Door to Door

[glockfan.45]

Then there's my church, which has been known to have segregated pool parties.

Insert something about attracting more flies with honey than with vinegar here. About snake handling, It is a regional practice more common in the south and southwest than anywhere else. My Grandmother grew up in rual Kentucky back in the 30s and 40s and her family attended a church that practiced it. She doesnt do it anymore after marrying my late Grandfather (a Pentecostal Minister). A local Babtist church had a habbit of knocking on my door while I slept (I work nights and sleep days). Answering the door totally nude once fixed that though.

[Matthew Carberry]

In the interests of full disclosure, I once was a member of (and then ran) a Bible Study that got the nickname, "Singles Hottub Bible Study:  Where There's Plenty of Speakin' in Tounges and Layin' on of Hands."  FWIW, our Bible study was the non-charismatic one that had a study plan & everything.

My church is a non-denominational evangelical outfit, we likes our raising of hands but not so much the laying on thereof.

My pastors are cool, so I think I'll suggest that name for the over-30 singles group.  

[Perd Hapley]

Then there's my church, which has been known to have segregated pool parties.

Insert something about attracting more flies with honey than with vinegar here.

Your meaning is unclear, so I'll take a stab at what you're saying.  Are you talking about lowering standards to attract a larger membership?  Should the NRA accept gun registration so more people will join?  Take note that "liberal" denominations are not doing so well, no matter how low their standards may be. 

Finally, if a church gives up on its moral convictions...what's the point? 

[glockfan.45]

Fistful my point was I think most of us who live in the 21st century would find such antiquated notions of modesty unpalatable. For some reason I have this silly vision of men and women swimming in a pool divided by a net dressed like in the following picture.


What do you do afterwards burn a witch at the stake?

[Manedwolf]

Fistful my point was I think most of us who live in the 21st century would find such antiquated notions of modesty unpalatable. For some reason I have this silly vision of men and women swimming in a pool divided by a net dressed like in the following picture.

Or a rather creepy old priest staring a little too much at a pool of boys... 

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

When I lived in (more) rural East Texas some folks from one of the splintered-off mainstream groups kept coming around trying to get me to 'visit'.  By the third time I came to the door naked and screaming with a bad dog in one hand and a .45 in the other, they stopped.

Seen plenty of snakes passed around in little country churches and camp meetings while I was in college in Arkansas, too. I hear it still goes on- that was in the late 70's. Every now and again a victim makes the news.

Regards,
Rabbit.

[cosine]

Um, I thought sex was pretty obvious as the segregating factor. 

I was assuming so, but wanted validation.

[Bogie]

1) This past summer (lately nobody 'round here's been stupid enough to wander door to door, unless they're all political...), we had some form of 'roller fellow stroll up the lawn. My neighbor and I were standing outside, since I'd been in the garage committing mayhem upon something or other.
 
"Hello, I'm from the church of..."
 
"Wanna beer? Damn hot out here."
 
"Oh. Thank you very much." (and much scurrying down the street occured...)
 
"Well, pleased to meetcha!"

2) Back in college I knew a young lady. Biblically.
 
College got more or less over, and while we were getting our crap together, she moved home. And while she'd been at college, her folks had gone all 'roller. They took her to church. And she got assimilated. And part of their sect's doctrine was a public admission of sins. I figured prominently. I don't go to that town. She married some fellow who drives a truck or something, and quit cutting her hair.
 
3) I'll go to a snake-handling service. No problem. Hope y'all don't mind the 12 gauge and the .45s full of rat shot...
 

[Manedwolf]

2) Back in college I knew a young lady. Biblically.
 
College got more or less over, and while we were getting our crap together, she moved home. And while she'd been at college, her folks had gone all 'roller. They took her to church. And she got assimilated. And part of their sect's doctrine was a public admission of sins. I figured prominently. I don't go to that town. She married some fellow who drives a truck or something, and quit cutting her hair.

What's funny is that the opposite occurs if the parents try to mold them into an Extreme Churchgoer sort against their will BEFORE college.

They show up freshman year all prim and proper. By the next year, they tend to become the promiscuous partygirls and/or gothgirls. Rebellion. 

[Perd Hapley]

Yes, Glockfan, because certain church members have higher standards of modesty than the general population, we also burn witches.  The connection is obvious.  Or not.     Yeah, I know, you were kidding. 

Fistful my point was I think most of us who live in the 21st century would find such antiquated notions of modesty unpalatable

You might be surprised how many ways I'm going to disagree with you and at what assumptions you are making that you didn't know about. 

Unpalatable?  Yes, I live in the same world you do, roughly.  I know there's naked folks on TV and I do sometimes visit malls where teenaged girls wear as little as they can get away with.  I know that modest dress is not what people are into these days.  But to suggest that my church just go along with that assumes that we can just pick and choose the scriptural principles we want to believe in.  Or it suggests that modesty is some accidental rule thats not important. 

