Author Topic: Why your kids can't work their way through college any more  (Read 3489 times)

MillCreek

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http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/07/25/481402473/why-summer-jobs-dont-pay-off-anymore

We have discussed this before, and I thought this was an interesting article. 
_____________
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MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


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makattak

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Re: Why your kids can't work their way through college any more
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2016, 11:47:23 AM »
What's interesting is what hasn't kept pace with inflation-

The minimum wage form 1981, in today's dollars would be $8.80, instead of the $7.35. So it's slightly off of inflation.

The tuition of college from 1981 would be $7,610.33, Instead of the $19,548 it currently is.

There is a problem here, but, of course, the solution the politicians want is to throw more money at it without ever examining what caused the massive increases in tuition.

Because more money ALWAYS solves the issue.

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So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re:
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2016, 11:57:18 AM »
Someone  else's money

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Mannlicher

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Re: Why your kids can't work their way through college any more
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2016, 02:30:36 PM »
working your way through college still works.  Both of my kids took that route.  Their degrees were not completed in 4 years, but when they graduated, they had no debt, and had gained a lot of experience.  
Son owns and runs two successful businesses,  and my daughter is a top performer in sales with one of the largest Pharma companies.  Most of their friends are saddled with college debt, and are not doing any better, if as well, in their careers.

makattak

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Re: Why your kids can't work their way through college any more
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2016, 03:02:10 PM »
working your way through college still works.  Both of my kids took that route.  Their degrees were not completed in 4 years, but when they graduated, they had no debt, and had gained a lot of experience. 
Son owns and runs two successful businesses,  and my daughter is a top performer in sales with one of the largest Pharma companies.  Most of their friends are saddled with college debt, and are not doing any better, if as well, in their careers.

How long ago?
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

KD5NRH

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Re: Why your kids can't work their way through college any more
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2016, 04:45:19 PM »
How long ago?

And in what jobs?  For someone with the right preexisting skill or talent, getting a part time job significantly over minimum wage, or a full time one with tuition assistance and cooperative scheduling is an option.  (In fact, a couple of jobs I've had, the only way to not get stuck with mandatory overtime nearly every day was to point out that the policy that created tuition assistance required it to be paid out if the employee could show that failing the class was a direct result of missing it due to unresolved scheduling conflicts.)

sumpnz

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Re: Why your kids can't work their way through college any more
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2016, 10:29:19 PM »
There have been studies done (no I don't have link) that show the average GPA of students that work their way through college is higher than that of students that don't work their way through college.

And it's bovine scat that you can't work your way through college these days.  You're just not going to do that at an overpriced private school in the typical 4 years.  You might have to go to *gasp* Community College for a year or two and then transfer to the state university, and take 4.5-5 years to finish.  But even the private schools can be done by a working student, though you'd probably have to get some amount in scholarships or other (non-loan) financial aid like partial tuition wavers or grants and you probably would need to get above minimum wage fairly quickly.  But to say it can't be done is stupid.

zahc

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Re: Why your kids can't work their way through college any more
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2016, 10:45:25 PM »
Now, they can, barely. But if the bubble doesn't pop in the meantim,, the trend indicates that they won't be able to when my kids are college age in 15 years.
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De Selby

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Re: Why your kids can't work their way through college any more
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2016, 08:57:38 AM »
There have been studies done (no I don't have link) that show the average GPA of students that work their way through college is higher than that of students that don't work their way through college.

And it's bovine scat that you can't work your way through college these days.  You're just not going to do that at an overpriced private school in the typical 4 years.  You might have to go to *gasp* Community College for a year or two and then transfer to the state university, and take 4.5-5 years to finish.  But even the private schools can be done by a working student, though you'd probably have to get some amount in scholarships or other (non-loan) financial aid like partial tuition wavers or grants and you probably would need to get above minimum wage fairly quickly.  But to say it can't be done is stupid.

This.  In spades.  Anyone who has ever seen the movie "Rudy" knows that if you work hard at menial jobs, you can pay for a Notre Dame education.  Also, your size doesn't matter when it comes to football so long as you exercise vigorously to a sound track.

You have all these morons who think Hollywood is just movies, but there's a ton of real life in there, and it's much more valid than the hard numbers posted in the OP.  Good things happening for people who work hard is one of them.

