Taxes, jobs and economic prosperity

[Monkeyleg]

For as long as I can remember, politicians have proposed one plan or another that they promise will create more jobs and prosperity in our cities, states and country. Invariably these plans require some of the money of some or all taxpayers.

If spending some taxpayer dollars will create some jobs and a bit more prosperity, doesn't it stand to reason that taking all of the money from citizens and giving it to the government will create maximum prosperity and jobs? If not, why not?

I know the question isn't original, but I'm wondering what responses anyone received if and when they've posed the question.

[JonnyB]

Just like the so-called minimum wage. If $7 per hour is good, why not raise it to $20, so every under-employed person can have a decent life?

Presto! No more poverty in the US of A.

jb

[Leatherneck]

Presto! No more poverty in the US of A.

Until all the small businesses close and the price of a loaf of bread hits $25.00.

TC

[MechAg94]

Until all the small businesses close and the price of a loaf of bread hits $25.00.

TC

Hey, don't ruin a good fantasy. 

[darius]

For as long as I can remember, politicians have proposed one plan or another that they promise will create more jobs and prosperity in our cities, states and country. Invariably these plans require some of the money of some or all taxpayers.

If spending some taxpayer dollars will create some jobs and a bit more prosperity, doesn't it stand to reason that taking all of the money from citizens and giving it to the government will create maximum prosperity and jobs? If not, why not?

I know the question isn't original, but I'm wondering what responses anyone received if and when they've posed the question.

It is all about the redistribution of wealth.  It is easy to play fast and loose with other peoples' money.

[HankB]

. . . If spending some taxpayer dollars will create some jobs and a bit more prosperity, doesn't it stand to reason that taking all of the money from citizens and giving it to the government will create maximum prosperity and jobs? If not, why not? . . .

If government takes all money from a citizen, what incentive does he have to work at all?

If government makes work mandatory - a condition for receiving benefits - then why do more work than the bare minimum required to receive those benefits?

If government pays different levels of benefits for different types of work, unless there's true opportunity for upward mobility, again, why do more than the bare minimum?

If government only pretends to pay people, they will only pretend to work. (Old Soviet saying.)

[Tallpine]

If spending some taxpayer dollars will create some jobs and a bit more prosperity, doesn't it stand to reason that taking all of the money from citizens and giving it to the government will create maximum prosperity and jobs?

Makes as much sense as bombing our own cities to stimulate the construction industry. 

[Paddy2010]

The way to create jobs, prosperity, and rebuild the middle class actually does begin with government.  .gov needs to levy import tariffs on foreign produced goods.  Follow that up with a moritorium on environmental and OSHA regs, massive refundable tax credits for manufacturing startups, and yes, direct loans to domestic (only) corporations for capital investments in stateside factories.  Screw giving Wall Street more of our (and our children's) money.

[makattak]

The way to create jobs, prosperity, and rebuild the middle class actually does begin with government.  .gov needs to levy import tariffs on foreign produced goods.  Follow that up with a moritorium on environmental and OSHA regs, massive refundable tax credits for manufacturing startups, and yes, direct loans to domestic (only) corporations for capital investments in stateside factories.  Screw giving Wall Street more of our (and our children's) money.

 

Yep, the way to create prosperity is to artificially raise the prices of all goods. I'm SURE that will work.

[AJ Dual]

The way to create jobs, prosperity, and rebuild the middle class actually does begin with government.  .gov needs to levy import tariffs on foreign produced goods.  Follow that up with a moritorium on environmental and OSHA regs, massive refundable tax credits for manufacturing startups, and yes, direct loans to domestic (only) corporations for capital investments in stateside factories.  Screw giving Wall Street more of our (and our children's) money.

The first part there is what extended the Great depression by years. Imposing tariffs just creates retaliatory protectionist tariffs and policy in other nations which further depresses economic activity. And it slows or stops foreign investment and job creation completely if raw materials or partly finished goods they need will be more expensive.

The second part of this has some merit. Less regulation and taxes is always a good start.  And a sane monetary policy would make the need for .gov loans unnecessary. The Federal Reserve needs to focus on protecting the value of a STABLE dollar, and nothing else. The fact that they now see themselves as the guardian of markets that are "too big to fail" is a big part of why we are in the current economic mess. Failure is a healthy thing for markets, because the pain/losses of that will keep the market from repeating whatever negative behavior it was that got them in the mess in the first place.

Privatize Social security/FICA match, eliminate the payroll tax, capital gains taxes, and reduce the corporate income tax rate to match that of China's, and the U.S. would have a labor shortage crisis within five years.

[grampster]

"Privatize Social security/FICA match, eliminate the payroll tax, capital gains taxes, and reduce the corporate income tax rate to match that of China's, and the U.S. would have a labor shortage crisis within five years."

Oh, bushwah.  That'll never work.  We wouldn't have any need for the politicians and bureaucrats who make our lives so prosperous and easy like we have now.  Grow up!    Don't forget to add a few hundred dollars in donations when you file your taxes to reduce the national debt like a good little boy.

[darius]

Yep, the way to create prosperity is to artificially raise the prices of all goods. I'm SURE that will work.

I think Paddy's intent was to keep the profits and the jobs in the US and not in some third rate backwater pig sty. Something tells me that most American made items would sell for about the same as the imported ones.  Maybe there would be less profit for the seller but I think we could handle it, within reason.

