftists seceding from larger nations. Also, it's not just a question of policy, but of people.  Left-wing zealots are not the sort of people that know how to keep the trains running, so to speak.

That is not the point. The point is that the people backing this secession idea believe it will work. Thus they will push for it.

And as for left-wing zealots and trains...

[Perd Hapley]

Micro, I made the point, so I can tell you what it is. I just did. Your comparison is inapplicable, for the reasons I stated, so it matters not how many trains run.

Whether the "secessionists" really want to live in a looters-only state is not provable, and we disagree, so that's that.