Post by: Bigjake on January 31, 2008, 06:07:49 PM
*No, I'm not voting Paul, his minions have made it very clear to me that my name is worth too much to associate with such idiots.
Post by: charby on January 31, 2008, 06:13:21 PM
Post by: Sergeant Bob on January 31, 2008, 06:17:13 PM
Or maybe not.
Post by: Manedwolf on January 31, 2008, 06:20:59 PM
I mean, I don't like Romney, but McCain was almost sadistic in how angrily overconfident he was being...downright mean, as if he was enjoying tormenting the one he was sure he'd beat. In a scary way. The man constantly switches from Happy McCain to Mean McCain, even as a commenter said, you never know which you'll see at any appearance.
I don't like the idea of someone with that just below the surface having the launch codes, you know?
Post by: Boomhauer on January 31, 2008, 06:32:09 PM
He's even got Cthulhucare!
Check this out...
http://lolthulhu.com/
Yeah, I'm tired and fed up with this race. I'm sure as hell not voting for McCain- might as well vote Democrat in that case...
And, yeah, seriously, I will write in Cthulhu for prez...
Post by: Tecumseh on January 31, 2008, 07:38:21 PM
Post by: Finch on January 31, 2008, 07:58:56 PM
Post by: Silver Bullet on January 31, 2008, 08:06:50 PM
Quote
*No, I'm not voting Paul, his minions have made it very clear to me that my name is worth too much to associate with such idiots.
Anybody who would vote on the basis of not liking some of a candidate's followers is probably going to throw away his vote anyway.
Post by: Parker Dean on January 31, 2008, 08:54:11 PM
Post by: seeker_two on February 01, 2008, 01:21:59 AM
....I'll find a third-party candidate who most closely represents my views and vote for him/her. In 2004, it was Michael Peroutka (Constitution Party). This year, it might be Ron Paul (who I'm voting for in the Texas primary). It might be someone else......
...either way, the Republicans will know where they have to go to get my vote back....
Post by: LAK on February 01, 2008, 01:52:33 AM
And like Sergeant Bob, I would rather see Hillary than McCain for the same reason and others.
---------------------------------
http://searchronpaul.com
http://ussliberty.org/oldindex.html
http://www.gtr5.com
http://ssunitedstates.org
Post by: stevelyn on February 01, 2008, 03:20:05 AM
Post by: RealGun on February 01, 2008, 04:25:35 AM
Quote
*No, I'm not voting Paul, his minions have made it very clear to me that my name is worth too much to associate with such idiots.
I agree but think that is a terrible way to start a political thread, poking everyone with a stick before we even get started. If you are simply anticipating that the Paulistas will leave fly dirt all over your thread, I can sympathize.
Personally, it is not over. McCain makes Romney look good. Romney may be a lot of things, but he is not a Democrat.
For gun rights, it is the Senate that matters most in any case.
Post by: coppertales on February 01, 2008, 05:59:29 AM
Post by: Paddy on February 01, 2008, 06:21:56 AM
McCain v. Obama is truly a nightmare.
Post by: Manedwolf on February 01, 2008, 06:26:05 AM
How is everybody so sure the Dems will nominate Hillary? It's looking more and more like (barf) Obama.
McCain v. Obama is truly a nightmare.
McCain v. Obama is truly a nightmare.
Because Obama just decided to pick up Edwards' "poverty" banner that got Edwards rejected.
Americans might be misguided at times, but they still hate socialism in general. Not going to fly. He's got the hardcore support of the illegals groups and some industry-strangling unions, but that's about it.
More people are seeing beyond the smile and realizing that he's got a giant led-sign RAISE TAXES hovering behind it.
Also, he keeps saying that he'll meet with dictators who would use him as a prop, and even the slowest Americans are starting to realize how dumb that would be.
Post by: Paddy on February 01, 2008, 06:49:10 AM
And Obama will expand an already bloated federal government-exactly the wrong way to go in a debtor nation. Our standard of living would surely drop significantly.
It looks bleak.
Post by: Firethorn on February 01, 2008, 07:05:59 AM
Of course, I don't think that it was a very good test, as a number of options were nearly identical.