In many cases the cost of labor to make an item is only a very small part of the total cost anyway. Corp overhead and profits eat up much of the cost to the retailer, that plus freight.  I am thinking mainly of the small items we buy at Wally World.

[MicroBalrog]

Corp overhead and profits eat up much of the cost to the retailer, that plus freight.

Want to lower profit margins? INCREASE COMPETITION.

[MechAg94]

I think Paddy's intent was to keep the profits and the jobs in the US and not in some third rate backwater pig sty. Something tells me that most American made items would sell for about the same as the imported ones.  Maybe there would be less profit for the seller but I think we could handle it, within reason.

In many cases the cost of labor to make an item is only a very small part of the total cost anyway. Corp overhead and profits eat up much of the cost to the retailer, that plus freight.  I am thinking mainly of the small items we buy at Wally World.

Rather than artificially increasing the cost of foreign goods, a better solution would be to work to STOP artificially increasing the cost of domestic goods through unneeded taxes and overbearing regulations.  Then you give yourself diplomatic points by not increasing tariffs and give your own companies a boost for competing in foreign markets.  You also help keep your own companies from moving offshore and taking some of their profits with them. 

[Paddy2010]

".....Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."
      -Barry Goldwater 1964

Rather than artificially increasing the cost of foreign goods, a better solution would be to work to STOP artificially increasing the cost of domestic goods through unneeded taxes and overbearing regulations.  Then you give yourself diplomatic points by not increasing tariffs and give your own companies a boost for competing in foreign markets.  You also help keep your own companies from moving offshore and taking some of their profits with them.  

That's quite a shortsided view in my opinion.  Will you work for $2 for a 12 hour shift? 

Import tariffs do not 'artificially increase the price of goods' unless you also believe that our standard of living is 'artificially sustained'.
If you need an explanation of that statement, I'll be glad to provide it.  

[Paddy2010]

Want to lower profit margins? INCREASE COMPETITION.

Yes, competition can (and should) be increased by trust busting. 

"Privatize Social security/FICA match, eliminate the payroll tax, capital gains taxes, and reduce the corporate income tax rate to match that of China's, and the U.S. would have a labor shortage crisis within five years."

Sure, let's just turn it all over to the corporations.  It worked for Mussolini, didn't it?

[MicroBalrog]

Sure, let's just turn it all over to the corporations.  It worked for Mussolini, didn't it?

Historical fakery. The word "corporations" was not used by Mussolini to mean "companies".

Yes, competition can (and should) be increased by trust busting. 

The same trust-busting laws introduced at the behest of the biggest train companies to crush competition?

[Paddy2010]

The same trust-busting laws introduced at the behest of the biggest train companies to crush competition?

So you're saying privately owned corporations controlled government?  

But let's not even go there.   I think we can agree that this country was not founded upon, and did not prosper, on either corporatism or socialism, but rather individualism. Let's keep it that way.  Let's use the power of government to represent the interests of WE, THE PEOPLE.

[MicroBalrog]

So you're saying privately owned corporations controlled government? 

Amazing, isn't it?

[Paddy2010]

Not amazing at all. Quite inevitable actually when so many are duped by (phony) ideology.

[Balog]

SO punishing people for wanting to buy goods not available in the US (or at a better price) is representing "the People" better? Let me ask you: are you a union man? Your arguments sound familiar.

As you point out, America can't compete on cheap crap that sells for $1 at Walmart. We have much better products than China etc, but due to labour costs, punitive taxes, idiotic regulations etc the costs are so much higher as to be uncompetitive. Eliminate all the punitive taxes and regulations, and America can produce a product that is x2 as good as China without being x20 as expensive.

[MicroBalrog]

Not amazing at all. Quite inevitable actually when so many are duped by (phony) ideology.

When people think it's the job of government to decide which company lives and which company dies, then of course companies will be bribing (legally and otherwise) the government. You have guys with billions of bucks, and they stand to make billions, dozens of billions of profits, based on their relationship with government, what the hell do you think they'll do?

Of course the least principled, most well-connected corporate fatcats will win.

[Jamisjockey]

When people think it's the job of government to decide which company lives and which company dies, then of course companies will be bribing (legally and otherwise) the government. You have guys with billions of bucks, and they stand to make billions, dozens of billions of profits, based on their relationship with government, what the hell do you think they'll do?

Of course the least principled, most well-connected corporate fatcats will win.

Which is what happened in the Health Care bill.  Provisions for the drug patents to last longer means that the drug companies stand to earn billions upon billions in new revenues in the future.  So, for a couple hundred million in investment they ran commercials and advertisements supporting the bill. 

[Jimmy Dean]

Something else to look at would be matching our import laws with that other other countries import laws regarding our products.

You know how many new Ford's are rolling around the street of Tokyo?   Last time I checked/none very few.  Reason was not because the citizens did not like them, reason was because new American vehicles are not allowed over there, it would create competition with their own companies.  Military can bring over American vehicles taht where made before June 1971 I believe is the date, that is it.

It is the same with other American made products over there, our stuff cannot be sold over there off base.  But we allow them free access to the world's largest market over here.  imho, Time to even the playing field some.

[longeyes]

You can't have capital without savings.  You can save on your own--free society--or you can have the government save for you (think China).  Don't think fascist societies can't work; you can have prosperity without liberty.  We prefer both.  

And it's hard to have savings when everything in a culture like ours increasingly militates against deferred gratification.