Range Rules & the Mindset Behind Them

[roo_ster]

Touring through various gun range web sites in search of a local hunter ed class* for my wife has evoked some thoughts on gun ranges and their rules I have developed over the years.

FWIW, I have shot at everything from unimproved gravel pits to .mil training ranges and experienced the full range of rules from "free-for-all" to "do nothing until told and nothing more"


Here are a few of the more annoying range rule mind sets I have encountered.  Save the, "It's their range, so leave if you don;t like their rules."  I understand that.  This is not a discussion of property rights, but of attitudes.

Our Rules Are the Most Sensible Rules
Every range that is not completely open and free-for-all has a personality that develops the rules.  If the range, environment, or personalities change over time, so do the rules.  Whatever their current state, the general attitude by those responsible for their codification is that their rules, at that time, are the most sensible rules possible...and all others are either control freaks or wildly unsafe shooters.


Everyone Else Is An Idiot, Agent of Chaos, Lazy, And Unwilling To Follow Instructions
So stay the hell off my range!

I will only comment so far as to direct you to the following website and ask you to do as I did: examine it for hunter ed data.
http://www.dentoncountysports.com/

I can understand frustration when folk appear on my doorstep and are not prepared to my level of satisfaction.  BTDT.  Deliberately obfuscating requisite data is counter-productive to folk who don't meet the lazy/crazy/stupid assumption.  I seek information to accomplish a task, thank you.  Frankly, it would be a cold day in Hades before I ever took my wife to such a place.  Deliberate condescension is not something I look for in prospective trainers of my wife.

In all fairness, the man responsible for that (http://www.dentoncountysports.com/) is reportedly a fine, friendly fellow.  I suspect that most he meets have gone though his website filter and he rarely comes across patience-trying types.


We Don't Like Those Kinds of Shooters and FTLoG Use Only Bullseye Targets

I gleaned the following from another local range:

NO full camo  (We are a sportsmen's club not a paramilitary organization)
NO full automatic fire is allowed
NO targets that depict a human form or outline of a human form

I wonder, when they say "full camo," do they mean a coordinated set?  I don't think I own a complete set of camo, but could likely come up with a BDU Field Jacket and some chocolate chip 5.11 pants.

I suspect these folks might not be as vociferous in their protest of, say, a new AWB as they might be of a "Sniper Rifle" ban or a "Large, Smoothbore, Man-Killing Weapon" ban.


There are other annoying attitudes, but I must stop here, as I grow weary.  I am sure y'all can describe some others I have missed, such as the evergreen "Range Nazi."

Anyways, seeing that ^^^ sort of mess makes me appreciate all the more the ranges with positive attitudes.


My own attitude:
I prefer "Big Boy Rules" ranges.  Meaning, act in a safe manner, be responsible, and train how you will.  Failure to stay safe and responsible is an invitation to leave.  Some few private ranges allow for this.  No public range that I know of operates in this manner.  I understand that some ranges can not operate in this manner.

When I approach a new range, I try to figure out their attitude in addition to their written rules.  I especially try to key on what might set them off into a tizzy.  I assiduously follow their rules, both written & otherwise.










* Not interested in rushing her through hunter ed and getting her hunting this year.  Mid-DEC to Mid-JAN just happens to be the only occasion she has had free time for such in quite a while.  The next time I call someone making a hunter ed inquiry and they respond with something akin to, "Cutting it close, aren't you?  You shoulda planned this out and done it in the summer," I might take a contract out on the *&%!wad.

[Monkeyleg]

There was an officer of a club I belong to who was a nut. He wouldn't allow two shooters to post targets in a manner that would allow the paths of fire to cross. How often do two bullets collide?

[Brad Johnson]

A lot of well-meaning range owners/operators will try to cover every conceiveable issue in their range rules.  Unfortunately that usually results in range rules that span several single-spaced typewritten pages.  The sheer length of the rules results in people glossing over them.  They don't want to spend a bunch of time on the massive redundancy and overly trite nitpicking of what could be covered in a few broad and sensibly stated rules.

Then there are the "Personal Hot Button" range rules like the "No Full Camo" above.  I've also seen "No foreign guns" and "No high powered ammunition allowed".  My personal favorite is "No Loud Guns".  Okay, so what's next ... no wet water?