Listen to your own words, though.  What is antiquated about modesty?  For most Westerners, there is an unstated and largely unexamined assumption that we are progressing from the dark ages of the past to a higher moral plane of the future.  So, keeping one's clothes on belongs to the past, while "liberating" oneself from such restrictive nonsense is the future.  But why?  Why should I assume that what is new is always better?   Or why should I go along with the crowd and agree with everyone elses point of view?  If my church totally blends in with the culture, what would be the point of having church?  Real Christianity has always been counter-cultural, a minority movement. 

Think about other groups devoted to a set of ideals.  Like I said, should the NRA give up a few of its positions to gain more members?  They could afford to give up .50 calibers and give in to gun registration, couldnt they?  But in watering down their ideology, they would be giving up their own usefulness. 

[Perd Hapley]

Fistful my point was I think most of us who live in the 21st century would find such antiquated notions of modesty unpalatable. For some reason I have this silly vision of men and women swimming in a pool divided by a net dressed like in the following picture.

Or a rather creepy old priest staring a little too much at a pool of boys... 

Huh?  Evangelicals don't have priests.  My church used to have a large group of teenagers and college students that would sometimes get together to swim, or watch movies, or whatever.  I don't think there were any clergy involved.  As often happens, one family moved, one family went to another church and so on.  Since my wife and I got married, the church has almost no young singles or teenagers anymore.

[roo_ster]

What's funny is that the opposite occurs if the parents try to mold them into an Extreme Churchgoer sort against their will BEFORE college.

They show up freshman year all prim and proper. By the next year, they tend to become the promiscuous partygirls and/or gothgirls. Rebellion. 

That is the common belief held by the un/anti-churched: that by settng up a good example and insiting on decent behavior, the kid will go apesh!t once in college.

Lucky for us, it is the exception rather than the rule; according to studies done to ascertain what moral, political, and religious beliefs folks have & where they got them. (Answers: the majority cleave to their folks' and got them from their folks'.)

[roo_ster]

Fistful my point was I think most of us who live in the 21st century would find such antiquated notions of modesty unpalatable. For some reason I have this silly vision of men and women swimming in a pool divided by a net dressed like in the following picture.

Or a rather creepy old priest staring a little too much at a pool of boys... 

Huh?  Evangelicals don't have priests.  My church used to have a large group of teenagers and college students that would sometimes get together to swim, or watch movies, or whatever.  I don't think there were any clergy involved.  As often happens, one family moved, one family went to another church and so on.  Since my wife and I got married, the church has almost no young singles or teenagers anymore.

fistful, don't worry too much 'bout Manedwolf.  Just goes to show that you're lucky if an unsympathetic journalist or some such even gets your name right.

Kinda like that scene from Porky's, where the athlete goes on using the term "kite" for Jews.  Sheesh, if you're gonna slander, libel, or defame, at least get the pejoratives & particulars correct. 

[Jamisjockey]

When I lived in (more) rural East Texas some folks from one of the splintered-off mainstream groups kept coming around trying to get me to 'visit'.  By the third time I came to the door naked and screaming with a bad dog in one hand and a .45 in the other, they stopped.

Seen plenty of snakes passed around in little country churches and camp meetings while I was in college in Arkansas, too. I hear it still goes on- that was in the late 70's. Every now and again a victim makes the news.

Regards,
Rabbit.

Funny, I had a similar encounter with some JW's in East Texas (Beaumont to be exact).....
I was running late for work, in the shower scrubbing fast and furious.  Doorbell rings.  I ignore it and continue getting showered.  Doorbell rings, followed by banging.  By now my dogs are going apepoo.  I hustle to the door, nekkid, swing it open yelling profanities that would make a sailor blush.  Two young ladies represnting the JW's are standing there.  I was so frothing mad I damn near chased 'em into the street, all nekkid and soapy.....mysteriously, they never came back.....

To all you religious types, fundamentalists, wackjobs, or anyone else selling something or soliciting something:
My house is my private property.  I would never just knock on your door to convert you or sell you my products.  I expect the same in return.  Nothing, and I mean nothing, gets under my skin more than unwanted solicitiations of any kind at my front door.  Anyone doing so will be run off.

[Perd Hapley]

Religious, fundamentalist, wackjob?  Hey, that's me.     I actually went out doing the "calling" one time.  (Even the word we use for it is old-fashioned.)  Our demonination has the teenagers do it every summer.  Other church youth groups have retreats - we have advances!!  I've decided I won't do it again.  Not because people don't like it so much as because I don't like it and I'm not good at it.  I even avoid visitors to the church, if I can do it without being too obvious about it.  I'm sure it seems rude to some people, but small talk with strangers is just too hard for me.  Now if they wanted to come on APS and post a topic, I'd be all over it.   