I just wish these clowns paying their workers high wages in Seattle would stop getting headlines.  Paying a wage that might cover tuition for low skill workers is unrealistic.  It makes people think they're entitled to a living.

If everyone would focus more on Rudy, and accept living in the janitors closet while mopping floors 12 hours a day as an honourable existence, we just might not have all these economic gripes.
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Jocassee

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Re: Why your kids can't work their way through college any more
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2016, 09:19:18 AM »
This.  In spades.  Anyone who has ever seen the movie "Rudy" knows that if you work hard at menial jobs, you can pay for a Notre Dame education.  Also, your size doesn't matter when it comes to football so long as you exercise vigorously to a sound track.

You have all these morons who think Hollywood is just movies, but there's a ton of real life in there, and it's much more valid than the hard numbers posted in the OP.  Good things happening for people who work hard is one of them.

I just wish these clowns paying their workers high wages in Seattle would stop getting headlines.  Paying a wage that might cover tuition for low skill workers is unrealistic.  It makes people think they're entitled to a living.

If everyone would focus more on Rudy, and accept living in the janitors closet while mopping floors 12 hours a day as an honourable existence, we just might not have all these economic gripes.

You have failed the ideological Turing test, please try again.
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MechAg94

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Re: Why your kids can't work their way through college any more
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2016, 10:43:25 AM »
Is there some requirement that you are supposed to be able to work one job and still take a full load of classes?  There is such a thing as a part time student.  There is also such a thing as more than one job.  Lots of people have sacrificed a great deal to get a college education.  I doubt many of them would have much sympathy for people who just assume it is impossible and never try.

I went to junior college for two years out of high school.  I was able to knock out two years of prep classes then transfer to A&M with a good GPA.  I still lived with my parents and did not incur any debt.  Most major college towns have junior colleges located real close and lots of students take classes there either before they go to the main university or to transfer credits in.  There are lots of ways to work the system to get through this. 
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KD5NRH

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Re: Why your kids can't work their way through college any more
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2016, 10:58:55 AM »
There have been studies done (no I don't have link) that show the average GPA of students that work their way through college is higher than that of students that don't work their way through college.

Problem is that the former includes almost every nontrad out there, who already knows what not having a degree is like in the workforce, while the latter includes pretty much all the kids who just found a way to keep living off mommy and daddy for a few more years.

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Re: Why your kids can't work their way through college any more
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2016, 11:46:26 AM »
My dad worked 14+ hour days during the summer at union construction jobs after high school.  This was the late 1950s to early 1960s, four years straight.  He lived at home during this time, so had room & board covered.  He made enough money every summer that he was able to pay the full cost of a private college education, afford to maintain and drive an automobile, and have spending money for various & sundry other life expenses.

Fast forward 30 years and I followed his example, with similar circumstances (room & board covered), but there were no union jobs.   My summer earnings covered roughly half the cost of schooling at a state university at in-state residence rates and nothing else.

The years between had seen construction/labor wages not just stagnate, but lose value while the cost of a college education increased at several times the rate of inflation.  My folks were very helpful and my dad provided me more assistance than his folks had when he was in school.  He realized that a business degree you could get with relatively little effort was no longer worth much and that you had to go STEM or go home for a bachelors to be worth much.  And most STEM courses of study require a level of commitment that working full time during school terms while taking a full course load is not tenable even for the brightest. [For example, one single credit of physics lab required ~30 hours per week to make a passing grade.  Very much a "learn by doing for yourself" atmosphere at that dept.]  Looking at mean wages for construction jobs and state school costs, my experience was easier than someone following the same path today vs the 1990s. 

So, no, it is not impossible to work your way through college.  But it has gotten much harder to do as time passed.  Not only has the dollar-cost of a college education dramatically increased, but so has the opportunity cost when a student must string out his education by an extra year or four as a part-time student.  Instead of a 22YO graduate, we see more 26YO graduates who went straight from HS to college.  Generally with more debt. 
Regards,

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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Why your kids can't work their way through college any more
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2016, 12:20:27 PM »
You have failed the ideological Turing test, please try again.

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Re: Why your kids can't work their way through college any more
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2016, 12:45:12 PM »
This.  In spades.  Anyone who has ever seen the movie "Rudy" knows that if you work hard at menial jobs, you can pay for a Notre Dame education.  Also, your size doesn't matter when it comes to football so long as you exercise vigorously to a sound track.

