Post by: Ben on December 30, 2007, 08:35:53 AM
I'm not a big fan of additives, but doing research I've come across two reasonable sounding suggestions for getting rid of noise / deposits without removing engine parts.
The first is to substitute a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil for a quart of oil about 500-1000 miles before the next oil change. The solvent properties are supposed to clean things up and you then do your regular oil change and noise is reduced or gone.
The second is using something called SeaFoam, which I'd not heard of before. Same basic steps as above, except you put it in and drive for no more than 30 minutes, then immediately do an oil change (apparently this stuff is really thin and solventy (if that's a word)).
Has anyone used either of these, or something else entirely with positive results? Whatever I try, I want something that I just try once as a "flush". I'm not convinced regular use of additives is beneficial to any engine condition.
Post by: grislyatoms on December 30, 2007, 09:10:35 AM
Worst case being in my Grandma's car; she hadn't changed the oil in years. They added some MMO, it did well for a couple of days but then the oil light started flickering and then came on solid.
The MMO broke down such a volume of grime and deposits that the oil became so viscous the oil pump couldn't pump it! IIRC, they had to flush the block with kerosene several times to get all the gunk out.
I have heard other stories about it doing wonders, and some stories about it just being ATF suspended (or emulsified, or whatever) with oil. ATF being, as I understand it, just a detergent.
Personally, the only additives I use are STP oil treatment every oil change and a yearly bottle of injector cleaner. I dislike putting stuff in there that doesn't belong.
Post by: Ben on December 30, 2007, 09:22:44 AM
Quote
I dislike putting stuff in there that doesn't belong.
I agree.The reason I wouldn't be too worried (I think) about Marvel, is that I've always been meticulous about changing oil by the 3K mile mark and using good filters. I think the carbon deposits on the Isuzu 3.5L are supposed to be partially due to extremely small lube pathways. That indicates to me it wouldn't take much to block stuff, but there also wouldn't be a lot of gunk loosening up and floating around in the oil.
Post by: grislyatoms on December 30, 2007, 09:44:30 AM
Post by: mgdavis on December 30, 2007, 09:53:23 AM
Post by: Ben on December 30, 2007, 10:28:25 AM
Post by: Parker Dean on December 30, 2007, 11:38:50 AM
) there is a product they like that's made specifically to clean inside engines. It should be noted these things DO work but may cause the build-ups to release in chunks that can clog or restrict an oil pickup screen and cause even worse problems. I don't recommend trying to clean inside an engine with solvents for that very reason.http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php
Post by: CNYCacher on December 30, 2007, 02:02:39 PM
Post by: Tuco on December 30, 2007, 02:39:51 PM
My test is to get a heavily deposited engine part (oil filler cap, dipstick, drain plug) and dip it into the snake oil in question. Kerosene doesn't do much. Sea foam works quicker than MMO.
I have a number of well used, low cost, low tech vehicles. One thing I do to keep the lower end shiny is occasionally run a quart of transmission fluid along with the balance of crankcase oil. (I read your post, I do it anyway) No trailering or heavy loads, just an hour of easy highway speeds. Disperses the gunk and grit. Then do a regular oil change. This is regular procedure, so if you've got serious rattles, try the following.
If the trooper is really grungy (or if you're not the original owner) remove the oil pan and clean it out. Look at (remove?) the oil pump pickup and clean out any screens. A clogged intake screen can starve the pump and top end of oil, leading to death rattle. Be sure to have a new pan gasket on hand, and gently clean the mating surfaces. (I like Brake Cleaner, but it gets $$$)
ALSO, my Rover is really finicky when it comes to filters. It hates the popular orange filters, but runs great on with a Wix. Some motors develop different pressures.
Speaking of pressures, check and clean all the breathers, vents and valves (e.g. Positive Crankcase Ventilation valve).
Finally, in the Grey cold north, I go to a thinner oil in the winter (5W-30). I've also heard that synthetics are easier to pump.
User a good filter (try a Mobil-One, and don't feel bad about running through two changes [8000 miles]) Clean your sump and intake (after running the snake oil) and let's hear what happens.
Post by: Hawkmoon on December 30, 2007, 05:50:40 PM
A Trooper with valve lifters? The Trooper isn't overhead cam? (I'm asking -- don't know anything about foreign iron.) Even if you really have lifters, how many miles are on the engine? And are you certain the clicking is really the lifters and not worn rocker arms or something up at or near the top of the head? If you have hydraulic lifters, they're buried down inside the block. It's not common to hear lifters ticking.
{EDIT} Just re-read the original post. 65,000 miles and you have lifter noise? Hardly plausible. I once worked with a female engineer type who ran her company car for 80,000+ miles with NO oil changes, and amazingly it didn't seem to have done much damage. If you have been at all conscientious about regular oil changes, it's difficult to think there's a lifter problem at 65,000 miles.
Post by: Ben on December 30, 2007, 06:26:45 PM
If somebody here has other ideas of what this might be, I'm by no means a mechanical expert -- this just sounds like valve tapping and the search info seemed to bear it out.
Edited to add: Just as an example of what I'm seeing on the interweb (l think lash adjusters are tied into lifters -- or not?):
Engine noise: Ticking noise from the top of 3.2L V6 engine may be due to hydraulic lash adjuster failure caused by varnish deposits and using 0W-30 Mobil I synthetic oil has been successful in cleaning them. (1997-earlier)
Post by: CNYCacher on December 31, 2007, 12:24:19 AM
Never saw any type of chemistry take care of them.
Post by: BobR on December 31, 2007, 04:29:34 AM
bob
Post by: Tuco on December 31, 2007, 11:37:52 AM
ptft pft ptft pft ptft pft ptft pft ptft pft
and can sound like a lifter.
