Post by: RevDisk on July 15, 2005, 04:38:36 PM
It caught my attention because there was a GIANT stack of books being burned while some pompous idiot commented, "What is this book teaching our children!" Hey buddy, maybe you could be teaching your children something better than book burning. It was surrealistic. Parents standing behind their kids, arms crossed, as their kids looked uncomfortable ripping pages out of books and tossing them into the fire. "Witchcraft is evil, and this book corrupts the mind of children!" On and on.
Ok. Maybe CNN is just trying to be fair. After showing footage of the book burnings, various religious 'leaders' expressing their opinion, they rolled out two speakers. One pro-Harry, one anti-Harry. They BOTH slammed pagan religions, and expressed their scorn on such groups. The anchor lady wasn't exactly showing any lack of bias either.
Liberal media, my rear end! I've seen right wing fanatics treat pagan religions with higher respect.
The book series has virtually nothing to do with modern pagan groups. It's a piece of fiction. It's not pagan-propaganda.
It's a story about a kid screwed over by nearly everyone. For reasons outside his control, a group of people are trying to kill him, the govt is screwing with him, and the adult "good guys" treat him worse than his enemies trying to kill him. The head of his school uses him as a pawn, while flat out torturing the poor kid. Dispite all this, he acts with a large amount of personal honour and manages to overcome.
The book has a very positive view on self-defense, good values, and the value of friendship. And of course, people want to burn it. In my personal view, any book that pisses off that many people and causes many people to burn it deserves a place on my bookshelf.
Post by: Sindawe on July 15, 2005, 04:45:41 PM
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The book series has virtually nothing to do with modern pagan groups.
Paganism = Witchcraft = Satanism. If it don't come from I do have to wonder what will go through those kids minds when they someday see footage of the Nazi book burnings, and think back on what their parents did.
Post by: Standing Wolf on July 15, 2005, 05:25:16 PM
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I do have to wonder what will go through those kids minds when they someday see footage of the Nazi book burnings, and think back on what their parents did.
An awful lot of parents seem to think kids are dumb.
Post by: P95Carry on July 15, 2005, 07:17:45 PM
Post by: Perd Hapley on July 15, 2005, 08:14:34 PM
Post by: Winston Smith on July 15, 2005, 08:55:45 PM
Post by: RevDisk on July 15, 2005, 10:35:11 PM
Quote from: P95Carry
Chris - ''there is no understanding folks'' - well, some anyways!
I wish I could have taped it. I'd play it anytime someone asked me why I CCW. "Because there are crazy wackos out there." Quote
An awful lot of parents seem to think kids are dumb.
Ayup. From the looks on the faces of the kids, I think it's going to backfire on a lot of parents there. They looked like they knew they were being forced to do something wrong.Quote
Paganism = Witchcraft = Satanism. If it don't come from , then its EVIL and must be expunged from the face of the Earth.
I noticed. BTDT
Post by: Preacherman on July 16, 2005, 07:05:41 AM
Oddly enough (to many of my Christian friends) one of my better friends is a Pagan high priest, duly ordained and active, leading his own congregation. He and I often chuckle at the bemused looks we both get, from his associates and from mine. We respect each other, like each other, and pray for one another in our own ways. I daresay that at at the end of our lives, we'll find out who's right!
Post by: RevDisk on July 16, 2005, 04:56:17 PM
Quote from: Preacherman
Oddly enough (to many of my Christian friends) one of my better friends is a Pagan high priest, duly ordained and active, leading his own congregation. He and I often chuckle at the bemused looks we both get, from his associates and from mine. We respect each other, like each other, and pray for one another in our own ways. I daresay that at at the end of our lives, we'll find out who's right!
The Preacherman and the Pagan high priest walk into a bar. The bartender says, "What is this, a joke?" ;pQuote
I also thoroughly enjoy the childrens literature of C. S. Lewis, which is overtly Christian in its themes and orientation, and value it highly.