Some rules I'd like to see:

No spitting in or on the shooting area.
I so love pulling up to the shooting bench and seeing a puddle of chew-juice shimmering in the afternoon sun.  Even better is a fresh wad of lip lard on the seats in the shooting area.  Some people treat the world like it's their personal spittoon.  If you're going to snark a mouth brownie, take a step or two and do it into the dirt.  If you're going to be indside take a small container you can cap and throw away.

Please be kind to your fellow shooters.  Use good personal hygiene.
Yes, I'm serious.  Nothing like taking a first-time shooter to the range only to have people on either side of you exuding their own personal deflector shields.  Soap has been around for centuries.  Use it.  Ditto a little dab of deoderant.  The smell of burning gunpowder may not be the breath of spring but you don't have to add your own level of aroma to the mix.

Brad

[Perd Hapley]

I'd like a rule that bars tennis shoes/sneakers, if worn with camo pants.  Unless the shoes are black or something.

No, actually that should be a federal offense, anywhere in the United States or its sovereign territory. 


But in general, you gotta love the people that play dress up at the range or the gun show.  I mean if you want to train with your real field gear you will really wear when shooting, that's one thing.  But you can tell that some people are just desperately trying to fit in. 

[Manedwolf]

I think the most amusing I had heard of was an indoor range banning Wolf ammo due to the reek it produced.

[280plus]

One place I go doesn't want you to place anything on the berm to shoot at, most commonly clay pigeons. Why? Because a round might hit a rock and ricochet. BUT you can place your paper target on a stand directly in front of the berm. Apparently your shot won't penetrate the paper so it will never hit a rock on the berm if you do it that way.   

[Nitrogen]

It could be worse.  You ever been to Quail Creek?

Ugh.  Crazy rangemaster almost unholstered his sidearm when someone kept "firing too fast" (i.e. .05 seconds short of 1 shot per second.  He was there with a stopwatch)

Also told me "If you really wanna shoot THAT (being my AR) you should join the millitary, kid!"

[roo_ster]

It could be worse.  You ever been to Quail Creek?

Ugh.  Crazy rangemaster almost unholstered his sidearm when someone kept "firing too fast" (i.e. .05 seconds short of 1 shot per second.  He was there with a stopwatch)

Also told me "If you really wanna shoot THAT (being my AR) you should join the millitary, kid!"

[Note to self: Do NOT visit Quail Creek's website or brick & mortar location.]

[BridgeRunner]

Sometimes it's only the presumed mindset behind them.  My range was once excoriated on THR for being Fuddish and stupid because I mentioned a six-round per mag limit.  Turns out there's a freeway behind and above the berm. They've had issues with muzzle climb when shooters fill up a thirty round mag and start shooting fast.  The rule is to prevent someone on the freeway from getting shot.  No full auto either, for obvious reasons.

But yes, I hear what you all are saying.

[HankB]

I was a member of a club that was often open to the public, and I spent time as a range officer.

Basically, I DIDN'T CARE what people did so long as they were safe. My SOLE purpose was making sure nobody got shot. We only had a handful of rules, the most important of which were "muzzle control" and "don't monkey with your gun AT ALL when people were downrange setting targets."

Rapid fire? As long as you're keeping your rounds on target, fine. Camo clothing? Why the heck should I care? Military-pattern rifles? Cool, how do you like it?

There was an officer of a club I belong to who was a nut. He wouldn't allow two shooters to post targets in a manner that would allow the paths of fire to cross. How often do two bullets collide?

The treasurer of the club I belonged to was like that. A couple of us were there during "non-public" hours and had several targets apiece set up at 100 yards, when Mr. Treasurer comes and says it's "unsafe" to shoot at targets spaced just a couple of feet apart at 100 yards.

As he went on and on, I realized . . . he wasn't wearing his club membership card clipped to his shirt, as club rules required.

I asked "Who are you?"

"I'M THE TREASURER!!!"

"No, club officers KNOW the rules about wearing ID . . . you're not, so I figure YOU'RE A TRESPASSER! Please leave NOW before I call the sheriff!!!"   

[Fly320s]

jfruser,

That website and gun club is terrible.  It looks like it was set up in a shipping container, and the website, too.

[roo_ster]

jfruser,

That website and gun club is terrible.  It looks like it was set up in a shipping container, and the website, too.

Never been to the physical place.  If it works, I would be fine with "austere" conditions.  My favorite range here 'bouts has only a single-wide mobile home for indoor/classroom space.  The investment is in the personnel, ranges (8+ 25m bays, shoothouse, & a 200m rifle range), and such.