It's interesting that everybody seems to hate the door-to-door "soliciting," but a lot of religious and political and charity groups keep doing it.  It must pay off somehow.  The Mormons seem to be thriving.  My church has a number of regular attenders that our pastor met through door-to-door.  The church was founded when our pastor moved here from Illinois, and he knew almost no one locally, so I'm not sure how else the church would have grown. 

I'll repeat that when our people "go calling" it's not with the expectation of engaging everyone in a religious conversation, although that does happen sometimes.  It's an invitation to church, which I think is much different.  If the person wants to take it beyond that, that's fine.  My pastor is the type of guy who can get almost anybody to talk, though.  Somehow, if you're interested in something, he seems to know something about it and asks the right questions to get you into a conversation.  Just a very friendly, talkative guy. 

[Manedwolf]

I just don't want any unsolicited anything coming to my front door, period.

If someone comes to my front door, it better be a friend or someone I'm expecting.

Otherwise, my home is my castle. If I'm not expecting a doorbell to ring, I could be on the phone, sleeping, cooking, eating, watching something, working out, playing a game, reading, in the groove with a bit of creative work, or, ah, enjoying the company of a female friend. I do not want to be interrupted in any of those. Nor do I want to have to "dress appropriately" to answer the door...and that includes finding a small-of-back holster and something to be in it, if it was even something I'd open the door for.

Thankfully, that attitude, a sort of healthy suspicion, seems to be the New England traditional norm. If I don't know you, what business do you have trying to gain access to my home, my private sanctum?

[Matthew Carberry]

fistful,

For the JW's and LDS, like many Christian churches, the going door-to-door is more or less formalized doctrine, based on a literal reading of the Great Commission ("Go ye into all the world").  They don't do it because it "works" on a pragmatic sense (although it does, on the "if you ask one hundred people you'll get one yes" standard) any more than your church adheres to modest clothing for practical reasons.

I don't shy away from evangelism but, personally, I feel we are directed to be a light in the world, to live in such a way that people come to us for information on salvation, we have shouldn't have to go running down strangers in their homes or out in public.  If G-d intends someone to hear the Gospel from me, He'll arrange the meeting.  It is my responsibility to be aware of and willing to answer His call.

After all, following the Golden Rule, I don't want others coming to MY door bugging me about faith. 

[Perd Hapley]

Matt, that's true, but I still figure that churches have a pragmatic side.  It works well enough for non-religious groups.  We're all annoyed by telemarketing, door-to-door, billboards, commercials on TV, radio, the internet.  But enough people respond to make it worthwhile for that organization. 


Maned, I'm with you, which is why I'll ignore such knocks at my door if I don't feel like talking to anybody.  No one's forcing you to open your door, and so long as it remains socially acceptable to approach a stranger's front door and knock, it's going to happen.  You can put up signs or fences if you'd like to. 

[Marnoot]

They don't do it because it "works" on a pragmatic sense (although it does, on the "if you ask one hundred people you'll get one yes" standard)

     Door-to-door proselyting is indeed one of the least effective tools in the bag to spread the message. Only talking to people walking on the street had a lower success rate in my experience. As a missionary, the ideal way to contact people to talk about our message has always been through current members of the church. That is, someone expresses interest in learning more about the church to one of their Mormon friends, and thus contact is made that way; or someone calls for a free Bible, Book of Mormon, video, etc., from a TV commercial.
     I never particularly liked going door-to-door as a missionary, specifically because of its low success-rate and the fact that some people are bound to be annoyed. But as carebear said, it is the Great Commission, and when there was no one to teach through more effective channels, we'd hit the pavement. In doing so we would occasionally have success that we would not have had if we had not been going door-to-door.
     I always tried to be considerate of those who wanted us to leave, respect signs, and always respected large dogs  . Those times that I may have been a little pushy I always regretted. Getting aggressive when the person has indicated they would like you to leave will only give them a more negative view on your message, as stated earlier in the thread. Unfortunately, people being people, there will always be those who don't realize that or don't care; be they Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, Baptist, or a Kirby Vacuum salesman.

[Perd Hapley]

Thanks for the replies.  I'm surprised, as there seem to be more churches doing that than I had thought. 

In those two or three days I went door-to-door, I was surprised to find a couple of people that seemed schocked and just couldn't believe we would want them to go to our church.  They seemed to think church was for good people.  One of these guys had a sever biker/stoner/junkie look going, could barely talk and had jewelry all over his face.  He looked like he was not doing very well, but was glad someone wanted to talk to him.  Never saw any of these people again, though.  I don't think we did good enough follow-through after the campaign on people that expressed interest. 

[Perd Hapley]

I can't believe I forgot to mention the Apathetic Agnostics who come around at all hours of the day.  They're very persistent and dogmatic.