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Author Topic: Progressiveism in action: the story of Detroit as told by street view  (Read 7120 times)

Balog

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Progressiveism in action: the story of Detroit as told by street view
« on: May 30, 2014, 01:58:46 PM »
http://goobingdetroit.tumblr.com/

Detroit is becoiming less of an example of liberal failure and more of a fascinating case study in what happens when an urban area returns to wilderness.
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dogmush

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Re: Progressiveism in action: the story of Detroit as told by street view
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2014, 02:13:02 PM »
damn

that's some impressive collapse.
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Re: Progressiveism in action: the story of Detroit as told by street view
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2014, 02:29:15 PM »
Given the number of them subject to foreclosure for back taxes, it seems like the city could make a fortune just bulldozing the ones that can't be repaired, replatting and rezoning the adjacent vacant lots into larger multifamily residential or industrial, and selling them off cheap.  The trick would be driving out the people that made them that way (a lot of that wasn't just unassisted decay, it was vandalism and/or just plain trashy people) so that good ones will come in to fill the residential and staff the industrial, then commercial values would pick up.
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dogmush

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Re: Progressiveism in action: the story of Detroit as told by street view
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2014, 02:36:49 PM »
What good folks would move to Detroit even if the lots were free?

What employment is available there for good folks?

Not snark, I can't think of anything that would convince me* to move to Detroit.  The kind of money that a company would have to offer me to work there would allow me to live elsewhere and commute in.


*Only slightly arrogant, I have two houses, have improved and added value to both of them since purchase, and even the one I rent out, I make sure it is maintained, clean and rented to folks that will at least not lower it's value.  I imagine I'm the kind of land owner cities would want to court.
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brimic

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Re: Progressiveism in action: the story of Detroit as told by street view
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2014, 02:52:36 PM »
Quote from: dogmush on May 30, 2014, 02:36:49 PM
What good folks would move to Detroit even if the lots were free?

What employment is available there for good folks?

Not snark, I can't think of anything that would convince me* to move to Detroit.  The kind of money that a company would have to offer me to work there would allow me to live elsewhere and commute in.


*Only slightly arrogant, I have two houses, have improved and added value to both of them since purchase, and even the one I rent out, I make sure it is maintained, clean and rented to folks that will at least not lower it's value.  I imagine I'm the kind of land owner cities would want to court.

Yes, especially since you are probably the type that makes your property tax payments....
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Re: Progressiveism in action: the story of Detroit as told by street view
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2014, 03:03:49 PM »
Quote from: dogmush on May 30, 2014, 02:36:49 PM
What good folks would move to Detroit even if the lots were free?
Several years ago I read about someone making an effort to "recruit" good folks to come to Detroit, with the enticement of "free" properties.

Now granted, many of these properties were "fixer uppers" even in cases where all the wiring and plumbing HADN'T been looted, but apparently the city's requirement for a great many permits, licenses, and mandatory building code upgrades in order to do ANY property rehab work was both daunting in extent and very expensive to accomplish, to the point where the "free" properties were actually rather pricey.
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Scout26

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Re: Progressiveism in action: the story of Detroit as told by street view
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2014, 03:52:11 PM »
Quote from: HankB on May 30, 2014, 03:03:49 PM
Several years ago I read about someone making an effort to "recruit" good folks to come to Detroit, with the enticement of "free" properties.

Now granted, many of these properties were "fixer uppers" even in cases where all the wiring and plumbing HADN'T been looted, but apparently the city's requirement for a great many permits, licenses, and mandatory building code upgrades in order to do ANY property rehab work was both daunting in extent and very expensive to accomplish, to the point where the "free" properties were actually rather pricey.

Sometimes the bureaucritters just don't learn.   