OTOH, the website is not something I can accurately describe with mere words.  It is something that has to be experienced to understand the awfulness.  I would caution Manedwolf against clicking the link, as he might be shocked into design-felony catatonia...or rage.  Not sure which.

I navigated the entirety of it to get the data I wanted just to show that I could follow all instructions to the letter.  But, I bet it would turn off any non-gunnie who has not had experience with the military "what is not mandatory is prohibited" sort of attitude.

[Gewehr98]

I'll play devil's advocate, if only because I've been a NRA-certified Range Officer since 1995.  The three ranges I've worked at since then had pretty much the same set of rules, with maybe a little variation. BTW, they've all had the "no crossfire rule". 

Public firing ranges, and private ones, are an absolute liability nightmare.  That should be first and foremost in any shooter's mind as they sign in and put their targets up. One can dwell on "attitudes" and the RO's "power trip" until the cows come home, but there is indeed a bigger picture at play. 

I've sent people home.  I don't like doing it, but when they show up drunk, don't cease fire when the buzzer calls for it, shoot at wildlife that's walking in front of the 300 meter berm, shoot at the cattle on the acreage to the side of the range, bump-fire an AK standing behind the benches and other shooters, or load the wrong ammo in a handgun and wonder why it's got a "funny recoil", then I'm going to minimize that range's headache by removing said liabilities from the premises.

Power trip?  No.  Keeping yourself and others at the range safe?  You bet. Preventing a lawsuit or insurance claim on the range owners?  Damn straight.

'Tards exist everywhere, and the 2nd Amendment guarantees them the right to do dumb things with guns.  As long as they do, you're going to find some disagreeable rules at firing ranges.   :|

[Edited for spelling]

[Bogie]

There was an officer of a club I belong to who was a nut. He wouldn't allow two shooters to post targets in a manner that would allow the paths of fire to cross. How often do two bullets collide?

We don't allow intentional crossfiring. It tends to mangle the target stands that are downrange beyond the target that's being shot at.
 

[roo_ster]

I've sent people home.  I don't like doing it, but when they show up drunk, don't cease fire when the buzzer calls for it, shoot at wildlife that's walking in front of the 300 meter berm, shoot at the cattle on the acreage to the side of the range, bump-fire an AK standing behind the benches and other shooters, or load the wrong ammo in a handgun and wonder why it's got a "funny recoil", then I'm going to minimize that range's headache by removing said liabilities from the premises.

That all sounds reasonable to me.

(The tossing out, to be clear.)

[Scout26]

Touring through various gun range web sites in search of a local hunter ed class* for my wife has evoked some thoughts on gun ranges and their rules I have developed over the years.

FWIW, I have shot at everything from unimproved gravel pits to .mil training ranges and experienced the full range of rules from "free-for-all" to "do nothing until told and nothing more"


Here are a few of the more annoying range rule mind sets I have encountered.  Save the, "It's their range, so leave if you don;t like their rules."  I understand that.  This is not a discussion of property rights, but of attitudes.

Our Rules Are the Most Sensible Rules
Every range that is not completely open and free-for-all has a personality that develops the rules.  If the range, environment, or personalities change over time, so do the rules.  Whatever their current state, the general attitude by those responsible for their codification is that their rules, at that time, are the most sensible rules possible...and all others are either control freaks or wildly unsafe shooters.


Everyone Else Is An Idiot, Agent of Chaos, Lazy, And Unwilling To Follow Instructions
So stay the hell off my range!

I will only comment so far as to direct you to the following website and ask you to do as I did: examine it for hunter ed data.
http://www.dentoncountysports.com/

I can understand frustration when folk appear on my doorstep and are not prepared to my level of satisfaction.  BTDT.  Deliberately obfuscating requisite data is counter-productive to folk who don't meet the lazy/crazy/stupid assumption.  I seek information to accomplish a task, thank you.  Frankly, it would be a cold day in Hades before I ever took my wife to such a place.  Deliberate condescension is not something I look for in prospective trainers of my wife.

In all fairness, the man responsible for that (http://www.dentoncountysports.com/) is reportedly a fine, friendly fellow.  I suspect that most he meets have gone though his website filter and he rarely comes across patience-trying types.


