*&$*(*&^$ Ford!

[bedlamite]

Starting with about the 2012 models, I noticed that they got automatic transmissions to the point that you have higher expected mileage with them than with manual transmissions.  Greater fuel mileage was one of the reasons for manuals to begin with.

Another major reason to get a manual is simplicity. Less complex means fewer things that can go wrong, and cost to repair the transmission is going to be lower.

[Sideways_8]

Another major reason to get a manual is simplicity. Less complex means fewer things that can go wrong, and cost to repair the transmission is going to be lower.

Then you might as well avoid anything built in the last 20 years. Modern vehicles are anything but simple.

[charby]

Another major reason to get a manual is simplicity. Less complex means fewer things that can go wrong, and cost to repair the transmission is going to be lower.

Not sure about the cost, if your car is made with very few manual transmissions, you may not have many options when your manual craps the bed.

By the time you wear out a newer automatic transmission, probably easier to find a wreck and do a swap.

[Brad Johnson]

Another major reason to get a manual is simplicity. Less complex means fewer things that can go wrong, and cost to repair the transmission is going to be lower.

Sometimes, but not all the time. For a worn trans needing simple, basic reconditioning (rub blocks, synchros, bearings/bushings, etc.), yes. Unfortunately when manual transmissions fail under load they tend to do so catastrophically. The resulting broken supporting members, cracked housings, etc., usually render the unit un-rebuildable. This which are rebuildable tend to require a significant investment in parts and labor, negating the overall simplicity aspect.

Then you might as well avoid anything built in the last 20 years. Modern vehicles are anything but simple.

Newer vehicles are more complex for sure, but not necessarily more complicated. Electronic and mechanical things still work the same way, there are just more of them and they are more integrated. I learned heaps more about that after discovering the South Main Auto channel on YoobToob. Eric O. is a fantastic diagnostician, especially on late model electrical systems. He does an excellent job of walking viewers through the process. Sure, he uses some high-dollar diagnostic equipment but it's amazing how much you can do with a simple scope-on-a-rope (test light) and a wiring diagram.

Watching SMA it's also a reminder of how lucky we are out here in the southwest. It's staggering how quickly cars in the Rust Belt degrade due to road salt. I knew it was pretty bad but... damn! Around here a decently maintained 10-12 year old vehicle with 150k on the clocks isn't just viable, it's considered a decent buy with lots of life left. There? Rusty crusher fodder. Eric's ability to tease rusty fasteners from their oxidized grave is nothing short of amazing (I think he lives to use Big Nasty, his air hammer).

Brad

[Ben]

I wouldn't be surprised if whatever current manual transmissions that are still out there are nearly the same cost to repair/replace as current autos.

I have to say the current autos seem pretty damn strong. Also, I learned to drive on a stick and drove a Jeep Comanche with a stick for 14 years. I know how to work a manual transmission, and I don't think I could shift better than my 2016 F-150 does in Sport Mode (or regular mode for that matter). That one is just a six speed. The current crop of F150 transmissions are ten speed.

An analog is, for example, SAR helos. I've seen videos of helos doing SAR in crazy locations where even an AJ Squared Away pilot would likely crash. The autopilot computer though, manages to hold the helo steady where the human couldn't.

Not that manuals can't be fun to drive, but the days of the manual outperforming the auto are pretty much done, IMO - at least for production vehicles.

[Hawkmoon]

Not that manuals can't be fun to drive, but the days of the manual outperforming the auto are pretty much done, IMO - at least for production vehicles.

"John Henry said to his captain,
'Now a man ain't nothing but a man
but before I let that steam drill beat me down
I'm gonna die with my hammer in my hand, Lord, Lord,
I'm gonna die with my hammer in my hand!' "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64GHrP3bCWk


Sometimes a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

Like shift his own gears.



Disclaimer: My second wife often said I was a control freak. My second wife couldn't drive a manual transmission.

[dogmush]

Doesn't John Henry die at the end of that story?

[Hawkmoon]

Doesn't John Henry die at the end of that story?

I believe so.

I would prefer to die as the owner of a Jeep with a manual transmission rather than an automatic.

[charby]

I believe so.

I would prefer to die as the owner of a Jeep with a manual transmission rather than an automatic.

I could never own a  CJ or Wrangler that was an automatic. Just feels wrong.

[zahc]

I was recently going through this with cars. Subaru still offers manuals, but only in base trim. Because manual doesn't work with the auto-breaking features. It's a confusopoly.

https://blog.dilbert.com/2016/08/04/the-bait-and-switch-confusopoly-economy/

[RoadKingLarry]

 

[Ben]

[img]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4841/31169611107_55b3a95811_c.jpg

 

Jackass!

[RoadKingLarry]

 

[zxcvbob]

"John Henry said to his captain,
'Now a man ain't nothing but a man
but before I let that steam drill beat me down
I'm gonna die with my hammer in my hand, Lord, Lord,
I'm gonna die with my hammer in my hand!' "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64GHrP3bCWk

Sometimes a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

I like the Smothers Brothers' version better, and it kinda fits: (from memory)

"John Henry said to the captain, (to the captain)
By God, I ain't no fool. (ain't no fool)
Before I die with a hammer in my hand
I'm gonna get me a steam drill too,
Lord, Lord.  
Get me a steam drill too!"

