Author Topic: FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance  (Read 3579 times)

grislyatoms

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,740
FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance
« on: November 02, 2018, 11:46:01 PM »
I'll stick with .45 ACP.
"A son of the sea, am I" Gordon Lightfoot

Fly320s

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,415
  • Formerly, Arthur, King of the Britons
Re: FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2018, 07:50:27 AM »
I'll stick with 9mm.
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

230RN

  • saw it coming.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,923
  • ...shall not be allowed.
Re: FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2018, 08:36:07 AM »
Is there a link for the OP?
 
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

Ron

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,882
  • Like a tree planted by the rivers of water
    • What I believe ...
Re: FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2018, 08:42:21 AM »
.45 acp is the caliber that works through my best pistols.
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

grislyatoms

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,740
Re: FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2018, 09:09:41 AM »
I saw part of the study, 230. I'll try to dig it back up.
"A son of the sea, am I" Gordon Lightfoot

grislyatoms

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,740
Re: FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2018, 09:33:22 AM »
I don't want this to turn into a "who has the bigger dick" argument. I have a 1911 micro running 9mm. I feel completely capable of defending my family with that 9mm. I also feel capable with a 1911 .45.

I have to go with .45 ACP.

I imagine being in a hole in Vietnam, and the NVA is about to over-run the position.

Two handguns in the hole, a 1911 .45 and a Beretta M9 9mm.

I'm grabbing the 1911 .45 first.
"A son of the sea, am I" Gordon Lightfoot

brimic

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,270
Re: FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2018, 09:48:49 AM »
Modern defensive ammunition make the differences  negligible... comparison to ball ammo used by military is an apples to basketballs comparison.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

Fly320s

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,415
  • Formerly, Arthur, King of the Britons
Re: FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2018, 10:09:07 AM »
and the NVA is about to over-run the position.

Two handguns in the hole, a 1911 .45 and a Beretta M9 9mm.

I'm grabbing the 1911 .45 first.

1911 = 8 shots before reload.

M9 = 16 shots before reload.

Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,166
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2018, 10:17:18 AM »
1911 = 8 shots before reload.

M9 = 16 shots before reload.

Shoot. Them. Both. At. The. Same. Time.




https://youtu.be/AEEf_00tNos?t=4
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,483
  • I Am Inimical
Re: FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2018, 10:24:39 AM »
" I have a 1911 micro running 9mm."

JMB just cursed your name and vomited in rage...  :rofl:

I'll stick with my .38 Special or my .357 Magnum.
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,318
Re: FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2018, 10:30:53 AM »
Modern defensive ammunition make the differences  negligible... comparison to ball ammo used by military is an apples to basketballs comparison.

Modern defensive ammo does not make the difference negligible. Modern 9mm expands more consistently than old JHP designs, but modern .45 ACP also expands more consistently than older JHP designs. The .45 still makes a bigger hole and achieves adequate penetration. What the FBI has really concluded is that 9mm is now "good enough," and since it's less expensive and you can fit more into the same size pistol, it offers some perceived benefits. Some shooters also find 9mm easier to shoot, since the felt recoil is less. A 9mm hit is better than a .45 ACP miss.

I own both, but I carry a 1911 in .45 ACP.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2018, 09:31:25 PM by Hawkmoon »
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,318
Re: FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2018, 10:32:22 AM »
1911 = 8 shots before reload.

M9 = 16 shots before reload.


1911 = 8 shots on target

M9 = ??? shots on target
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,318
Re: FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2018, 10:33:15 AM »

I imagine being in a hole in Vietnam, and the NVA is about to over-run the position.

Two handguns in the hole, a 1911 .45 and a Beretta M9 9mm.

I'm grabbing the 1911 .45 first.

When I was in Vietnam, the M9 wasn't an option ...  >:D
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

Andiron

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,930
Re: FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2018, 10:55:06 AM »
Directions unclear.  9mm rnds barely stay in the mag and won't chamber in my 1911.. >:D
"Leftism destroys everything good." -  Ron

There is no fixing stupid. But, you can line it up in front of a wall and offer it a last smoke.

There is no such thing as a "transgender" person.  Only mental illness that should be discouraged.

French G.

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,196
  • ohhh sparkles!
Re: FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2018, 11:07:38 AM »
More often than not I find myself with a 9mm. Hornady XTP, gold dot, or golden saber being the bullet. I am sure they will work just fine. But if I have a 230gr golden saber I imagine that is a more gooder hole. The fact that the little ones are in 30 Rd mags is the deciding factor for me though.
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

RoadKingLarry

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,841
Re: FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2018, 11:18:25 AM »
" I have a 1911 micro running 9mm."

JMB just cursed your name and vomited in rage...  :rofl:

I'll stick with my .38 Special or my .357 Magnum.