For example, question 5:
Quote
What do you think should be done -- if anything -- in the wake of the near collapse of companies specializing in subprime mortgages, and the foreclosures of homes?
Among the various answers, here's two:
Nothing. The Federal Reserve Bank shouldn't be "bailing out" mortgage lenders.
The Federal Reserve Bank shouldn't be "bailing out" mortgage lenders.
on firearms, two answers that I think are a little close for a simple true/false measure:
The Second Amendment is primarily about tyranny and self-defense, not hunting. Citizens must be able to defend themselves from government, if need be, and from all threats to our lives and property. I oppose gun control based on geography. I opposed banning assault weapons and opposed the Brady Bill.
I believe law abiding citizens have the right to keep and bear arms. I oppose bans on assault rifles, ammunition and ammunition magazines. I oppose litigation against gun manufacturers for crimes committed by third parties. I support background checks at gun shows. I believe that gun control is a proven failure in fighting crime.
While you can object to the background check part of the second measure, to be honest it's a minor issue to me, depending on how it plays out. Something like having a FFL perform quick checks via the existing system* even for private party sales wouldn't be too hard.
Also, there's nothing on balancing the budget, fiscal restraint, etc...
*Yes, NICS can and should be improved in speed, reliability, accuracy, and ease of making corrections.
Post by: longeyes on February 01, 2008, 07:42:37 AM
We're having a run of unusually bad Emperors. Hole up and keep your powder dry.
Post by: Bigjake on February 01, 2008, 07:59:29 AM
Quote
I agree but think that is a terrible way to start a political thread, poking everyone with a stick before we even get started. If you are simply anticipating that the Paulistas will leave fly dirt all over your thread, I can sympathize.
There would be Paulista drones crapping on the carpet no matter what. Much like bad weather.
Quote
Anybody who would vote on the basis of not liking some of a candidate's followers is probably going to throw away his vote anyway.
Not really.
A candidate's supporters are a very good lithmus test. Illegals like Hillary as do commies and the anti war left (and all sorts of other assorted slime). I can't stand any of them, and therefore won't agree with the person they are supporting.
Same for Paulians, to a lesser degree, which is the saddest part about them, because the Libertarians have more than a couple good ideas.
Post by: Bigjake on February 01, 2008, 08:01:11 AM
There are times when a sane man looks for a monastery or, if hornier, an island. This may be one of those times.
We're having a run of unusually bad Emperors. Hole up and keep your powder dry.
We're having a run of unusually bad Emperors. Hole up and keep your powder dry.
Thats what I'm thinking.
Post by: Paddy on February 01, 2008, 08:58:23 AM
Post by: Werewolf on February 01, 2008, 09:16:07 AM
How is everybody so sure the Dems will nominate Hillary? It's looking more and more like (barf) Obama.
McCain v. Obama is truly a nightmare.
McCain v. Obama is truly a nightmare.
All I can say to that is to ask all you guys who are always saying we can vote the bastards out is, how can we do that when the two party system of late almost guarantees that we really don't have a choice except between bastard and bastard, turd and *expletive deleted*che, moron and...
Oh well - you get the idea.
Post by: Werewolf on February 01, 2008, 09:23:13 AM
Quote
Americans might be misguided at times, but they still hate socialism in general. Not going to fly. He's (re: Obama) got the hardcore support of the illegals groups and some industry-strangling unions, but that's about it.
Up until a couple of weeks ago I was of the same opinon - Americans still hate socialism. Now I'm not so sure.
I recently joined a shooters forum for Oklahomans. I was amazed at how much support Obama is getting from Okie shooters. Trying to talk 'em out of it was just asking for a flame war.
I've lived here in OK for 23 years and we're a RED state and have been since I came here. But OBAMA is getting support here and way more of it than I'd have imagined.
If Okies are supporting him it makes me wonder how soon hell is gonna freeze over (and if the weather the past couple of weeks is any indication it may not be too long from now).
Post by: Manedwolf on February 01, 2008, 09:32:05 AM
Quote
Americans might be misguided at times, but they still hate socialism in general. Not going to fly. He's (re: Obama) got the hardcore support of the illegals groups and some industry-strangling unions, but that's about it.