How about Bulldoze the lots, re-plat, and $25 building permit for everything to put up a house.  Land sold at marginal cost. 
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Balog

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Re: Progressiveism in action: the story of Detroit as told by street view
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2014, 04:05:12 PM »
If they ever manage to push slave reparations through I suggest we give everyone that rates them 40 acres of Detroit and a mule.
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Re: Progressiveism in action: the story of Detroit as told by street view
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2014, 04:08:51 PM »
Why even sell the land?  Urban Homesteading (not the hippy-dippy self-sufficient home gardening with chickens & goats crap) has worked - you get to file a claim on the land and after X continuous years of living there with a dwelling that was up to code when erected, and taxes paid each year, the title passes to you.

stay safe.
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Re: Progressiveism in action: the story of Detroit as told by street view
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2014, 04:43:30 PM »
Quote from: vaskidmark on May 30, 2014, 04:08:51 PM
Why even sell the land?  Urban Homesteading (not the hippy-dippy self-sufficient home gardening with chickens & goats crap) has worked - you get to file a claim on the land and after X continuous years of living there with a dwelling that was up to code when erected, and taxes paid each year, the title passes to you.

stay safe.

Taxes regime is brutal.

On a $100k house, it's $6,774 in taxes for your primary residence. $8,575 for rental, business or secondary residence.
Source: https://treas-secure.state.mi.us/ptestimator/PTEstimator.asp
Source: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/taxes/2013_Total_Rates_450527_7.pdf

Personal taxes are very high as well. 18th highest or 12th highest in the nation, for the least amount of services.
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Re: Progressiveism in action: the story of Detroit as told by street view
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2014, 04:44:22 PM »
I have read elsewhere of some proposals to bulldoze square blocks of decayed housing in Detroit and turn it into some sort of urban farmland.
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Re: Progressiveism in action: the story of Detroit as told by street view
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2014, 04:44:47 PM »
Quote from: RevDisk on May 30, 2014, 04:43:30 PM
Taxes regime is brutal.

On a $100k house, it's $6,774 in taxes for your primary residence. $8,575 for rental, business or secondary residence.
Source: https://treas-secure.state.mi.us/ptestimator/PTEstimator.asp
Source: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/taxes/2013_Total_Rates_450527_7.pdf

Personal taxes are very high as well. 18th highest or 12th highest in the nation, for the least amount of services.


HOLY CRAP!
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Scout26

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Re: Progressiveism in action: the story of Detroit as told by street view
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2014, 05:55:09 PM »
When the guy from Californistan says "HOLY CRAP" at your tax rates, there's a real problem.
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Re: Progressiveism in action: the story of Detroit as told by street view
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2014, 06:10:42 PM »
Instead of trying to attract people, it might just be better to bulldoze everything and let nature take it.
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Re: Progressiveism in action: the story of Detroit as told by street view
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2014, 06:14:58 PM »
Quote from: bedlamite on May 30, 2014, 06:10:42 PM
Instead of trying to attract people, it might just be better to bulldoze everything and let nature take it.

Maybe leave a more egregious section "standing" as a museum of object warning and call it Detroitus.
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Re: Progressiveism in action: the story of Detroit as told by street view
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2014, 06:35:26 PM »
This

Quote from: RevDisk on May 30, 2014, 04:43:30 PM
Taxes regime is brutal.

On a $100k house, it's $6,774 in taxes for your primary residence. $8,575 for rental, business or secondary residence.
Source: https://treas-secure.state.mi.us/ptestimator/PTEstimator.asp
Source: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/taxes/2013_Total_Rates_450527_7.pdf

Personal taxes are very high as well. 18th highest or 12th highest in the nation, for the least amount of services.


and this

Quote from: HankB on May 30, 2014, 03:03:49 PM
Several years ago I read about someone making an effort to "recruit" good folks to come to Detroit, with the enticement of "free" properties.

Now granted, many of these properties were "fixer uppers" even in cases where all the wiring and plumbing HADN'T been looted, but apparently the city's requirement for a great many permits, licenses, and mandatory building code upgrades in order to do ANY property rehab work was both daunting in extent and very expensive to accomplish, to the point where the "free" properties were actually rather pricey.

make me think that

Quote from: KD5NRH on May 30, 2014, 02:29:15 PM
The trick would be driving out the people that made them that way (a lot of that wasn't just unassisted decay,

are at least partially in city hall.
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Re: Progressiveism in action: the story of Detroit as told by street view
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2014, 06:49:44 PM »
Quote from: scout26 on May 30, 2014, 05:55:09 PM
When the guy from Californistan says "HOLY CRAP" at your tax rates, there's a real problem.

