Post by: gunsmith on December 26, 2007, 12:33:35 PM
and press reports say it was cops with pistols that stopped the Tiger.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/comments?type=story&id=4051469
The identity of a boy who was killed Christmas Day when an escapted tiger mauled him at a California zoo was revealed late this afternoon. Seventeen-year-old Peter Shaplen, of San Jose, Calif., was the only fatality when 350-pound Siberian tiger named Tatiana managed to escape its cage. Two other men were injured and in an press conference earlier today, police said they were treating the San Francisco Zoo , as crime scene until they can gather more information. California authorities said they.
Post by: Rocketman56 on December 26, 2007, 01:03:59 PM
I'm considering that hearsay until something more definite comes out, but the possibility does give a reason for the tiger
to leap a 15' moat and 20' wall combination.. (I think I got those measurements right.. they may be reversed..)..
Moral: Don't make the tigers mad!!!
Steve
Edited: Spelling error, GAK! THANKS, jamisjockey
Post by: Jamisjockey on December 26, 2007, 01:57:26 PM
Post by: meinbruder on December 26, 2007, 04:32:32 PM
As far as .40S&W being useful against Tigers, I would suppose the PD on scene emptied several pistols to stop the cat; not what I would call an optimum kill for humane reasons. The boys teasing the animal is an interesting theory, it would explain a sudden motivation for escape. Isnt the Tiger known for seeking revenge?
Da Bianhua
}:)>
Post by: Firethorn on December 26, 2007, 05:42:05 PM
As far as .40S&W being useful against Tigers, I would suppose the PD on scene emptied several pistols to stop the cat; not what I would call an optimum kill for humane reasons. The boys teasing the animal is an interesting theory, it would explain a sudden motivation for escape. Isnt the Tiger known for seeking revenge?
While a .22 can be used to kill an elephant, it's not an optimal solution.
While a .40 isn't an optimal solution for killing a tiger - I'd argue that it's not even optimal for killing humans. It's optimized more towards portability than lethality, like most pistol calibers.
Still, in this situation you use what you have. If all they had were .40's, well, they'll work given sufficient numbers or a lucky hit - which 'sufficient numbers' will help through the laws of probability. Or at least bleeding out.
Post by: atomd on December 26, 2007, 06:21:34 PM
Post by: Bigjake on December 26, 2007, 06:47:21 PM
Post by: meinbruder on December 26, 2007, 07:42:22 PM
Da Bianhua
}:)>
Post by: gunsmith on December 26, 2007, 07:50:19 PM
My educated guess is the three victims only teased the cat by running in abject terror and the cops
emptied multiple 15 round mags into the kitty, I'll bet they fired 100 or more rounds and hit the cat 5 times &
The cat died from a lucky shot. SF cops all carry Beretta 96 40 S&W (this way they all can use each others mags)
In SF the bigwigs always pass the buck.
Post by: Tuco on December 26, 2007, 08:18:58 PM
Col. Jim Corbett "Man-eaters of Koumaon" used the diminutive .275 H&H (close to the 7x57, but rimmed IIRC) to kill dozens of man eaters during his work in Service to the Queen.
It's all about placement, sahib.
Post by: gunsmith on December 26, 2007, 11:30:07 PM
Post by: gunsmith on December 27, 2007, 08:38:12 AM
Quote:
Quote
Unofficial locker-room skuttlebutt.....is 22 shots...unknown how many hits.... 4 officers shooting... Apparently the big cat..didnt go down at first...and was charging the officers.
Also....it is being said that the victims.....3 guys...in their 20s...where taunting and teasing the tiger... some rumors have them inside the tiger/lion compound.... The cat apparently scaled a 20 foot wall...and ran directly after those three guys...leaving many other citizens unharmed as he passed them chasing down these three guys.
This is just locker-room information....unofficial.
On last nights news outta SF it was implied the cat followed a blood trail,(from the cage to cafe full of people) ignoring people on its way to the intended targets
Also....it is being said that the victims.....3 guys...in their 20s...where taunting and teasing the tiger... some rumors have them inside the tiger/lion compound.... The cat apparently scaled a 20 foot wall...and ran directly after those three guys...leaving many other citizens unharmed as he passed them chasing down these three guys.
This is just locker-room information....unofficial.
Post by: MechAg94 on December 27, 2007, 09:09:32 AM
Post by: grampster on December 27, 2007, 10:20:22 AM
He said something to the effect that what the tiger did, based only on what info was then available, was out of character for tigers and that that particular cat must have been consumed by hate to act in the manner that it appeared to do, ie killing one and stalking the other two.
Post by: Scout26 on December 27, 2007, 03:25:34 PM
Well now they're saying that the wall was too low.
I also read (or heard), can't find it now, that they tiger was shot/hit 12 times. They're also saying the humans may have caused it to attack. What's the old saying, "Mess with the bull and you might get the horns." So it'll be "Tick off a tiger and you might get the teeth."