Up until a couple of weeks ago I was of the same opinon - Americans still hate socialism. Now I'm not so sure.
I recently joined a shooters forum for Oklahomans. I was amazed at how much support Obama is getting from Okie shooters. Trying to talk 'em out of it was just asking for a flame war.
I've lived here in OK for 23 years and we're a RED state and have been since I came here. But OBAMA is getting support here and way more of it than I'd have imagined.
If Okies are supporting him it makes me wonder how soon hell is gonna freeze over (and if the weather the past couple of weeks is any indication it may not be too long from now).
Unions, I'd bet.
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on February 01, 2008, 11:53:25 AM
Post by: CAnnoneer on February 01, 2008, 12:04:45 PM
Up until a couple of weeks ago I was of the same opinon - Americans still hate socialism. Now I'm not so sure.
I recently joined a shooters forum for Oklahomans. I was amazed at how much support Obama is getting from Okie shooters.
I recently joined a shooters forum for Oklahomans. I was amazed at how much support Obama is getting from Okie shooters.
It is possible that they support him not because they like socialism, but because they see him as an agent of change, in contrast to the others being viewed as DC aparatchiks.
Post by: Manedwolf on February 01, 2008, 12:06:16 PM
Up until a couple of weeks ago I was of the same opinon - Americans still hate socialism. Now I'm not so sure.
I recently joined a shooters forum for Oklahomans. I was amazed at how much support Obama is getting from Okie shooters.
I recently joined a shooters forum for Oklahomans. I was amazed at how much support Obama is getting from Okie shooters.
It is possible that they support him not because they like socialism, but because they see him as an agent of change, in contrast to the others being viewed as DC aparatchiks.
That sort infuriates me, because if you ask them what that change is...they can't say.
Post by: charby on February 01, 2008, 12:09:56 PM
Up until a couple of weeks ago I was of the same opinon - Americans still hate socialism. Now I'm not so sure.
I recently joined a shooters forum for Oklahomans. I was amazed at how much support Obama is getting from Okie shooters.
I recently joined a shooters forum for Oklahomans. I was amazed at how much support Obama is getting from Okie shooters.
It is possible that they support him not because they like socialism, but because they see him as an agent of change, in contrast to the others being viewed as DC aparatchiks.
That sort infuriates me, because if you ask them what that change is...they can't say.
Or anything not Bush
Post by: CAnnoneer on February 01, 2008, 12:12:29 PM
That sort infuriates me, because if you ask them what that change is...they can't say.
Some people are so pissed off about the status quo that they are almost ready to accept ANY change. Not a good thing that is, but there we have it.
Post by: Manedwolf on February 01, 2008, 12:14:21 PM
That sort infuriates me, because if you ask them what that change is...they can't say.
Some people are so pissed off about the status quo that they are almost ready to accept ANY change. Not a good thing that is, but there we have it.
I remind them that higher taxes or even nationalization of industries would be "change".
Also, Obama wants a national ban on concealed carry. Show that to the gun guys.
Post by: Silver Bullet on February 01, 2008, 08:45:17 PM
Quote
I can't stand any of them, and therefore won't agree with the person they are supporting.
Interesting !
Post by: seeker_two on February 02, 2008, 03:09:51 AM
....but, with McCain's Florida win putting the fear of God & Hillbama into many conservatives, I'm expecting to see Ron Paul's numbers jump up into the double-digits on Tuesday....maybe even winning a few states in "flyover country"......
Your thoughts?.....
Post by: seeker_two on February 02, 2008, 03:12:03 AM
I just took the 'test' here, and it pointed me towards McCain as the closest candidate.
Of course, I don't think that it was a very good test, as a number of options were nearly identical.
Of course, I don't think that it was a very good test, as a number of options were nearly identical.
I took the same test. It listed Paul as my first choice and McCain as my second.....
And I agree about the questions....esp. education and RKBA. They needed an RKBA option of "NO infringement of RKBA". But, what do you expect from Minnesota Public Radio....
Post by: Waitone on February 02, 2008, 11:53:03 AM
I wonder if we are not in one such situation.
Post by: Manedwolf on February 02, 2008, 12:43:54 PM
Just my humble opinion here.......
