Author Topic: Record (LP) turntables? (Read 7492 times)

mtnbkr · « **on:** April 20, 2009, 11:23:40 AM »

I picked up from Woot.com the other day a nice vintage set of Disney albums (50th anniversary set). In addition, I have several albums I'd like to listen to more regularly. I have my grandparents' old console stereo in the bedroom as a TV stand. The record player works, but entire unit needs a rehab. I'm thinking about getting a turntable for my stereo in the den. The stereo is a 13yo Pioneer with equally old speakers. It doesn't get a lot of use, so it's in good shape.

What are some things to look for when considering a turntable? I'm looking at the Audio Technica AT-PL50 because I can get it from Amazon for less than $60 shipped and because some upgrades are available should I become more serious about records.

Chris

AJ Dual · « **Reply #1 on:** April 20, 2009, 11:28:52 AM »

Argh...

Analog music threads always start the same debate... Monkey vs. Petrodactyl. It's been done to death already. So I implore everyone to just give mtnbkr their honest opinion and leave it at that.

MillCreek · « **Reply #2 on:** April 20, 2009, 11:29:24 AM »

If I was to get a turntable, I would get one of those that has a USB connection and software so that you can rip a vinyl LP to a digital sound file. I wish they had those before I got rid of my vinyl record collection.

zahc · « **Reply #3 on:** April 20, 2009, 11:33:21 AM »

Don't buy a new one, they don't make good new ones anymore. Turntables are like musical instruments, and not like digital electronics that are all functionally the same. Get an old used one. You can pick up a serious turntable that sold for $800 back in 1975 for less than $50 now. Put a new cartridge on it first. You can figure out if a random old used one you find is any good at Audiokarma.org. To a first approximation, the heavier it is, the better.

That said that ATPL50 looks serviceable, an has a built in preamp which is nice. I would still buy at least a Grado Black cartridge or something. At least then you don't have to worry about your records. A quality, properly aligned and adjusted cartridge won't damage your records even if you have a fisher price turntable.

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I would get one of those that has a USB connection and software so that you can rip a vinyl LP to a digital sound file.

You don't need a USB connection or special softaware to rip vinyl. You can do it with practically any PC and any turntable.

K Frame · « **Reply #4 on:** April 20, 2009, 11:42:49 AM »

"a nice vintage set of Disney albums (50th anniversary set)."

Racist bastard, you!

mtnbkr · « **Reply #5 on:** April 20, 2009, 11:42:50 AM »

I've been looking at used ones on Craigslist and such, but so many either need work according to the owner or are suspect.

What about this: http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&Product_Code=ATPL50&Category_Code=TURN

It's the same model as above, but with some upgrades from LPGear. The upgrades add $40 to the cost.

What are some good vintage models to look out for?

Chris

mtnbkr · « **Reply #6 on:** April 20, 2009, 11:43:11 AM »

Quote from: Mike Irwin on April 20, 2009, 11:42:49 AM

"a nice vintage set of Disney albums (50th anniversary set)."

Racist bastard, you!

Hush Uncle Remus.

Chris

zahc · « **Reply #7 on:** April 20, 2009, 11:49:12 AM »

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What are some good vintage models to look out for?

Thorens, Denon, Technics, Pioneer, Panasonic, Marantz.....

The problem is every brand had a kickass turntable, and every brand had crap. Plus, they changed the product while keeping the same model name sometimes (case in point: Pioneer PL5**, which could be either a very very nice wood direct drive table, or a cheap plastic p-mount POS, depending on vintage). So brand isn't as important as getting a good model. I personally adore Technics direct drive tables of nearly any model, and you don't have to worry about belts to replace. I have a Technics SL1700 and I'm over even desiring to upgrade; I love it.

Quote

What about this

I would probably play records on it. After reading more about the stock model, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole, at least not without replacing the cartridge first.

zahc · « **Reply #8 on:** April 20, 2009, 12:01:16 PM »

Wow, pickins are much slimmer than a few years ago. It must be all those damn kids buying up indy rock records.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Technics-SL-QD33-Turntable-Record-Player-Direct-Drive_W0QQitemZ110377035326QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item110377035326&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Pioneer-PL-10-Turntable-Record-Player-Serviced_W0QQitemZ180348076655QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item180348076655&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A2|294%3A50

MillCreek · « **Reply #9 on:** April 20, 2009, 12:05:50 PM »

Quote

You don't need a USB connection or special softaware to rip vinyl. You can do it with practically any PC and any turntable.

Wow, I learn something every day. If you have any suggestions in this regard, I would very much appreciate you sharing your expertise!

Gewehr98 · « **Reply #10 on:** April 20, 2009, 12:08:14 PM »

I've stayed with direct drive quartz, myself.

That's not saying there aren't good belt-drive versions out there.

I spent my big turntable money on good cartridges. My current model is a Grado, but I've been partial to Ortofon, too. Stanton had good reviews, but their lineup these days is geared more towards DJ use.

Make sure you use an RIAA-equalized turntable preamp with whatever Moving Magnet/Moving Coil cartridge turntable you find. Without that RIAA curve, your music will sound like something that came out of Ned's posterior.

zahc · « **Reply #11 on:** April 20, 2009, 12:17:02 PM »

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I learn something every day. If you have any suggestions in this regard, I would very much appreciate you sharing your expertise!

