Has there ever been a bigger threat to RKBA than Obama

[wacki]

Has any president in history ever attempted to abolish the 2A like Obama has?  I'm seriously wondering if we've ever faced a challenge so dire before.



Law Professor David T Hardy's investigative report on Obama's attempt to bribe the law review process:
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/obama-and-the-attempt-to-destroy-the-second-amendment/

NRA fact sheet: http://www.nraila.org/OBAMA/

[Manedwolf]

It's not just that he is anti-2A, as he does not make the law.

The perfect storm is that anything the likes of Pelosi, Schumer and Feinstein come up with, in a Democrat-controlled congress...Obama will not only sign it, he'll go out and campaign to his loving masses as to Why It's Needed.

[yesitsloaded]

Our own unwillingness to get off our butts for the past three generations. The damage was done in 1934, 1968 and 1986. Obama is just a blip. Our country's war for independence turned into a shooting war because the government was looking for guns, cannon, and shot and powder. They found them alright.

[Boomhauer]

We've got Obama. Who has loving masses. Soon to be in the presidency. Supported 100% by the Mainstream Media, and plenty of people willing to do his bidding for him.

We've got supreme court justices to be replaced, soon. Note that these are generally picked by the president and approved by the legislative branch. Which is pretty much Democrat controlled, and will likely be even more so in the future.


Joe Biden, vice president to be, wrote the original AWB. Obama praised him for that, in what, the last debate? Of course, they didn't call it the AWB...they called it the 1994 Crime Bill.

I fear that while we have had individuals as dangerous as Obama before when it comes to RKBA, they haven't been in nearly as good of a position as they are now to savage it. Think about having Obama as president and the other two branches of government worshiping him. What now about checks and balances? Not gonna be any...he's got a Congress to dream it up, him to rubber stamp it, and the Supreme Court to okay it. And there's really nothing we can do to stop him once he's in power...

The best thing we can hope for is an exact copy/resurrection of the '94 AWB. What we will get is that as "a good start", and probably mandatory confiscation/surrender, plus heavy taxes on ammo. You'll still be able to have your deer rifle, and you'll be able to buy that 1 box of .30-30 that costs $100, but that'll be plenty to sight in and get you a few deer...because that's what the 2nd Amendment is all about...

And the FUDDs will give him that with pleasure. Throwing us EBR rifles owners and true believer 2nd Amendment types under the bus...

[MicroBalrog]

Remember that originally the NFA was supposed to include all pistols on equal footing with machineguns.

[wquay]

Has any president in history ever attempted to abolish the 2A like Obama has?  I'm seriously wondering if we've ever faced a challenge so dire before.

*ahem*

Obama isn't even president yet. I'd also like to point out that Obama was 1 of 12 directors of the Joyce Foundation. If his career in the senate is any indication, he probably didn't do much.

Frankly, anti-gun legislation would create considerable opposition to the new Democratic regime, get them little or no popular support that isn't there already, and make the return of a true conservative movement in 2010 that much more likely.

[Ryan in Maine]

The British?

[Manedwolf]

Frankly, anti-gun legislation would create considerable opposition to the new Democratic regime, get them little or no popular support that isn't there already, and make the return of a true conservative movement in 2010 that much more likely.

"Anti-crime bill". "Only criminals would use an AK-47, they're only good for killing people." "It's for the children."

[agricola]

The British?

Redcoat:  "Our next re-enactment theme is cheaper, we just bought a load of "Sarah Palin is a ****" shirts, a McCain/Palin yardsign and some molotovs"

[Regolith]

*ahem*

Obama isn't even president yet. I'd also like to point out that Obama was 1 of 12 directors of the Joyce Foundation. If his career in the senate is any indication, he probably didn't do much.

Frankly, anti-gun legislation would create considerable opposition to the new Democratic regime, get them little or no popular support that isn't there already, and make the return of a true conservative movement in 2010 that much more likely.

That is true.

On the other hand, you'll notice that the only reason we don't still have an AWB is because it had a built in sunset period, and not because the "true conservative movement"  ushered in in 1994 did anything to get rid of it.  My guess is that the next one the Dem's propose won't have that little 'flaw.'  It also likely won't ban simple cosmetic features like the last one did, making it much more difficult to work around it.

[slingshot]

No, Obama is a larger threat than Hillary.  Folks were so worried about Hillary Clinton.  I'd take Hillary running foreign policy any day over Obama.

[longeyes]

How can we be full "citizens of the world," the truly civilized world, if we do not mend our violent and paranoid ways?

The threat to our guns doesn't have to come from a re-made SCOTUS or another, more draconian AWB.  it may well come from international treaties that literally or de facto strip us of gun rights as part of our becoming a good national player and part of the global community.  What could be more Obamaish?

[Werewolf]

How can we be full "citizens of the world," the truly civilized world if we do not mend our violent and paranoid ways?

The threat to our guns doesn't have to come from a re-made SCOTUS or another, more draconian AWB.  it may well come from international treaties that literally or de facto strip us of gun rights as part of our becoming a good national player and part of the global community.  What could be more Obamaish?

IANAL so I have to ask...

How can any treaty trump the constitution?

[wacki]

IANAL so I have to ask...

How can any treaty trump the constitution?

Have you checked out Japans constitution?  It gets ignored like homework at crackhead highschool.

