Author Topic: Gun terminology fight! (Read 1308 times)

Perd Hapley · « **on:** February 28, 2019, 05:17:06 PM »

Does anyone know who decided that revolvers and pistols are two separate classes of the phylum handgun? Or can anyone tell me when, or why this came to be?

Also, if I don't believe in said distinction, can I still feel superior to gun noobs? I know about magazines vs clips! That makes me cool, right? Right?

Angel Eyes · « **Reply #1 on:** February 28, 2019, 05:19:15 PM »

My understanding is:

pistol = barrel and chamber are one integral part.

Revolver = multiple chambers in a cylinder, separate from barrel.

I have a sense that you're going to feel superior, no matter what.

RoadKingLarry · « **Reply #2 on:** February 28, 2019, 06:20:44 PM »

Quote from: Angel Eyes on February 28, 2019, 05:19:15 PM

My understanding is:

pistol = barrel and chamber are one integral part.

Revolver = multiple chambers in a cylinder, separate from barrel.

I have a sense that you're going to feel superior, no matter what.

And, as usual, there is a big difference between "feeling" and being.

Brad Johnson · « **Reply #3 on:** February 28, 2019, 06:40:50 PM »

Seeing as "pistol" has its origins as a descriptor for handguns in general, I use handgun and pistol interchangeably even though current parlance seems to differ. If pressed I will use the more specific (and technically correct) revolver or semi-auto modifiers. Seems to get the point across well enough.

Brad

K Frame · « **Reply #4 on:** February 28, 2019, 07:26:24 PM »

There were similar terms used (pistala and pistole) in Europe in the mid 1500s to describe a gun fired with the hand.

That was the standard term until the mid 1800s when the pepperbox and, around the same time, the first Colt revolvers were introduced. Both were often advertised as revolving pistols.

This advertisement for the Colt Single Action Army, from around 1873-1875, illustrates that: http://www.icollector.com/Original-Colt-broadside-paper-advertisement-for-the-Colt-SAA-revolver-and_i23720784

Colt also referred to them as repeating pistols in ads for the earlier cap and ball revolvers.

Not exactly sure when they started to be called revolvers, but Smith & Wesson was using the term revolver in the 1880s.

Around the introduction of semi-automatics, the terms automatic and automatic pistol were in common use.

It seems that very slowly, and likely driven by such advertisements, revolver became the common term for the wheel gun and pistol sort of morphed over to mean a semi-auto repeater.

No one ever really decided it, it just happened.

Hawkmoon · « **Reply #5 on:** February 28, 2019, 08:15:33 PM »

Quote from: fistful on February 28, 2019, 05:17:06 PM

Does anyone know who decided that revolvers and pistols are two separate classes of the phylum handgun? Or can anyone tell me when, or why this came to be?

Also, if I don't believe in said distinction, can I still feel superior to gun noobs? I know about magazines vs clips! That makes me cool, right? Right?

It's a recent distinction that seems to be important to people who have a need to feel important because they "know" something that other people don't know (even if what they "know" is wrong). Basically, a handgun is a pistol, and a pistol is a handgun. There are single shot, flintlock or percussion cap dueling pistols, there are revolving pistols, and there are semi-automatic pistols. Revolvers are a subset of pistols.

Sam Colt's patent was for a "revolving cylinder pistol." http://armspost.com/samuel-colt-revolver-design/

BlueStarLizzard · « **Reply #6 on:** February 28, 2019, 08:33:47 PM »

*shrug* I was taught "handgun" for anything not a long gun. "Pistol" equaled semi auto unless you're talking antiques and "revolver" was a revolver.

I don't have any reason not to believe Mike's explanation for why. Language evolves to meet the needs and, when talking about modern guns, the above seems to be how we do things.

Since that is the way things are, what you believe in doesn't really matter. And no, you are not cool.

brimic · « **Reply #7 on:** February 28, 2019, 10:20:06 PM »

Depends on whether you put a clip full of bullets in it or not....

Perd Hapley · « **Reply #8 on:** February 28, 2019, 11:13:07 PM »

Quote from: bluestarlizzard on February 28, 2019, 08:33:47 PM

I don't have any reason not to believe Mike's explanation for why. Language evolves to meet the needs and, when talking about modern guns, the above seems to be how we do things.

Since that is the way things are, what you believe in doesn't really matter. And no, you are not cool.

Mike traced an outline of what happened, but he didn't give an explanation of why people started to think "pistol" excludes revolvers. Like he said, it just happened. After all, when we say "long rifle" these days, most of the time, we're talking about the .22 cartridge. That hasn't caused people to think that "long rifle" only means a .22. Gun guys still know that a gun that's a "long rifle" is a black-powder muzzle-loader.

And, actually, the definition of pistol isn't settled yet. That's why gun guys keep teaching the alleged distinction to gun noobs. It's like magazine vs. clip, except that we can't explain to gun noobs why a revolver can't be a pistol anymore. That would be like explaining what an assault weapon is. There's no there there.

just Warren · « **Reply #9 on:** March 01, 2019, 01:54:40 AM »

We should go back to calling them handgonnes.