....but, with McCain's Florida win putting the fear of God & Hillbama into many conservatives, I'm expecting to see Ron Paul's numbers jump up into the double-digits on Tuesday....maybe even winning a few states in "flyover country"......
Your thoughts?.....
....but, with McCain's Florida win putting the fear of God & Hillbama into many conservatives, I'm expecting to see Ron Paul's numbers jump up into the double-digits on Tuesday....maybe even winning a few states in "flyover country"......
Your thoughts?.....
No. The Paulistas have pissed off too many people for people to even consider voting for him. Standing on street corners yelling that 9/11 was an inside job tends to do that.
Post by: Bogie on February 02, 2008, 01:21:02 PM
With the independent thinkers, this can be a very public danger... And with publicity, comes MORE danger... So you've got a very small, but VERY VISIBLE, group of guys slavering about Paul, who otherwise would be crafting their next Dalek costume... Or dressing up as a giant stuffed toy and doing unspeakable things to other giant stuffed toys. And I'm not even going to MENTION another subculture of strangeness...
Post by: MrRezister on February 02, 2008, 10:42:31 PM
Post by: Bigjake on February 03, 2008, 03:02:29 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on February 03, 2008, 06:07:47 AM
Because if that happens, your wallet will be sucked dry if you're a successful person, the country will become an unrecognizeable socialist hell, and your guns will be illegal.
Enjoy.
Post by: Werewolf on February 03, 2008, 07:22:59 AM
If you're going to "write in" Paul, I hope you'll enjoy your conscience when that causes us to get a President Hillary, President Obama, or a team of one of them as president and the other as vice.
Because if that happens, your wallet will be sucked dry if you're a successful person, the country will become an unrecognizeable socialist hell, and your guns will be illegal.
Enjoy.
True - if - and this is a really big IF - the DEMS get solid control of both the house and senate. Other wise...Because if that happens, your wallet will be sucked dry if you're a successful person, the country will become an unrecognizeable socialist hell, and your guns will be illegal.
Enjoy.
The presidency really doesn't have as much power as most seem to attribute to it.
ASIDE: A HILLBAMA or OBAMHILL presidency wouldn't be fun even if the Republicans can wrest control of the congress back from the Dems.
Post by: Bogie on February 03, 2008, 08:18:27 AM
Then, six months after they're in office, she has Obama whacked, and blames it on a 19 year old kluckerboy with a 72 IQ, who gets a real deer in the headlights look for the whole week that the trial lasts, until he mysteriously hangs himself in his cell... All civil rights are suspended, and door-to-door gun nut conspiracy searches ensue...
Dang, but it's fun playing "what's the worst that could happen?"
Post by: Manedwolf on February 03, 2008, 08:24:19 AM
And Obama, beholden to Daley, would probably just give Daley and his goons the run of the White House by appointing his puppets to the cabinet, just as Illinois' governor is a Daley puppet. Chicago as a model for the entire United States.
Post by: Werewolf on February 03, 2008, 03:00:39 PM
Quote
Chicago as a model for the entire United States.
OKAY...That picture actually caused a cold shiver to run up my spine. Freakin' scary man - freakin' scary.
Post by: RocketMan on February 03, 2008, 05:20:30 PM
Quote
McCain gets GOP nod, then what??
No real difference. Hillary still gets elected.
Edited to add:
I should have mentioned that Hillary's election will not make me happy. She is...well, evil is the nicest thing I can say about her.
In fact, there is no one remaining in the race on either side that I could vote for in the general election.
Post by: Bogie on February 03, 2008, 05:28:42 PM
A cross between Abe Lincoln, Ronald Reagan, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Millard Filmore (hey, nobody's perfect) could show up, and all we'd hear from much of the media is "He's a Republican - Vote for anyone but him!"
Remember too that a very significant number of people do not want to be disappointed. They want to back a winner! So they'll see if they can figure out who is going to win, and then they'll vote for that person.
You know, it's really sad that the shooting community has such a great number of online forums, and so many shooters active on them, and they can't figure out how to coordinate a political strategy for beans. They can argue amongst themselves very well...
Post by: seeker_two on February 03, 2008, 05:37:26 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millard_Filmore
I'd vote for him over McCain or Romney.....