I recently saw the trailer for The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. I admit, I got misty eyed. Stunning visuals. I have hopes the movie will do the book justice. I'm rather a fan of some of C.S. Lewis' work.
Post by: InfidelSerf on July 17, 2005, 09:07:36 AM
I have more "pagan/athiestic" friends than I have outwardly Christian friends. I sin. Yet I try not to sin at the same time.
I am human like all the rest of us and I make mistakes, make poor judgment calls and poor choices.
Yet I also choose to reflect on all my thoughts and choices and ask God for guidance in everything I do.
I have my parents to thank for taking me to church as a child and ensuring I at least learned the worldview by which they chose to live by.
I admire my mother more than anyone and learned more about what it takes to be a good person from her than any other source including church.
However in my teens I began to rebel, party, consume drugs and alcohol and doubt ..nay contemplate the existance of God and the need for an understanding of a faith. During that time my parents didn't force me to attend church. Just urged me at certain times to rethink my choices.
The point is our parents are the ones that should be making those decisions of protection and guidance in our lives.. Once we are of legal entity age. Then their job is over and they can only hope they did a good job.
My parents completed their job by the time I was 11.. and allowed me to make my own choices (although they fought me on many of them)
What do you know I grew up to be a stable and rational being. And in the long run I discovered that the only "worldview" that made sense to me was the word of God and the teachings of his son.. who he sent down here to atone for all our sins.
I don't think people that do not believe what I believe as evil or doomed. But regardless of your views everyone has to admit that their is a constant battle of good and evil taking place over our world. Call the lead characters what you want.. and ask for help or don't ask from who ever you want. My job is to live my life the to the best of my abilities while trying to reflect the teachings Christ brought to us, thanks to the love our creator has for us. And then when someone asks me why my life is so good ro why I am the way I am.. I'll be more than happy to explain to them my beliefs and why they work for me.
So I feel sorry for the parents and children that think destroying someone elses creative view on that eternal battle is the only way to protect themselves from the evil being described.
Reading a book about witches and dragons or wizardry is not going to make you a wizard or want to be one. Unless you have been raised to be directly influenced by everything you read or are told to think a certain way... not to think for yourself and trust your innerself.
I was never told to think a certain way... I was simply instructed by my parents to read, read, and read some more.. and then learn to make up my own mind on what made sense or felt right. Interesting how a "moral compass" develops in us when we are young.. regardless of what we read or see on tv.
But a child that doesn't read.. and just accepts what others tell them what to think will be doomed to serfdom and being a good little sheep.
My dad read to us and then encouraged us to read lots of scifi books. I never grew up thinking I would be an interpanetary mercenary, or evolve into a fuzzy alien being.
I'm not a fan of the Harry Porry series.. but not because its about wizardry. But I would encourage ANY child to read them because reading PERIOD is the key to enlightenment and a highre understanding of yourself and the world around us.
Post by: jefnvk on July 17, 2005, 09:41:21 AM
Post by: K Frame on July 17, 2005, 10:57:34 AM
Harry Pothead and the Half Smoked Blunt...
Post by: grampster on July 17, 2005, 02:22:30 PM
+1. Your post pretty much mirrors my experience. My mother was a stern disciplinarian and quintisential Catholic mother (with some Jewish tendencies, if I have figured out my roots.), so I learned rebellion from her, but came to understand reasoning as a result. My dad taught me about the wonder of creation and the value in reading books.
As a result I came to many of the same conclusions as you. In fact, just about 10 minutes ago I was reading a couple chapters of "A Purpose Driven Life" and wondering why at age 61 and 7/12 it is taking so long for me to put aside my rebellion and accept what I truly know I am.
I was raised on science fiction, swodplay and sorcery and all sorts of other kinds of fiction. Maybe the only bad thing that resulted is I sometimes enjoy the fantasy world more than I do reality. At the same time I have a firm grip on reality. Last time I looked I am not consorting with demons or worshiping rocks either.