K Frame · « **Reply #10 on:** March 01, 2019, 07:00:36 AM »

A revolver is a pistol.

A single-shot pistol is a pistol.

A semi-automatic is a pistol.

All three are handguns.

Of course, there are also a few complete and total outliers, like the Webley-Fosberry Automatic Revolver....

"but he didn't give an explanation of why people started to think "pistol" excludes revolvers."

Because people are dumb.

230RN · « **Reply #11 on:** March 01, 2019, 07:41:29 AM »

Lingo morphs.

grampster · « **Reply #12 on:** March 01, 2019, 07:54:46 AM »

Don't forget the "Assault Pistol Thingy That Goes Up"

MechAg94 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 01, 2019, 09:20:37 AM »

Quote from: Mike Irwin on March 01, 2019, 07:00:36 AM

A revolver is a pistol.

A single-shot pistol is a pistol.

A semi-automatic is a pistol.

All three are handguns.

Of course, there are also a few complete and total outliers, like the Webley-Fosberry Automatic Revolver....

"but he didn't give an explanation of why people started to think "pistol" excludes revolvers."

Because people are dumb.

Agreed. I don't recall ever hearing anyone say "pistol" excludes revolvers (or maybe I didn't care about it then either).

Ben · « **Reply #14 on:** March 01, 2019, 09:22:45 AM »

I've been reading some books on mid-19th century trappers and mountain men. A vast majority of the accounts refer to revolvers as pistols. I think I recall one description of the trapper's kit using the term "revolving pistol".

K Frame · « **Reply #15 on:** March 01, 2019, 09:27:22 AM »

"Agreed. I don't recall ever hearing anyone say "pistol" excludes revolvers (or maybe I didn't care about it then either)."

I have. Many, many, many times.

Brad Johnson · « **Reply #16 on:** March 01, 2019, 09:27:44 AM »

Quote from: 230RN on March 01, 2019, 07:41:29 AM

Lingo morphs.

Sounds like the name of a second-rate college band made up of Languages Department students.

Brad

Pb · « **Reply #17 on:** March 01, 2019, 09:37:17 AM »

Like others said, pistol is just a synonym for handgun. Excluding revolvers from the definition is a incorrect. Don't know how it got started.

AZRedhawk44 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 01, 2019, 10:53:45 AM »

Mike's understanding is the same as mine: "Pistols" encompasses all handguns. "Revolver" is a sub-genre of pistols that utilizes a rotating cylinder to hold ammunition and serve as the firing chamber. A 1911 is a pistol, a Redhawk is a pistol.

Perd Hapley · « **Reply #19 on:** March 01, 2019, 12:49:28 PM »

Quote from: Mike Irwin on March 01, 2019, 07:00:36 AM

Because people are dumb.

There is that.

230RN · « **Reply #20 on:** March 01, 2019, 01:49:43 PM »

Double Post

230RN · « **Reply #21 on:** March 01, 2019, 01:59:45 PM »

I've seen a couple of instances where autos are referred to as revolvers in old (English, GB) movies. I think either "revolver" is a generic term for guns there, or the script said "revolver," and all they had on hand was an auto and didn't realize there was a difference.

I believe I recall one where Sherlock Holmes asked Watson, "Do you have your revolver?" and later on, Watson showed a small auto.

Quote

Quote
Quote from: 230RN on Today at 05:41:29 AM

Lingo morphs.

Sounds like the name of a second-rate college band made up of Languages Department students.

Brad

I thought it was pretty euphonious.

Terry

Perd Hapley · « **Reply #22 on:** March 01, 2019, 03:24:15 PM »

Quote from: 230RN on March 01, 2019, 01:49:43 PM

I've seen a couple of instances where autos are referred to as revolvers in old (English, GB) movies. I think either "revolver" is a generic term for guns there, or the script said "revolver," and all they had on hand was an auto and didn't realize there was a difference.

I believe I recall one where Sherlock Holmes asked Watson, "Do you have your revolver?" and later on, Watson showed a small auto.

Reporters do that too, apparently believing "service revolver" means something like "sidearm."

There was a YouTuber that used the term "handpistol," or maybe "sidepistol"? I think it was Iraqveteran8888, or someone else on his show.

MechAg94 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 01, 2019, 03:26:13 PM »

Quote from: 230RN on March 01, 2019, 01:59:45 PM

Sounds like the name of a second-rate college band made up of Languages Department students.

Brad

I thought it was pretty euphonious.

Terry

I thought he was talking about the Sex Pistols until I saw what was quoted.

230RN · « **Reply #24 on:** March 01, 2019, 03:39:00 PM »

Yeah, if this is what you're referring to, APS got rid of quotes-within-quotes a while ago. Was getting to the where three or four quotes of quoted material got the line width down to two characters. Have to do it manually now.

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Author Topic: Gun terminology fight! (Read 1308 times)