Toyota takes subscriptions mainstream with monthly charge for key fob

[ConstitutionCowboy]

I like how we can start and access all the functions on our 24 and 26 year old vehicles. It's all done with the twist of a key, turn a switch,   move a lever, rotate a wheel, or press a pedal. Simplicity. And, they have enough Twinkies to get out of their own way.

The wife just made a good point: You end up buying your way into dependency with all this technology. 

Woody

[dogmush]

Bluetooth doesn't have the range for the app based functions.  The whole point of the apps is to be able to control your car from farther than the FOB can, and the FOB has better range then bluetooth.  Many of the app based features  are neat, but it's  up to the user to decide if that feature is worth the cost of maintaining  the vehicles cell service. Bells and whistles  and whatnot.

[MechAg94]

Bluetooth doesn't have the range for the app based functions.  The whole point of the apps is to be able to control your car from farther than the FOB can, and the FOB has better range then bluetooth.  Many of the app based features  are neat, but it's  up to the user to decide if that feature is worth the cost of maintaining  the vehicles cell service. Bells and whistles  and whatnot.

As long as it is just purely remote functions, I don't care.  Where I would draw the line is accessing stuff that is in the vehicle and perfectly capable of working without the key fob or remote comms.  They don't seem to be intending to do that yet.

[ConstitutionCowboy]

As long as it is just purely remote functions, I don't care.  Where I would draw the line is accessing stuff that is in the vehicle and perfectly capable of working without the key fob or remote comms.  They don't seem to be intending to do that yet.

Yet ..........

Woody

[230RN]

Would sure come in handy for car chases.  But then, what would the movie industry do for their mindless exciting gonad-tickling car chase content?

I could see Smokey calling in on a chase of the Bandit, "Yeah, dispatch, please call Pontiac and have them shut off Bandit's car for me."

You can't get all hornified and bonerized over something like that.

I've gloated about this before, but I recently got two extra car keys for my venerable Subie by walking into the dealer's with my registration, DL, and $8.00 plus tax apiece.  And it took all of ten-fifteen minutes.

When the hell are people going to get sick of various industries cooking up arcane ways to  divert a greater and greater %age of your cash flow with "advancing technology," i.e. the latest and greatest pickpocketing scheme?

Gr.

Snarl.

"Ooo, ooo, rooftop radar so I can see if there are any planes above me... gotta have it... ooo, ooo."



Terry "Been Driving Since 1955 in Noo Yawk S itty," 230RN

[MechAg94]

BMW Launches Subscription-Based Heated Seats
Steve Lehto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=831P6ixtEhU

BMW launches heated seat and steering wheel subscription service in the UK
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/bmw-launches-heated-seat-and-steering-wheel-subscription-service-uk

BMW owners outraged over $18-a-month charge to use heated seats
https://nypost.com/2022/07/12/bmw-owners-outraged-over-18-a-month-charge-to-use-heated-seats/

[dogmush]

Reading is fundamental:

BMW has launched its optional extras subscriptions service in the UK, with owners now able to activate certain techy features (that weren’t specced when the car was built) by paying a monthly fee.

Yes, you did read that correctly. A number of features have been added to BMW’s UK-based ConnectedDrive Store including heated front seats (£15 per month), heated steering wheel (£10 per month), automatic high beams (£10 per month) and the ‘Driving Assistant Plus’ active cruise control (£35 per month).

Own a BMW? If you log in to the online shop it’ll bring up the options available for your specific car, and if you really want to be paying monthly to warm your bum then the feature will be activated via an over-the-air update. And yes, that does mean all the hardware needed to heat the seat/steering wheel was already built into the car.

Not a fan of the subscription model? Each feature can be bought outright and there are others that aren’t available for a monthly fee. That includes – get this – Adaptive M Suspension that can be added retrospectively for £399 simply by clicking ‘add to basket’ on the online shop.

It's not having to pay for features you already paid for, it's giving you a second chance to buy options if you didn't already, or if the first owner didn't spec the options you want.

[WLJ]

Yeah saw that at a quick glance at the article. Charging to add extra features after the purchase is nothing new and should be expected.
Much to do about nothing

[RocketMan]

Comprehension is fundamental.  The car buyer already paid for the hardware to heat the seats when they purchased the car.  BMW should not be sucking more cash out of the car buyers to activate features already paid for when the car was purchased.

[WLJ]

But it says that weren’t "specced when the car was built"
I interpreted that as meaning adding features that weren't present in the car when the car was originally sold.
But I suppose it can also be interpreted as upgrading features that were already present.

[Brad Johnson]

Comprehension is fundamental.  The car buyer already paid for the hardware to heat the seats when they purchased the car.  BMW should not be sucking more cash out of the car buyers to activate features already paid for when the car was purchased.

This.

If it was a feature added to the vehicle post-purchase, no problem. That's no different than installing an upgraded stereo. In this case, the feature already exists in the vehicle at purchase, but you can't use it until you pay a subscription fee.

Brad

[Brad Johnson]

But I suppose it can also be interpreted as upgrading features that were already present.

Not upgrading, de-restricting. Upgrading means making better. This is paying an additional fee to activate a feature installed and operational, but electronically restricted, in a vehicle you've already purchased.

It would be no different than selling a truck with a V8, but only allowing it to run on 6 cylinders unless the buyer subscribed to a "V8 activation program".

On the flip side, it creates a huge aftermarket demand for "Heated Seat Activation Kits" (a wire and relay to directly energize the heating pads).