Post by: Matthew Carberry on December 27, 2007, 05:33:43 PM
Cats, even the big ones, unlike bears, are apparently thin-skinned and light-boned.
Less worry about punching through heavy skin, fat, muscle and bone apparently. The .40 would have decent momentum for that situation I guess.
Post by: LadySmith on December 27, 2007, 11:58:53 PM
They're throwing out opposing information and very little facts.
They said the tiger couldn't leap the wall to it's enclosure, but today they're saying the wall is too low and it could.
They say the guy who was killed dangled his leg into the enclosure, and the tiger used it as a means to get out. They say blood and a shoe was found inside the enclosure. The police say there weren't.
They're sticking to the "tiger was taunted" story, and that Tatiana (the tiger) already had a taste for human blood from mauling a zoo keeper last year.
Now they're digging up dirt on the surviving mauling victims.
And, this being the Bay Area, the majority feels bad for the loss of the tiger.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/12/28/MNSKU5OFE.DTL
Post by: Matthew Carberry on December 28, 2007, 07:57:22 AM
Anyway, there is a steady contingent of folks outraged that (first) they didn't use tranq guns instead of killing the activly attacking tiger and (later) that zoo staff had gone to get the guns but the police took charge and took away the tranqs. The timing is sketchy on whether the staff got to the non-lethals prior to the police finding and killing the cat, or if they got them on scene too late.
Remember when the police were notified it was thought all 5 cats might be loose, lots of confusion.
The commenters on the sight are often naive and in the case of many of the "poor cat/bad killer cops"-types prone to 20/20 hindsight.
Lots of eco-hippy "but, but, tigers are endangered" (yes Virginia, in the WILD they are) or, "better the tiger was saved and the taynting humans die", though you can see the smoke from some of the non-gaia worshippers as they attempt to reconcile the value of pretty, endangered, kitty life with human life.
There are of course a few folks who point out tranq darts do not equal phasers set on stun in terms of instant effect.
Post by: gunsmith on December 29, 2007, 12:35:47 AM
Tiger, Tiger, burning bright
In the zoo on Christmas night
What intrepid beast or man
Dare taunt thy bold temerity?
Post by: Cromlech on December 29, 2007, 03:43:10 AM
Let's take a moment to consider the hang time of a tiger:
Post by: Iain on December 29, 2007, 04:52:43 AM
http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/html/news/2004/040609_joymala.htm
Post by: Rocketman56 on December 29, 2007, 01:03:47 PM
Quote
If not for the instincts and reflexes of the elephant there would have been a lot of mauled/dead people that day...
Elephants and tigers are mortal enemies, so what's described is not out of question..
Wow..
Steve
Post by: Matthew Carberry on December 30, 2007, 11:35:06 AM
Or some hay or a pumpkin or something...
Post by: Manedwolf on December 30, 2007, 11:51:28 AM
We all know that a higher caliber, one of the "safari" calibers or 45-70 would be best to have for a tiger. Even .308 if that's all they have.
But how many average SFPD cops know WHERE to shoot at a large predator to bring it down? Or could likely aim well enough to hit it if they did?
And do police there not carry any slugs for the shotgun anymore?
Post by: Matthew Carberry on December 30, 2007, 01:19:36 PM
Question, though.
We all know that a higher caliber, one of the "safari" calibers or 45-70 would be best to have for a tiger. Even .308 if that's all they have.
But how many average SFPD cops know WHERE to shoot at a large predator to bring it down? Or could likely aim well enough to hit it if they did?
And do police there not carry any slugs for the shotgun anymore?
We all know that a higher caliber, one of the "safari" calibers or 45-70 would be best to have for a tiger. Even .308 if that's all they have.
But how many average SFPD cops know WHERE to shoot at a large predator to bring it down? Or could likely aim well enough to hit it if they did?
And do police there not carry any slugs for the shotgun anymore?
"Shooting for the chest" should be sufficient for a tiger, same as anything else. It's not trying to hit an elephants brain, just tear up the heart/lung area.
Post by: Tuco on December 30, 2007, 02:41:53 PM
Center of mass +/-
Post by: Manedwolf on December 30, 2007, 05:14:10 PM
Post by: m1911owner on January 01, 2008, 06:15:25 PM
If I was heading to a zoo for an escaped animal and all I had was a cruiser shotgun as a long gun, I'd sure as hell want some slugs along, too.
That begs an interesting question--Why the blazes were these cops running around a zoo with potentially five loose tigers, without their riot shotguns??!!!
Edit to add: I'm guessing the answer to that question is related to the answer to the question of why their first action upon observing the tiger attacking one of the boys was to order the tiger to stop.
Post by: gunsmith on January 01, 2008, 08:25:51 PM
That I would get the pelt for the coolest bed spread in SF!