Thread veer: property taxes in California are actually pretty reasonable.

From http://homeguides.sfgate.com/average-property-tax-rates-california-51758.html :

Quote
In California, the assessed value is the property price at the last sale plus no more than a 2 percent increase per year.
...
Property tax rates in California generally fall within the range of 1.1 percent to 1.6 percent of assessed value, with an average close to 1.25 percent.

State income taxes and sales taxes are another story . . .
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Progressiveism in action: the story of Detroit as told by street view
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2014, 07:00:00 PM »
Sad, that. Some of those old places looked kinda cool.

Brad
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Re: Progressiveism in action: the story of Detroit as told by street view
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2014, 07:45:06 PM »
It takes a constant effort to maintain civilization. 
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Re: Progressiveism in action: the story of Detroit as told by street view
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2014, 10:40:31 PM »
Quote from: Angel Eyes on May 30, 2014, 06:49:44 PM
Thread veer: property taxes in California are actually pretty reasonable.

From http://homeguides.sfgate.com/average-property-tax-rates-california-51758.html :

State income taxes and sales taxes are another story . . .


Is that a result of Prop 13?
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Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

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Re: Progressiveism in action: the story of Detroit as told by street view
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2014, 01:46:04 AM »
Quote from: scout26 on May 30, 2014, 10:40:31 PM
Is that a result of Prop 13?

Yup.  Of course, the Left in Cali keep making noises about repealing it . . .
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KD5NRH

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Re: Progressiveism in action: the story of Detroit as told by street view
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2014, 02:41:29 PM »
Quote from: RevDisk on May 30, 2014, 04:43:30 PM
On a $100k house,

Is that value taking into account the "it's in f'ing Detroit" factor?  Because I'm thinking what sells for $100k elsewhere wouldn't be worth the match to set fire to it in Detroit.
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Re: Progressiveism in action: the story of Detroit as told by street view
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2014, 10:16:29 PM »
Quote from: RevDisk on May 30, 2014, 04:43:30 PM
Taxes regime is brutal.

On a $100k house, it's $6,774 in taxes for your primary residence. $8,575 for rental, business or secondary residence.
Source: https://treas-secure.state.mi.us/ptestimator/PTEstimator.asp
Source: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/taxes/2013_Total_Rates_450527_7.pdf

Personal taxes are very high as well. 18th highest or 12th highest in the nation, for the least amount of services.


Holy crap - that is 3x what I pay on a house worth 2.5x as much.
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Re: Progressiveism in action: the story of Detroit as told by street view
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2014, 09:39:41 AM »
Quote from: RevDisk on May 30, 2014, 04:43:30 PM
Taxes regime is brutal.

On a $100k house, it's $6,774 in taxes for your primary residence. $8,575 for rental, business or secondary residence.
Source: https://treas-secure.state.mi.us/ptestimator/PTEstimator.asp
Source: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/taxes/2013_Total_Rates_450527_7.pdf

Personal taxes are very high as well. 18th highest or 12th highest in the nation, for the least amount of services.


 :O

I pay that, on a house worth almost 3x that much, in a state with no income tax, and 911 will get me a dozen cops from two agencies, fire dept or a bambulance in under 5 minutes.



An interesting thing about Detroit is the riverfront renaissance going on now.  http://www.mlive.com/business/detroit/index.ssf/2013/06/globe_building_being_demolishe.html
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20080811/DM02/664780334/riverfront-revival
Detroit might just rise from the ashes.
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Re: Progressiveism in action: the story of Detroit as told by street view
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2014, 10:03:43 AM »
I pay less than 10% of that on a house worth 1.7X that. I have full police, fire and EMT services, as well as weekly trash and recycling pickup. When I was paying $4500 on a $170K house, and yard waste was only picked up weekly from the end of October until the end of November. They only picked up grass clippings. No branches or such.

Here they take clippings, branches, lumber, TV's, furniture or whatever you put out. They pick that stuff up weekly, if some scavenger doesn't take it first.

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