We Don't Like Those Kinds of Shooters and FTLoG Use Only Bullseye Targets

I gleaned the following from another local range:
I wonder, when they say "full camo," do they mean a coordinated set?  I don't think I own a complete set of camo, but could likely come up with a BDU Field Jacket and some chocolate chip 5.11 pants.

I suspect these folks might not be as vociferous in their protest of, say, a new AWB as they might be of a "Sniper Rifle" ban or a "Large, Smoothbore, Man-Killing Weapon" ban.


There are other annoying attitudes, but I must stop here, as I grow weary.  I am sure y'all can describe some others I have missed, such as the evergreen "Range Nazi."

Anyways, seeing that ^^^ sort of mess makes me appreciate all the more the ranges with positive attitudes.


My own attitude:
I prefer "Big Boy Rules" ranges.  Meaning, act in a safe manner, be responsible, and train how you will.  Failure to stay safe and responsible is an invitation to leave.  Some few private ranges allow for this.  No public range that I know of operates in this manner.  I understand that some ranges can not operate in this manner.

When I approach a new range, I try to figure out their attitude in addition to their written rules.  I especially try to key on what might set them off into a tizzy.  I assiduously follow their rules, both written & otherwise.










* Not interested in rushing her through hunter ed and getting her hunting this year.  Mid-DEC to Mid-JAN just happens to be the only occasion she has had free time for such in quite a while.  The next time I call someone making a hunter ed inquiry and they respond with something akin to, "Cutting it close, aren't you?  You shoulda planned this out and done it in the summer," I might take a contract out on the *&%!wad.

A couple of points.

I'm President of the Aurora Sportsmen's Club in Illinois.  (www.aurorasc.org).  We do have some ranges rules that may seem silly at first but make sense when explained.  10 years of ago we were out in the middle of nowhere.  Literally.  Then Suburbia moved in.  Since there are houses roughly 200 yards from the trap fields we had to do away with allowing shotgun patterning and only #7.5, 8 and 9 shoot sized target loads are allowed on the trap and skeet fields.  Suzy Suburbanite might get a tad upset if someone's Shoulderwhomperthunderboomer Turkey Load went through her back window or peppered little Johnny and Suzie as they played in the back yard.

No Rapid Fire. (meaning keep your rounds on target)  You can load as many rounds as you can stuff into your magazine, but don't put holes in the baffles.  Oh,the baffles are there because Sally Suburbanite's (Suzy's SIL) house is about 1/4 mile beyond the berm.  Also only targets allowed are paper, balloons and clay birds.  Why ??  Again we don't want ricochets nor having to clean up the mess, especially broken glass, metal bits and assorted other garbage.   The range up in Bristol, WI has a "Only 1 round in the gun at a time" rule.  

No shooting at pictures of real people.  Silhouettes, Aliens, Barney the Dinosaur, the Generic "Scumbaglowlife" Badguy, fine.   A few years back we had someone shoot up pictures of our beloved Governor.  We were advised by some of our members (a couple of LEO's, a State's Attorney, and a Judge) that it could be construed at plotting an assassination.  Bad juju for a range....

Our rifle/pistol range has a concrete floor so no drawing from a holster (again ricochets) during open shooting.  However the second Sunday of the month we do have "Skill Drills" where we close the range to open shooting and move the firing line up onto the grass and teach IDPA and IPSC skills.

Our only rule for clothing is that you wear some.  
  
* I'm also Hunter Ed instructor get get about 20-30 calls per day starting about 1 Nov each year (2-3 weeks before deer season) asking about Hunters Ed classes.  Our Club offers 3 classes a year in April, June and September (I also help instruct at other locations).  April averages about 60 students.  We get 30-40 in our June class, and to encourage people to attned that class we also do a Live Fire portion where we supply the firearms and ammo and let our students shoot Shotgun, Rifle and Archery.   September normally averages 170-190 students.  Yep, it's SRO in the classroom in our clubhouse.  

You wouldn't believe the number of times I've had people yell at me because they can't take little Johnny on his first deer hunting trip because Dad/Grampa/Uncle failed to plan and I won't cancel my hunting trips and bend over backwards and coordinate an extra last minute special class.  Sorry, but to get the instructional materials  the Illinois DNR needs at least 30 day notice to get me the materials and also to schedule a Conservaton Police Officer to teach their portion. I need to get other instructors (SURPRISE most Hunter Ed instructors also like to HUNTdurign this tiem of the year) to help.  Sorry, but I'm not going to instruct for 12+ hours, then do all the admin work @ roughly 20 minutes per student, plus do all the other behind the scenes crap, like setup and break down the room, get/pay for snacks and juice, (normally bought and donated by the instructors), simply because me giving up 7+ Sunday Afternoons a year to teach on a volunteer basis just isn't good enough for you.  