And $diety kills a puppy every time you squeeze the trigger.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

grislyatoms

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,740
Re: FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2018, 11:48:34 AM »
And $diety kills a puppy every time you squeeze the trigger.
Aww damn. That's about 3K + dead puppies.
Seriously - a well designed micro 1911 in 9mm is a *joy* to carry and shoot.
"A son of the sea, am I" Gordon Lightfoot

HankB

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,667
Re: FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2018, 01:29:39 PM »
I often carry a 9mm with premium high performance ammo and don't consider myself undergunned . . . but I'm not convinced that it's just as effective as premium high performance .45 ACP ammo.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

Perd Hapley

  • Superstar of the Internet
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 61,449
  • My prepositions are on/in
Re: FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2018, 01:37:44 PM »
As everyone knows, John Browning refused to design or carry anything smaller or less powerful than the. 45 caliber 1911A1.
"Doggies are angel babies!" -- my wife

Fly320s

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,415
  • Formerly, Arthur, King of the Britons
Re: FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2018, 01:44:07 PM »
I'll stick with my .38 Special or my .357 Magnum.

The 1960s called.  They want you back.   =D
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

Ben

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,166
  • I'm an Extremist!
Re: FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2018, 02:28:56 PM »
I often carry a 9mm with premium high performance ammo and don't consider myself undergunned . . . but I'm not convinced that it's just as effective as premium high performance .45 ACP ammo.

That's where I am. I wouldn't hesitate to carry premium 9mm. In fact after I move I'm trading my .40s in for 9mm. Yet I find it hard to believe that the same premium ammo in 9mm and .45 will be equal in both calibers. I think mass generally wins out, if only slightly.

I think the argument becomes do you feel better having more rounds available before a reload? A lot of that may have to do with what potential situations you think you may find yourself in. I'd definitely prefer a .45 or 10mm 1911 if I'm hiking in say wolf or lion country, to handle both man and beast, but might prefer 18 rounds of 9mm available in downtown Detroit. Then again, if I put myself in a situation where I need the 18 rounds (or a situation where I'm facing a cougar), I probably should have taken a rifle.  =D

Though the "9mm may be easier to shoot [accurately]" is an extremely valid point. I, without trying to brag, am pretty darn good with the 1911, which is why I don't hesitate carrying it. I will note though, that in every defensive pistol class I have taken, I was the only 1911 guy. The instructor I used carried a Sig in .45, and  I remember one class where a guy shot a sweet S&W Model 19, and I wouldn't have wanted to get into a gunfight with him - I wouldn't survive. Everyone else shot high capacity 9mms (there may have been some .40s).
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

grislyatoms

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,740
Re: FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2018, 04:40:29 PM »
Hell, I more often than not have a Sig p238 (.380) in a sticky holster in my back pocket with two extra mags of SD ammo. Used to be a Bersa Thunder. I carry that rig more often than anything else; almost always on me. I carry the 9mm 1911 on occasion. A govt. sized 1911 sees a little more wear than the 9mm 1911. Now, if I'm going to be poking around in the south side of town, where the goblins live and carry on...Glock .40. (model 22) and 5 fifteen round mags. On a very rare occasion I'll haul around my S&W model 66.

I like all of my choices. Kinda like Ben said - I can shoot a 1911 as well as most, and probably better than my other stuff. Heavier, wider bullet going (relatively) slow or a lighter bullet going faster.I love them all, shoot them all.
"A son of the sea, am I" Gordon Lightfoot

230RN

  • saw it coming.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,923
  • ...shall not be allowed.
Re: FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2018, 06:38:07 PM »
I saw part of the study, 230. I'll try to dig it back up.


:rofl:

Never mind.
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

lee n. field

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,600
  • tinpot megalomaniac, Paulbot, hardware goon
Re: FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2018, 08:05:14 PM »
FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance

Fickle

" I have a 1911 micro running 9mm."

JMB just cursed your name and vomited in rage...  :rofl:

Did his head do 360 degree turn while doing that?

Quote
I'll stick with my .38 Special or my .357 Magnum.

"Muh smoke pole!"

(I've actually been carrying my Taurus snub through this past summer until now.)

Modern defensive ammo does not make the difference negligible. Modern 9mm expands more consistently than old JHP designs, but modern .45 ACP also expands more consistently than older JHP designs. The .45 sill makes a bigger hole and achieves adequate penetration. What the FBI has really concluded is that 9mm is now "good enough," and since it's less expensive and you can fit more into the same size pistol, it offers some perceived benefits. Some shooters also find 9mm easier to shoot, since the felt recoil is less. A 9mm hit is better than a .45 ACP miss.

Lucky Gunner Handgun Ammunition Test

Re "9mm is too just as good!": The FBI has a standard.  Whether that's an appropriate standard is a separate question.  My observation from this is that good 9mm has to try real hard to meet that, whereas .40 and .45 are already there.

Quote
I own both, but I carry a 1911 in .45 ACP.

I'm fickle.

As everyone knows, John Browning refused to design or carry anything smaller or less powerful than the. 45 caliber 1911A1.

Oh,you funny.  Is .25 ACP Literally the Worst Self-Defense Cartridge?

I realized a bit ago that I'm a "whatever works" guy.  Any of the standard cartridges, as long as it works and the size is such that I can carry it and I have a usable holster for it, I'm good.
In thy presence is fulness of joy.
At thy right hand pleasures for evermore.

cordex

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,667
Re: FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2018, 08:11:19 PM »
I'll stick with my .38 Special or my .357 Magnum.
And .22LR.