Post by: Preacherman on July 17, 2005, 02:48:06 PM
Post by: RevDisk on July 18, 2005, 02:05:37 AM
Quote from: Preacherman
Hmmm... I must admit, my pagan priest friend's offer to "fix me up" with one or more of his priestesses looks interesting!
Bwahaha. A pagan priest, attempting to corrupt a Christian (Catholic?) priest? NAW! So it ain't so! Did he take ya up a mountain and try to 'make another offer' as well? Cough cough.
Post by: Justin on July 18, 2005, 03:52:46 PM
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An awful lot of parents seem to think kids are dumb.
There are probably two reasons for this:1) The parents themselves are idiots.
2) It's much easier to order around your intellectual inferiors because "I know what's best."
Post by: brimic on July 18, 2005, 04:09:43 PM
Post by: Perd Hapley on July 18, 2005, 06:01:16 PM
Unlike everyone else on this thread, you don't want these criminals thrown in jail?
Stinkin' liberal!
Post by: Justin on July 18, 2005, 07:00:39 PM
But nowhere in the 1st amendment does it say they have a right to be protected from being mercilessly ridiculed for their stupidity.
/Ain't America Grand?
Post by: brimic on July 18, 2005, 08:04:43 PM
Post by: RevDisk on July 18, 2005, 10:11:58 PM
Quote from: brimic
Hmmm. If they paid for the books, its no different than burning a flag, except maybe a quite a bit less inflammatory. Free speech protects religious fanatics as well as it protects left wing nutjobs. Pretty novel concept isn't it?
Who said anything about free speech not applying to religious fanatics? Everyone is entitled to an opinion. No one is entitled to force me to like their opinion. What they did was tasteless, disturbing, pointless and evil. But it wasn't illegal as far as I know.
Post by: Iapetus on July 19, 2005, 12:01:02 PM
Then of course there's Jack "Role-playing games teach you real magic (or make you kill yourself)" Chick
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp
Jack "The Devil owns the music industry" Chick
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0034/0034_01.asp
Post by: Sindawe on July 19, 2005, 12:21:25 PM
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Then of course there's Jack "Role-playing games teach you real magic (or make you kill yourself)" Chick
Gee, none of the DM I played with ever looked like THAT. And no matter how intricate the verbal components, none of the spells MY clerics cast ever worked in real life, even when the characters alignment matched my own. I've been CHEATED! I should sue TSR for FRAUD!!!
Post by: Perd Hapley on July 19, 2005, 06:19:52 PM
You mean burning books is evil?
I like how the evil, goth, witch-priestess in the Chick tract is called, of all things, Ms. Frost.
Post by: RevDisk on July 19, 2005, 11:00:00 PM
Quote from: Sindawe
Gee, none of the DM I played with ever looked like THAT. And no matter how intricate the verbal components, none of the spells MY clerics cast ever worked in real life, even when the characters alignment matched my own. I've been CHEATED! I should sue TSR for FRAUD!!!
You probably were using the wrong edition... Quote
You mean burning books is evil?
I like how the evil, goth, witch-priestess in the Chick tract is called, of all things, Ms. Frost.
Yes, us witches secretly seed D&D games looking for recruits. Or weak-minded fools to hang and make it look like a suicide. I like how the evil, goth, witch-priestess in the Chick tract is called, of all things, Ms. Frost.
And yes, I believe burning books is evil. Just my personal opinion.
Post by: Sindawe on July 19, 2005, 11:21:53 PM
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You probably were using the wrong edition...
*SNORT* Anything beyond AD&D rules edition is "Sugered Up Fairy Gag Juice" suitable only for posers who would not know a +5 Intelligent Vorpal sword from a dull table knife. Lolth take them all and be done with it. :neener:
Post by: brimic on July 20, 2005, 01:03:20 AM
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And yes, I believe burning books is evil. Just my personal opinion.