Brad

[dogmush]

Comprehension is fundamental.  The car buyer already paid for the hardware to heat the seats when they purchased the car.  BMW should not be sucking more cash out of the car buyers to activate features already paid for when the car was purchased.

Disagree.  BMW sells heated seats in their cars for some amount of money as an option.  If you don't pay that money, you don't get to use that option.  If you would like to use that option at a later time, then BMW is offering to sell you the functionality you originally declined to pay for.

Want options -> pay for options-> use options.

[Brad Johnson]

Disagree.  BMW sells heated seats in their cars for some amount of money as an option.  If you don't pay that money, you don't get to use that option.  If you would like to use that option at a later time, then BMW is offering to sell you the functionality you originally declined to pay for.

Want options -> pay for options-> use options.

Installing a higher-cost item during manufacturing and hoping/presuming enough people will subscribe to the "service" to have a net-positive return? That's an awful business practice in financial terms.

It's also terrible optics in PR terms. If the feature is present but only accessible by subscription, you're creating an inherent perceived deficiency which competitors will immediately use against you. It might not be such an issue in a bargain brand, but in a lux brand like BMW heated seats are expected as standard, not optional. Throwing subscription fees on expected standard features in a $80-120k vehicle bristling with leading-edge tech does not a happy customer base make. Well, not for you anyway. Your competitors will love it.

Brad

[dogmush]

As a former BMW owner, I think you'd be surprised at how bare bones a Bimmer is until you add options. Everything on those cars is an option and always has been. They seem to be doing fine.

Also, if you don't like the subscription, the owner can buy the option outright.  That would be pretty sweet when shopping for a used car.  No more searching for a car built with the options you want. Buy the used car and add options ala carte.

[cordex]

Is there any prohibition (legal or contractual) against a customer bypassing the restriction to utilize the unlicensed equipment preinstalled on the vehicle they own?

[dogmush]

Under right to repair laws, probably not.  But I suspect you'd have to hack the infotainment system.  I have no idea how easy that is or is not.

On my old 3 series (2014) there was an app that I could use in conjunction with a wifi OBDII device to go into the various computers and turn on and off different functions.  Things like auto mirror fold when you lock the doors, start up screens and various options that are available in other regions but not North America could be turned on or off.  So maybe someone will start cracking the software soon.

ETA: You'd probably also have to make sure the car doesn't run auto software updates over wifi or cell antennas.  BMW's have both commo systems.

[MechAg94]

Reading is fundamental:

It's not having to pay for features you already paid for, it's giving you a second chance to buy options if you didn't already, or if the first owner didn't spec the options you want.

I am just passing on the links.   

Lots of people don't even read the financial parts of the contract for their car.  I can easily see people skipping over this sort of thing and only finding out about it later. 

I would prefer to have access to whatever options are already installed on the car.  My main concern would be that my access wasn't permanently turned on and might be restricted due to some mix-up or if the electronic control system loses contact with the manufacturer.  It should be designed to prevent that, but design mistakes happen all the time.

[HankB]

I read that Tesla's two batteries - short range and long range - are purely software differences. If you have the shorter range batter, for $$$ they'll "upgrade" your battery to long range.

Surprise I haven't read about a cottage "option activation" industry already.

[French G.]

I read that Tesla's two batteries - short range and long range - are purely software differences. If you have the shorter range batter, for $$$ they'll "upgrade" your battery to long range.

Surprise I haven't read about a cottage "option activation" industry already.

That came out when everyone magically got upgrades to get the range to bail out of a florida hurricane.

[AZRedhawk44]

On the key fob, it says that the only button that won't work is remote start. It seems like Toyota ran remote start through the internet connection.  That does seem shitty, but I bet it's  a security thing. Making it work without the keyless fob in the car.  I will say, when I had my BMW, I paid for the real time traffic, and web services, and it was kinda handy, but nothing I couldn't live without.  Alexa auto and my phone do as good or better job of web integration in my F150.

Internet ain't available lots of places people take Toyota rigs.  Remote start won't work at the head of the hiking trail, or out in the middle of Moab?  That's pretty awful.

[AZRedhawk44]

I read that Tesla's two batteries - short range and long range - are purely software differences. If you have the shorter range batter, for $$$ they'll "upgrade" your battery to long range.

Surprise I haven't read about a cottage "option activation" industry already.

There is/was a cottage industry that was hacking Teslas and offering the work-around to Tesla customers for a small fee.  Tesla sued them into oblivion.

Zero Motorcycles is going down this same route.  All bikes getting the max capacity battery but you can only access a portion unless you pay the upgrade fee through the Cypher Store, heated grips as an option, fast charging as an option... all enabled as software flips.  The hardware's on the bike.

Let's say you buy a 5+ year old Zero that is bare bones.  You can now pay the $200 option for heated grips, just to find out the factory installed hardware was damaged 3 years ago and no longer under warranty.  Thanks for the $200 though!  It's $200 more for new heated hardware.  When it would have only cost you anywhere from $99 to $250 for a variety of heated grips, new, to install on your bike in the first place.  With no software to futz with.

It's $2000 for the high cap battery upgrade.  Who wants to upgrade a used bike with a used battery just to find out the power pack has degraded anyways?  $2000 can go towards buying an entirely new power pack.

This new automotive racket is nothing more than a way to drive up the manufacturing price and flatline MSRP's, simplify manufacturing processes, and turn options into compulsory purchases.  I really hope it's found to run afoul of Right to Repair laws.  I cheer everyone that reverse engineers Zeros and Teslas and puts out alternative OSes to run the vehicles and enable soft-disabled options that should just be standard.