Run the snake oil. It won't hurt, 'tis cheap - won't help cracked exhaust manifolds.
Post by: Tallpine on December 31, 2007, 11:43:28 AM
Quote
A cracked exhaust manifold will go...
ptft pft ptft pft ptft pft ptft pft ptft pft
and can sound like a lifter.
ptft pft ptft pft ptft pft ptft pft ptft pft
and can sound like a lifter.
Come to think of it ... so can a leaking "doughnut" on one side between the manifold and exhaust pipe (I'm thinking older GM design here, so forgive me if it doesn't apply to a Zoo-Sue)
Post by: Brad Johnson on December 31, 2007, 12:09:08 PM
Marvel Myster Oil is okay, though I'm not a big fan of using more than a few ounces. It, ATF, and machine oil are all equally effective. A lot of people swear by replacing one quart of oil with ATF or MMO to clean up a gunky engine. It works, but I'm not so sure of the side-effects. Given the small tolerances and extreme pressures involved, not to mention the large repair bills should the cure be worse than the disease, make me leery of pouring anything but engine oil in the fill tube.
You can run Redline synthetic oil. Being a group V synthetic it has solvent properties that dino-based and Group IV synthetics don't have. And it's ALL engine oil, not something you just mix in and that might have questionable effects on the lubricity of your engine oil. It will slowly, but certainly, clean up the innards of your Trooper. Do a full oil change, then change the filter and top it off every 1K for five or six thou. That should have the indside of your engine all sparkly clean again. Plus, it will be easier to crank in the cold.
Brad
Post by: ilbob on January 01, 2008, 09:33:48 AM
I have also heard good stories from people who allow the quick lube places to use engine cleaning stuff, and even good stories from people who drain the oil from their engines, replace it with diesel, run it for a while, drain, replace filter, and put in regular oil.
My guess is all these things will remove at least some gunk from the innards of your engine. I have also heard that some people with severe gunk problems have made it worse by loosening up the stuff that is sitting on the inside of their valve covers or settled in the bottom of their oil pan, and some people have advocated taking these off to check for deposits before trying these kind of things.
Post by: Ben on January 01, 2008, 09:54:00 AM
I really like Brad's idea about trying the synthetic oil. I might try that first and if I don't hear any difference, I can work my way up to MMO, SeaFoam, and if all else fails, taking things apart. Or maybe just leaving them -- my one buddy has been driving around with the ticking for over 3 years and has 120,000 miles on his. Seems to run fine except for the annoying noise. I'm just a worry wart that if there's noise, it means something needs some lubrication.
Post by: Art Eatman on January 01, 2008, 10:59:10 AM
"Rislone" was a frequently used answer for that particular problem. Do an oil/filter change, and put in one quart of Rislone in with the other oil.
Post by: Tallpine on January 01, 2008, 12:12:40 PM
Quote
Or maybe just leaving them -- my one buddy has been driving around with the ticking for over 3 years and has 120,000 miles on his.
Actually, I was going to recommend ear plugs but decided maybe I shouldn't be such a smart-*expletive deleted*ss
Post by: Sylvilagus Aquaticus on January 01, 2008, 01:03:28 PM
Marvel Oil seems to be a little heavier viscosity than Rislone but works just as well from my vantage point. Used to dose my rotary engined Mazda with it every now and again. Both are pretty good at de-sticking sticky things, such as small engines that have been sitting too long.
Regards,
Rabbit.
Post by: mfree on January 01, 2008, 05:04:36 PM
Post by: Brad Johnson on January 02, 2008, 09:23:44 AM
Quote
I really like Brad's idea about trying the synthetic oil.
Just make sure it's Redline. Royal Purple, as well as most other recognizeable "full" synthetic, are Group IV oils and don't have the solvent properties of Redline.
Also, beware that most retail-ready oils labeled synthetic are actually Group III (dino) based with a synthetic additive package. Castrol was the first to do it. Mobil sued them, claiming that a sythetic additive package in dino oil does not a true synthetic make. Castrol won and has continued the practice. Interestingly enough, Mobil, who was all hot and bothered about Castrol's little end-around, is now pulling the same stunt with many of their "sythetic" oils (including their most popular, Mobil 1 10w-30). Many manufacturers have come full circle and again have a Group IV based oil they are labeling "Full Synthetic".
If you'd like to learn more head over to www.bobistheoilguy.com
Brad
Post by: Ben on April 26, 2008, 01:19:09 PM
I ended up topping off the oil with around 3/4 quart of Marvel Mystery Oil and driving it like I stole it for about 400 miles. Now I can only barely hear any noise with my hood up and my head in the engine compartment. Before, I could easily hear it from inside with my window down.
I just drained the old oil and switched from dino to 5-30WT synthetic, so I'm gonna monitor the situation and see if the ticking stays away now.
Post by: seeker_two on April 26, 2008, 03:20:00 PM
Anyone here ever try RxP?......Is it any better than the B12 Chemtool that I put in my gas every oil change?...
Post by: Sylvilagus Aquaticus on June 22, 2008, 10:37:08 AM
It does seem to work a lot better on engines with more miles, but even on the wife's new truck it does give a
'seat of the pants' increase that i can feel.
To me, it's just about the best 7 bucks I spend for an additive, especially since we have to run a 10% ethanol blend around here. The B12 is great for dirty fuel systems/carbs/injectors because it degums all the orfices, whereas RXP is active in the combustion process.
Regards,
Rabbit.
Post by: seeker_two on June 22, 2008, 12:42:22 PM
Now, I'll use both every oil change (RxP on one tank, B12 in the next)....
Thanks, Rabbit...
Post by: Sylvilagus Aquaticus on June 25, 2008, 06:26:41 PM
Told you the stuff works.
Regards,
Rabbit.