I aint going to argue with you that the fundies are off their rockers , but burning books is evil? Is a book any different than a pile of wood chips, lumber, or birch logs all of which burn real nicely? Are books imbued with some sort of mystical quality by a benevolent all- powerful creator that makes them sacred?
Post by: Sindawe on July 20, 2005, 01:19:32 AM
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Are books imbued with some sort of mystical quality by a benevolent all- powerful creator that makes them sacred?
Yes. Books are repositories of knowledge, wisdom and culture. Via books, those who once lived and are now dust can still speak to us in the present of their hopes, their follies, their dreams and their aspirations for the future. Via books, we can learn of the paths travelled by our fore fathers, and avoid the pitfalls they stumbled into. By burning them, we not only disregard the lives of effort and learning they record, but also our history AND our posterity. A great tragedy and loss for our kind was the burning of the library of Alexandria. And to put it very bluntly...THOSE WHO BURN BOOKS, BURN PEOPLE.
Post by: Guest on July 20, 2005, 01:19:37 AM
Post by: brimic on July 20, 2005, 01:25:07 AM
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Yes. Books are repositories of knowledge, wisdom and culture
So could a McDonalds Big Mac, but that isn't going to prevent me from eating it, they will make more.Quote
A great tragedy and loss for our kind was the burning of the library of Alexandria.
I agree. Isn't the printing press a wonderful invention?
Post by: Iapetus on July 20, 2005, 07:45:01 AM
Quote from: Sindawe
Quote
Then of course there's Jack "Role-playing games teach you real magic (or make you kill yourself)" Chick
Gee, none of the DM I played with ever looked like THAT. And no matter how intricate the verbal components, none of the spells MY clerics cast ever worked in real life, even when the characters alignment matched my own. I've been CHEATED! I should sue TSR for FRAUD!!!* = Satanists
** = Satanists
*** = Satanists
**** = guess what?
***** = surprisingly, not Satanists (but still going to Hell anyway).
Post by: Sindawe on July 20, 2005, 10:02:07 AM
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...and usually with black hair too - what's that about?
Black is synonymous with darkness and evil in western culture. So if one wishes to make cast a character as a badguy, dress/color them black.
Post by: Perd Hapley on July 20, 2005, 10:29:27 AM
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THOSE WHO BURN BOOKS, BURN PEOPLE
You can't be serious. If this were true, the book-burners in question would unquestionably be bombing abortion centers rather than messing about with piddly nonsense like Harry Potter.
Post by: RevDisk on July 22, 2005, 03:01:02 AM
Quote from: Sindawe
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You probably were using the wrong edition...
*SNORT* Anything beyond AD&D rules edition is "Sugered Up Fairy Gag Juice" suitable only for posers who would not know a +5 Intelligent Vorpal sword from a dull table knife. Lolth take them all and be done with it. :neener:For instance, find a mostly female coven, convince them to play "D&D, Drinking Edition" (yea, we made a drinking game out of D&D), and videotape the drunken witches trying to figure out how to properly cast a spell using dice instead of their normal accessories.
Quote
I aint going to argue with you that the fundies are off their rockers , but burning books is evil? Is a book any different than a pile of wood chips, lumber, or birch logs all of which burn real nicely? Are books imbued with some sort of mystical quality by a benevolent all- powerful creator that makes them sacred?
Yep. Yep. Yep. In their respective order, of course. Any other questions?Quote
Thats another thing I "like" about the Chick tracts - how everyone who disagrees with his point of view (atheists, evolutionists, Pagans*, Bhuddists**, Catholics***, Masons****, preachers who haven't tried hard enough to spread the word*****) are invariably drawn as snarling, foul-tempred, foul-mouthed, bastards/bitches (and usually with black hair too - what's that about?).
I always found Chick tracts pretty funny myself. Doubly any that specifically insulted activities I enjoy.