[MechAg94]

I agree with not putting crap on the berm.  Most members at my range are decent people, but I just know people would end up shooting all sorts of crap and making a mess. 
We have a "no full auto" rule.  I don't think we have a no rapid fire rule, but you have to keep your rounds below the berm and not hit the ground in front.  Bump firing wouldn't do that.  I guess if you have a huge hill behind your range, that might work.  We don't. 
We have a rule about shooting wild life also.  Good rule.  I don't want people shooting all over the place just because in armadillo stuck its head up. 

Our ranges are all outdoors.  The annual cost is pretty low so I don't mind and it is a nice area.  In all honesty, I am not sure I see the problem with that website.  What do you want?  Marble floors and wood paneling?  How much can you afford to pay? 

[Regolith]

Our range is out in the mountains down a long winding canyon with a nice big hill acting as a backstop, so we don't have to worry too much about bullets going over the "berm" (and even if they did, there's nothing on the other side for them to hit). 

Unfortunately, I also have to drive 30 miles to get to it....

It's not a very high-traffic range, and the rules are fairly lax (at least, compared to some other ranges...).  About the only restriction that's a bit of a pain is they don't allow shooting anything much other than paper targets or clays; however that's probably because they don't want to have to clean up other people's trash.  There's no on-duty RO and there is hardly ever anyone else there, so you could probably get away with it anyway so long as you cleaned up after yourself.

[ilbob]

There is almost always a good reason for odd range rules. A lot of times they are poorly written, but no one wants to spend the time and effort to rewrite them.

The range I shoot at, and have been a member of for 25+ years has a rule prohibiting the simulation of automatic firing. I have no idea where that came from, as it predates me. However, it has never been interpreted in any particular way, and people regularly shoot 4 or 5 aimed shots in quick succession.

[charby]

The gun club I belong to only has 40 members, not a whole lot of rules except don't shoot the place up, no glass on the range and pick up after yourself. Rifles, deer slugs and handguns can only be used on the rifle range. shotguns only on the trap range and archery only on the archery range. The 40 or so acres the club ones borders a county park, so we need to flip over three "Rifle range in use" signs before we shoot and it lets other members who come out to hike that folks are on the rifle range.

Range is never busy, about every 4-5 trips out I actually see someone there or someone comes when I am shooting. Its all gated off and only members have the combination to it.

[Monkeyleg]

We don't allow intentional crossfiring. It tends to mangle the target stands that are downrange beyond the target that's being shot at.

That I can understand. But this was for the 50 foot backstop, with the two shooters next to each other, and nothing behind the backstop but berm.

[280plus]

I agree with not putting crap on the berm.  Most members at my range are decent people, but I just know people would end up shooting all sorts of crap and making a mess. 

I too agree with not shooting at junk, crap whatever but some of us like to pick off the clays at 100 yds and then pick off the pieces. I can certainly understand limiting the types of crap to approved targets but to tell people you can't place ANY targets on the berm and the reason is to prevent ricochets off rocks is a little far fetched. My question immediately becomes, "Why are there rocks in the berm?"

[MechAg94]

Probably because they just dug up dirt from the property to make the berm. 
At our range, there are target stands in front of the berm so they only place to put out clays would be high up on the berm increasing the risk of shooting over.  We do have some little metal stands in a few places where you can put out cans or water jugs.  Mostly those are close in and better for pistols or 22 rifles.

[K Frame]

There's no mindset behind the rules.

They're only designed to interfere with your right to shoot anywhere you want, any time you want, any way you want...

It's 'da man' keeping you down.

[Manedwolf]

There is almost always a good reason for odd range rules. A lot of times they are poorly written, but no one wants to spend the time and effort to rewrite them.

The range I shoot at, and have been a member of for 25+ years has a rule prohibiting the simulation of automatic firing. I have no idea where that came from, as it predates me. However, it has never been interpreted in any particular way, and people regularly shoot 4 or 5 aimed shots in quick succession.

They're talking about bump firing, IMO. Because idiots can and have lost control of their weapon when doing that, especially at the hip, especially while drinking.