ETA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FuC5-vmgRs

[Northwoods]

Big rigs have pretty much only used automated manuals when not a full blown manual.  They tried automatic transmissions but the torque converters can't handle the torque, at least not for 1mil miles. 

[Fly320s]

I have to laugh at all the “a manual transmission is the best transmission” talk.  I wonder if you people who think that also prefer revolvers over semi-autos, iron sights over telescopic or red-dots, rotary phones over cell phones, and mud huts over modern houses.

I get it.  There is some satisfaction in “rowing your own gears,” but modern automatics are better in most categories.

Just wait until all cars are electric and there are no transmissions.  Your heads will explode.   

[Hawkmoon]

I have to laugh at all the “a manual transmission is the best transmission” talk.  I wonder if you people who think that also prefer revolvers over semi-autos, iron sights over telescopic or red-dots, rotary phones over cell phones, and mud huts over modern houses.

I get it.  There is some satisfaction in “rowing your own gears,” but modern automatics are better in most categories.

Just wait until all cars are electric and there are no transmissions.  Your heads will explode.  

I'll probably still be driving my 1988 Jeep Cherokee 5-speed.

I'll bet you're one o' them modurn pilots who even uses that autopilot thingie, right?

[Scout26]

I have to laugh at all the “a manual transmission is the best transmission” talk.  I wonder if you people who think that also prefer revolvers over semi-autos, iron sights over telescopic or red-dots, rotary phones over cell phones, and mud huts over modern houses.

I get it.  There is some satisfaction in “rowing your own gears,” but modern automatics are better in most categories.

Just wait until all cars are electric and there are no transmissions.  Your heads will explode.   

If you have a manual you are driving.  If you have an automatic, you are just steering.  Having said that, this past summer when Charby and I went to Utah for Operation Godfather, we rented a Mustang that had a 10 speed automatic.  It had the flappy paddle shifters, which gives one some choice and control, however, it pissed me off on occasion, simply because it thought it knew better then me what gear I wanted to be in.

[dogmush]

If you have a manual you are driving.  If you have an automatic, you are just steering.  

That's adorable.  Come down and ride right seat the next time I do a track day in my 335 and see if you still think that.


Look, I get it, some folks like manuals.  Hell I like manuals.  If I ever talk the budget committee into letting me get the TR-3 or MG I want, it'll have a stick.  Were I to get a classic 'Stang, I'd look for a 4-speed, because, like my SMLE or Garand, sometimes the old stuff is fun, and it's part of the experience.  It's just that, also like my SMLE and Garand, the modern stuff, with the benefits of design evolution is better in pretty much any quantifiable way.*  Honestly, as someone that's rebuilt a bunch of both kinds of transmissions, the manuals may have a lower parts count, but they are more of a pain to rebuild.  

Hawk should absolutely buy the transmission he wants.  $40k is a lot of money to spend on something you are "meh" on.  I just think it's funny that he is looking for the obsolete, worse tech.  FWIW he's not alone.  I just had to cancel my Dad's Christmas present because I noticed at the last minute what I wanted to get hi has a free app to control it, and he still refuses to get a smart phone.  So load your Garand, drive your CJ, and tell the kids to get off your lawn.  We'll just post some good natured ribbing from our smartphones as our car shifts itself, has more horsepower, and is smoother and faster.

FWIW, Were I in the market for a new truck (I'm not, my F150 has 10 years left in it) I would go for the Ranger over the Taco or Frontier because I'd rather have the more powerful and efficient engine than the manual.  A truck is not likely to Rally or be in a drift competition where locking it into a gear would be handy, but it is likely to pull things or need the extra torque the Eco-Boost provides.  


*It should be noted here that there are transmissions and then there are transmissions.  In much the way that the manual in an 82 Escort is not the same to drive as an 82 911, the automatic in a Fusion is not the same as the automatic in an M5.  One of the reasons I bought a 3 series over it's competitors in the sport sedan market is the engine and the ZF 8-speed are awesomely engineered and pretty perfectly programmed.  I could have gotten a car that was cheaper, or one that was more reliable, or even a bit faster, but this very issue (driver engagement with the powertrain) pushed me to the one I got.  Don't buy the Escort.

[Scout26]

Like I said, I liked, for the most part, the 10 speed auto in the Mustang.  We got great gas mileage and it was smooth ride.  I also understand that in modern more powerful trucks, a manual is not practical and the auto doing a much better job of transferring torque and power to the wheels.

However, I drive a Subaru Outback.  I like the 6 speed manual, except for the 5th gear.  In it, I'm driving, especially here in Chicago traffic.  I've driven manuals since 1983 (except for 4 years I had a Saab 900 with an Auto trans...bleh.)

Which is another thing I miss....that turbocharger....sigh...

[Ben]

I'm driving, especially here in Chicago traffic.  

There's the main reason I gave up on manuals. I got sick of driving in stop and go traffic with them. Had I been living in a more rural area at the time, I likely would have held out longer. Autos in the '90s weren't great like they are now, but they were convenient.