Living constitutionalist judges were 1 vote away from saying the 2A doesn't apply to us.   Nothing in the constitution is sacred anymore.

[MicroBalrog]

Living constitutionalist judges were 1 vote away from saying the 2A doesn't apply to us.   Nothing in the constitution is sacred anymore.

Have you actually read Breyer's dissent?

[slingshot]

I guess the NRA is starting their $10 million dollar TV campaign here in the last two weeks before the election.  Fox had on Wayne LaPierre and Paul H from Handgun Control Inc or whatever it is called now.  I have to hand it to the Democrats, they aren't talking about gun control and when they do they echo the Supreme Court decision and the recent Democratic party line that any new legislation would not get sufficient support.  So, enter the NRA and their Ad blitz.  It is needed to remind people of just who Obama is.  I mean the MAN, not the smooth speaking good looking politician.  He would support any restrictive gun control legislation that came to his desk as President.

It is a big no win for the Republicans.  If they talk about gun control, the Democrats and Obama say that it does not currently have support and the Republicans are using scare tactics.   The Republicans are!  But I don't think many people are listening anymore as they have been brain washed by the Obamanation.  It is the old... that won't happen.  It will.  Just wait and see!

[Manedwolf]

$10 million? That's all?

With about 4.3 million members, that's...less than $2.50 per member spent.

Good to see they're using those dues effectively. Because, you know, keeping the administration that would END the 2A out of office isn't an imporant thing or anything. Might be a Final Battle, but got to keep that powder dry for...oh. Right. This is the last chance. Whoops. But there's other priorities.

HEY WANNA BUY THIS DVD! OR THIS ONE? THIS ONE?

[Pb]

Manedwolf, the NRA doesn't use ANY members dues for political purposes... the NRA-ILA is funded from donations.  That is why they keep sending you dvds, to raise money to buy ads, etc.

Giving small gifts, (ie the dvds, etc) then asking for donations is a very old technique to get more money.  It works very well, which is why the NRA (and many other groups) use it.

If you want them to spend more money on ads, cut a check to the ILA.  They have to have donations in order to run ads (and dues fees can't be used for the purpose, they have to get donations from members).

[slingshot]

I'm waiting for Obama to say the words, I will not sign any gun control legislation during my term in office if I win.  So gun owners need to have no fears in that regard if I'm elected president.

HE WON'T THOUGH!!  He is also going to raise taxes on everyone about about 50K.  My check swelled slightly with the Bush tax cut, and I have no reason to believe when that Bush tax cut ends, it won't go back to the way it was.  Oh... but that is not a tax increase, is it?  The law sunsets?

[wacki]

Have you actually read Breyer's dissent?

Stevens yes, Breyers not yet.  How the four dissenting justices can sign on to Stevens while claiming they support 2A rights for average citizens is beyond me.  I'll read Breyer, but if it is like what you seem to imply then the 4 justices are even crazier than I thought.

[longeyes]

Of course he's the worst; the guy's openly hostile--read his past remarks--to firearms per se.

It will be a project though to get 250 million firearms turned in by angry gun owners.  Not one I would wish to undertake.

Expect a lively black market as we deteriorate into a Third World country.

[T.O.M.]

IANAL so I have to ask...

How can any treaty trump the constitution?

IAAL, and it goes something like this...President signs a Treaty.  If that treaty is then ratified by Congress, it has teh force of law in the U.S.  This would not trump the Constitution, but what it would do is create a sort of constitutional show-down, with SCOTUS to make the decision as to whether or not the law would violate 2A or not.  Depending on the make-up of SCOTUS, it could go one way or the other.  I had a profesor in law school that swore 2A guaranteed a National Guard, and never backed down.  Get someone with that opinion on the bench, and 2A means no more individual right.  If there's no individual rigt, then a couple of those international treaties having force of law means that there are no more legal American gun owners.

[longeyes]

What underpins the "international treaty" approach is this grim fact:

The U.S. is really the last best bastion of individual gun rights in the world.  There are a few other nations that offer much-reduced, far more "regulated" RKBA than here but the reality is that we are a lonely enclave of RKBA in a world in which there are two options: State suppression or anarchy-cum-warlords.  It is especially distressing that the Anglosphere has followed the "disarm the peasants" philosophy.

We must be prepared to fight on as international "outlaws," increasingly tough as that will be.  The survival of RKBA is intimately tied in to many other cultural movements, and it's high time that we began to honestly explore those links. 

[MicroBalrog]

Stevens yes, Breyers not yet.  How the four dissenting justices can sign on to Stevens while claiming they support 2A rights for average citizens is beyond me.  I'll read Breyer, but if it is like what you seem to imply then the 4 justices are even crazier than I thought.

Not ONE of the dissents had actually said the 2nd is a 'collective right'.

EVERYBODY is in agreement that some form of RKBA isguaranteed to individual citizens, however that said they seem to disagree as to how much can be legislated.

[longeyes]

EVERYBODY is in agreement that some form of RKBA isguaranteed to individual citizens, however that said they seem to disagree as to how much can be legislated.

Some form?  Well, there's the rub.  When people begin to talk too loud and too often about "reasonable restrictions," you can assume that the "restrictions" are anything but "reasonable."  If you don't have the de facto right to defend your home and your person you do not have RKBA, you have a legal fiction. 

It's interesting that we can find everything in the black hole of the Ninth Amendment except a right to self-defense that includes RKBA.