Post by: Silver Bullet on February 03, 2008, 05:45:07 PM
Quote
See what I mean though?? You Paulians just can't help proclaiming from every rooftop (no matter how irrelevant), that YOU'RE VOTING "DR." PAUL.
I'M VOTING DR. PAUL !
You lied
; I proclaimed it from my computer room, nowhere near my rooftop. 
That is, I'm voting for Dr. Paul in the primaries. If he's not the Republican nominee, I'll be voting for whoever the Republican nominee is in the general election over Clinton
or Obama 
. There are Supreme Court appointments and AWBs to think about, after all. I think Romney (according to what I just read today over at TFL) and McCain might veto an AWB, but I'm sure Clinton and Obama will approve it, and probably push for it. I think McCain will certainly give us a more conservative Supreme Court appointee(s) than Clinton or Obama .What was Fillmore's position on RKBA ?
Post by: seeker_two on February 03, 2008, 06:54:09 PM
What was Fillmore's position on RKBA ?
He never promised to sign a AWB bill or close the gun show "loophole".....
Post by: Bogie on February 03, 2008, 07:47:28 PM
Oh... Wait a minute... Never mind...
Remember - Keep an open, but cynical mind, folks... And consider something: A lot of the negatives that people keep bringing up likely got their first publicity pushes from the democratic national committee...
I think that McCain or Romney will largely stay within the scope/guidelines of the Republican party - neither of them really strike me as mavericks - Guiliani worried me in that regard. Hence, knowing that I can vote for Hillary, Against Hillary, or For My Conscience, well... My conscience will be happy if we don't get a supreme court put in there by Hillary...
Post by: Tecumseh on February 03, 2008, 09:39:01 PM
Bogie: Who are you planning on voting for, if you don't mind sharing please tell us. You seem so anti-Paul but have not said who a better candidate would be. Who is a better friend to the 2nd amendment that is running for POTUS than Dr. Ron Paul?
Post by: Finch on February 03, 2008, 11:54:57 PM
I think that McCain or Romney will largely stay within the scope/guidelines of the Republican party
Which guidelines are we talking about? Pre-Bush or Post-Bush?
Post by: stevelyn on February 04, 2008, 04:01:46 AM
If you're going to "write in" Paul, I hope you'll enjoy your conscience when that causes us to get a President Hillary, President Obama, or a team of one of them as president and the other as vice.
Because if that happens, your wallet will be sucked dry if you're a successful person, the country will become an unrecognizeable socialist hell, and your guns will be illegal.
Enjoy.
Because if that happens, your wallet will be sucked dry if you're a successful person, the country will become an unrecognizeable socialist hell, and your guns will be illegal.
Enjoy.
Well........maybe the sooner we crash and burn the better. The Phoenix can't rise except out of the ashes.
Post by: Manedwolf on February 04, 2008, 04:21:03 AM
Post by: Bogie on February 04, 2008, 05:21:25 AM
Bush loudly proclaimed that he was eager to sign it. And then he called in a lot of favors to make sure it never happened.
I'm also not going to get into your student center debate society tactic of telling me that since I'm of the opinion that Paul cannot beat Hillary, I'm therefore anti-Paul. I like his platform, in general. I don't think we need to bug out of Iraq, because isolationism doesn't work. I like McCain on Iraq (altho I think we should actually do more), Huckabee on taxes, Paul on the 2nd amendment, and figuring that he'd be a sideshow as a president, and Guiliani as the event promoter...
I do not think he can beat Hillary. Especially if he ends up running as a third party. What he _will_ do is draw votes away from someone who _can_ beat Hillary.
Hillary WILL work to get AWBII crafted. Without loopholes. She WILL work to make sure it makes it to her desk. Oh, and she'll also sign it. Eagerly.
I don't think the Republicans, loathsome as they may be, will do much more than go through the motions around something like that - then they'll tell the portion of the electorate who wants more gun control "See, we tried for stronger gun control, but the people didn't really want it. So, we went on to something more important."
I'm voting against Hillary, for the candidate who I think can beat her.
Post by: roo_ster on February 04, 2008, 05:35:38 AM
Quote
McCain gets GOP nod, then what??