You have all these morons who think Hollywood is just movies, but there's a ton of real life in there, and it's much more valid than the hard numbers posted in the OP.  Good things happening for people who work hard is one of them.

I just wish these clowns paying their workers high wages in Seattle would stop getting headlines.  Paying a wage that might cover tuition for low skill workers is unrealistic.  It makes people think they're entitled to a living.

If everyone would focus more on Rudy, and accept living in the janitors closet while mopping floors 12 hours a day as an honourable existence, we just might not have all these economic gripes.

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Re: Why your kids can't work their way through college any more
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2016, 12:51:35 PM »
Why do you people insist on feeding the troll?
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De Selby

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Re: Why your kids can't work their way through college any more
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2016, 06:46:27 PM »
Don't you have a bridge to be under???



Is roo ster trolling too?  Because he said the same thing without making a reference to the fantasy movies that drive this kind of thinking
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Re: Why your kids can't work their way through college any more
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2016, 06:59:05 PM »
Is roo ster trolling too?  Because he said the same thing without making a reference to the fantasy movies that drive this kind of thinking


You mean when he was stating that working one's way through school is not a fantasy, and also gave two examples of it, on this side of Hollywood?
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Re: Why your kids can't work their way through college any more
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2016, 07:27:57 PM »
Is there some requirement that you are supposed to be able to work one job and still take a full load of classes?  There is such a thing as a part time student.  There is also such a thing as more than one job.  Lots of people have sacrificed a great deal to get a college education.  I doubt many of them would have much sympathy for people who just assume it is impossible and never try.

I went to junior college for two years out of high school.  I was able to knock out two years of prep classes then transfer to A&M with a good GPA.  I still lived with my parents and did not incur any debt.  Most major college towns have junior colleges located real close and lots of students take classes there either before they go to the main university or to transfer credits in.  There are lots of ways to work the system to get through this. 

I was basically on the same college track and most of my friends where doing it as well.

It can be done, but you don't have much of a life while doing it. Plus, the results are often not worth the effort anymore. The most successful of the lot of 'em who actually use the bits of paper they earned said "screw this, I'll jump over into the nursing program".

 =|

Now, they can, barely. But if the bubble doesn't pop in the meantim,, the trend indicates that they won't be able to when my kids are college age in 15 years.

I think the bubble is popping. The question is will the education culture recognize it and act accordingly?
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De Selby

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Re: Why your kids can't work their way through college any more
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2016, 07:58:06 PM »

You mean when he was stating that working one's way through school is not a fantasy, and also gave two examples of it, on this side of Hollywood?

A story about how work did not cover tuition does that how?
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Perd Hapley

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Re: Why your kids can't work their way through college any more
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2016, 10:09:13 PM »
A story about how work did not cover tuition does that how?


You'd have to ask roo_ster, because he draws different conclusions from his own story than you do.
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RevDisk

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Re: Why your kids can't work their way through college any more
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2016, 10:09:19 PM »

Uhm. You could sum up the issue with one sentence. Wages have stagnated while college costs have grown substantially.

According to the SSA, average wages were 9,226.48 in 1976, $32,689.95 inflationary adjusted. 38,651.41 in 2006. People make 18% more money.
According to NCES, average college cost was $2,275 in 1976, $8,060.46 inflationary adjusted. 15,434 in 2006. College costs 192% more money.

When college cost increases are nearly 11x times wage growth, it is hardly surprising that kids can't work their way through college.
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Re: Why your kids can't work their way through college any more
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2016, 07:33:02 AM »
I would say also that today a college degree is less important than it was 20-30 years ago.

Too many trades out there that the average person in them is getting close to retirement. 
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Re:
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2016, 07:58:19 AM »
Yup

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Re: Why your kids can't work their way through college any more
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2016, 08:11:44 AM »
I would say also that today a college degree is less important than it was 20-30 years ago.

Too many trades out there that the average person in them is getting close to retirement. 
I would say yes and no. It very much depends on the trade or industry one goes in to.

There's a lot of companies where experience is of very little value, while a piece of paper is worth a ton even when it has nothing at all to do with what you'll be doing.


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