It's very simple. Most PCs, even with builtin soundcards, have a line-in. In a pinch you could use a mic-in, maybe. You simply have to connect the (preamped) turntable to the PC with one of the now-very-common RCA-to-3.5mm patch cords.

Audacity (free audio editor) is very easy to use making it easy to edit out big clicks and pops; it also has denoisers and turntable speed-adjustment filters, so you can even record 45s if you turntable only does 33s.

Thus if you have a listenable turntable and PC you are already good to go. You either have a turntable preamp, or you are using a stereo amp that has a phono input. Any stereo amp with a phono input almost surely has "tape out" connections in the back; use those. If not any old crufty stereo amp from goodwill will. The stereo amp section doesn't even have to work, just the internal phono preamp.

If you have a bare turntable with no stereo amp, you (probably) can't hook it up straight to your soundcard because the levers are so low. You could always try though. Some turntables have built in preamps, but not many.

This website has pictures, but ignore the bit about software.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/knowledgecenter/howto/FromVinyltoComputer_StepByStep.aspx
I have recorded many albums using the builtin sound on my HTPC connected to the tape outs of my stereo receiver, and the quality is very very good.

mtnbkr · « **Reply #12 on:** April 20, 2009, 12:33:43 PM »

What about this: http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/ele/1128111345.html

Guy still has it and says it's a PL-S50.

Chris

zahc · « **Reply #13 on:** April 20, 2009, 12:43:28 PM »

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=80122

Headless Thompson Gunner · « **Reply #14 on:** April 20, 2009, 12:51:34 PM »

Does your stereo have a phono input? If not, then you'll either need a separate RIAA phono stage or a modern player that has the phono stage built in.

mtnbkr · « **Reply #15 on:** April 20, 2009, 12:51:44 PM »

Yeah, I saw that before I posted. I'm not an enthusiast, so I'm not sure if I'm missing any subtleties in the comments. It sounds like a decent turntable and the price is right.

Chris

mtnbkr · « **Reply #16 on:** April 20, 2009, 12:52:28 PM »

Yes, my stereo has a phono input. At least there's a selector button for Phono (in addition to CD, tape, AM/FM, etc).

Chris

Gewehr98 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 20, 2009, 01:38:38 PM »

That Craigslist PLS-50 should work just fine, assuming the cartridge and stylus are in good shape.

If not, the turntable itself is cheap enough for you to replace them.

HankB · « **Reply #18 on:** April 20, 2009, 01:54:34 PM »

Quote from: zahc on April 20, 2009, 12:17:02 PM

Audacity (free audio editor) is very easy to use making it easy to edit out big clicks and pops;

There are two hardware gizmos I have on my stereo which are invaluable when listening to old records: an SAE impulse noise reduction unit, which gets rid of >90% of the clicks and pops on an old record, and a Burwen 1201DNF, which is a sliding high-pass filter which gets rid of much of the audible "hiss" that's inherent on LPs.

Neither has value for most CDs, but oddly enough, they came in handy when I was re-recording a CD (she's a Frankie Laine fan) for my mother - apparently, the CD was made from an old record, and every flaw on the original vinyl was faithfully captured and digitized! :rolleyes:

digitalandanalog · « **Reply #19 on:** April 20, 2009, 10:07:05 PM »

Check out elpj.com

Best money you won't spend to play LP's.

Seriously...I wish I had one.

Bogie · « **Reply #20 on:** April 21, 2009, 01:18:51 AM »

Ask the same question over at www.partsexpress.com's tech forum. They've got a very simple BBS - the Tech Forum, and the Classifieds. Two sections. Even simpler than us.

mtnbkr · « **Reply #21 on:** April 21, 2009, 09:56:31 AM »

Quick question about two turntables...

First one is the Pioneer PL-S50 (aka PL-740 according to what I've read). It gets decent reviews and seems to be well regarded. It has a "nearly new needle".

The other, from the same seller, is a Technics SLQ300 for $30 with a new needle. Seller claims it has barely been used, but was used recently by the seller to transfer some records to CD. It doesn't seem to be as well regarded as the Pioneer.

Which one would be the better choice for someone who's just looking for a solid record player and not an serious audiophile (don't like junk, but I don't need top of the line either).

Chris

zahc · « **Reply #22 on:** April 21, 2009, 10:35:07 AM »

It probably just depends on which is in better shape, and mostly on exactly these "new" and "nearly new" needles actually are. Either one would be miles better than an Ion or similar.

here's more on the technics; i like the technics direct drive tables and had an SLQ3 for a while; it was a fine table.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=63793
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=220491
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=185464

mtnbkr · « **Reply #23 on:** April 21, 2009, 11:06:23 AM »

Ok, sounds like there isn't a huge difference between the two and the one that's in better shape would be the better choice.

Cool. I may have a record player by this evening.

I have some old, yet excellent condition, Eagles LPs to test with. :D

Chris

zahc · « **Reply #24 on:** April 21, 2009, 11:15:45 AM »

Eagles LPs are the perfect thing to test out an old record player on! If the needle turns out to be chipped and horrifically mangles the groove, nothing is lost! Save the Creedence LPs for later...

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Author Topic: Record (LP) turntables? (Read 7492 times)