I don't pull the lever for the POTUS candidate from the Republicans, then.
I could hold my nose & vote for Romney.
I'd chew my arm off before voting McCain, who seems to be Ron Paul's evil twin:
* Good on foreign policy
* Horrifying on domestic policy (disqualifyingly so)
Post by: Silver Bullet on February 04, 2008, 06:45:35 AM
Quote
Bush loudly proclaimed that he was eager to sign it.
But ... did he proclaim it from a rooftop ?
Post by: Tallpine on February 04, 2008, 07:02:22 AM
http://www.amconmag.com/2008/2008_02_11/cover.html
Post by: Bigjake on February 04, 2008, 08:22:29 AM
Quote
You lied ; I proclaimed it from my computer room, nowhere near my rooftop.
gratuitous use of smileys man
Post by: Tecumseh on February 04, 2008, 08:35:25 AM
Tecumseh, just who wrote your revisionist history text?
Bush loudly proclaimed that he was eager to sign it. And then he called in a lot of favors to make sure it never happened.
Got any proof for that? Anything at all? Come on. I know in the student center debates we ask for something to back up these claims. so offer some proof.
Bush loudly proclaimed that he was eager to sign it. And then he called in a lot of favors to make sure it never happened.
Post by: pistolchamp on February 04, 2008, 12:37:35 PM
McCain certainly isn't perfect and neither are any of the others. I will vote for the Obamanation in the Texas primary, hopefully helping to defeat the Hildebeast. Other than that the only vote that PIECE OF CRAP would get from me is to put IT first in the firing line.
Then maybe we'd have a chance to win. I think it would be much easier to defeat a radically liberal black muslim than the Hildebeast. However, remember that I live in Texarkana and hear a lot from the Arkansas bunch and in general... like in the past the Hildebeast will NOT carry Arkansas, just like Comrade Clinton never carried his home state in a presidential election. Come to think of it, Kerry and Gore didn't carry their home states either... maybe the damocraps are just too dumb to run someone who has a bit of home support in him... we should listen to those who know them best.
However, in the general election... as opposed to throwing my very precious vote away I will NOT vote for a third party and certainly not Paul.
Ross Perot proved that a third party candidate will help defeat a good man. Our best bet would be for the Blooming Idiot mayor of New York to run as a third party candidate and pull some votes from the damocraps.
Ron Paul needs to go home and shut up and most certainly drop out of the race... consdiring that he has virtually NO support, he has influenced way too many... just on this board. He is totally unelectable and is embarrassing to everyone who lives in the United States.
I emplore each of you to consider exactly how important your vote is, way to important to throw away... and every vote for Paul is not just thrown away, but, a vote for the damocraps.
No matter who the GOP puts up, we are better off than with any damocrap... PERIOD! Just think about it, higher taxes, gun control, higher taxes, free medical, higher taxes... you got it, socialism right from the gitgo and you won't like it.
Post by: Bigjake on February 04, 2008, 01:51:20 PM
Quote
higher taxes, gun control, higher taxes, free medical, higher taxes... you got it, socialism right from the gitgo and you won't like it.
You just described McCain. Not happening.
Post by: Bogie on February 04, 2008, 01:59:32 PM
I see the McCain side as weighted a bit better. Not great by any means, but better.
And I like Hillary better than Obama....
FWIW, I've got some Hillary stickers made up - but it'll be hard to come up with Obama stickers - I'm hoping she wins tomorrow.
I think that either of them are beatable - and Obama will prove to be more difficult to beat, once the left unites, and commences to cry "foul racist!" about any negative statement made about him...
Post by: Paddy on February 04, 2008, 02:24:42 PM
Quote
No matter who the GOP puts up, we are better off than with any damocrap... PERIOD!
Except McCain. He's wound tighter than a banjo string. You do not want him in the Whitehouse. Everybody else who's running qualify as sane. I'm flat not voting this time.
Post by: CAnnoneer on February 04, 2008, 02:47:40 PM
Post by: Balog on February 04, 2008, 04:04:47 PM
Quote
Hillary WILL work to get AWBII crafted. Without loopholes. She WILL work to make sure it makes it to her desk. Oh, and she'll also sign it. Eagerly.
Take it from a guy who lived in AZ a long time; so would McCain. That man is evil.
Imho, Hillary would actually be considerably better than McCain. Why? One word; hatred. Everyone who isn't far, far left (and even many of them) hate her passionately. She tries to put AWBII together (and she definitely would) and everyone even remotely on our side would raise hell. Hillary is about the onlything even the Fudds can't ignore.
McCain is dangerous because he's the proverbial wolf in sheep's clothing. Liberals love him because he's as bad as they are on gun control, illegals, tax cuts, and probably worse on free speech suppression. "Moderates" love him because he's an R working with the D's, and everyone hates unilateralism and party politics; finally someone willing to truly "put the children first." Republicans would hold their nose and go along because you've gotta back your party, right? He can put legislation through easily that would have millions of people up in arms if the hildabeast was behind it. And it would be a huge object lesson to 'pubbies that the way to get elected is to be more liberal.
And let's face it, between social security and the massive socialist medicine system McCain or Hillary would put in place, the country is screwed. Whoever is in charge when that happens gets blamed, and blowback moves people in the opposite direction of whatever the person in power ostensibly stands for. I can only hope the inevitable crash and burn is enough to shake the 40+ years of narcissistic policies foisted on us by the undoubtedly worst generation, baby boomers. Stinking hippies.
Post by: Paddy on February 04, 2008, 04:24:47 PM
Quote
I can only hope the inevitable crash and burn is enough to shake the 40+ years of narcissistic policies foisted on us by the undoubtedly worst generation, baby boomers. Stinking hippies.
Nevermind you inherited one of the highest standards of living in the history of mankind. And the lowest tax rate in the modern industrialized world. And you did nothing for it. Nothing, except show up. STFU and keep paying your taxes.
Post by: Balog on February 04, 2008, 05:34:36 PM
Quote
I can only hope the inevitable crash and burn is enough to shake the 40+ years of narcissistic policies foisted on us by the undoubtedly worst generation, baby boomers. Stinking hippies.
Nevermind you inherited one of the highest standards of living in the history of mankind. And the lowest tax rate in the modern industrialized world. And you did nothing for it. Nothing, except show up. STFU and keep paying your taxes.
We've had this discussion before Riley. The filthy hippies inherited a great world and proceeded to bitch, moan, and smoke pot. The only thing that generation has given the world is a new standard in smugness and entitlement and the glorification of victimhood. I'll put my years in the Marines up against whatever you feel you've contributed to society and we'll see who's done more. And telling someone to shut the f### up is generally considered bad manners; I guess when you're argument is poor being rude is the next best thing.
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on February 04, 2008, 05:36:04 PM
McCain is dangerous because he's the proverbial wolf in sheep's clothing.
Post by: Balog on February 04, 2008, 05:38:42 PM
McCain is dangerous because he's the proverbial wolf in sheep's clothing.
Oh. My. God. I totally agree with HTG! That's one of the signs of the Apocalypse, isn't it?
Oh wait, I'd just throw my vote away on a write in candidate. /wipes brow. Wow, that was a close one.
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on February 04, 2008, 05:48:55 PM
For instance, I agree with you completely about the narcissistic entitlement mentality created by the baby boomers. It's gonna be darned hard to cure the social and economic ills they created.
Post by: Perd Hapley on February 04, 2008, 05:51:32 PM
Post by: Balog on February 04, 2008, 06:00:07 PM
I think if a female like Hillary becomes president, I will give up on America. I will become an "America-hater." Not of America-that-was, but of Amerika as it has become. I'm going to go do some drugs now.
You should move to Canada with all the celebs who left when El Presidente won in 2004.
Post by: Tecumseh on February 04, 2008, 06:08:01 PM
Ron Paul may have a few interesting and maybe even good ideas, but, he couldn't beat me in an election for President... and I wouldn't vote for me.
McCain certainly isn't perfect and neither are any of the others. I will vote for the Obamanation in the Texas primary, hopefully helping to defeat the Hildebeast. Other than that the only vote that PIECE OF CRAP would get from me is to put IT first in the firing line.
Then maybe we'd have a chance to win. I think it would be much easier to defeat a radically liberal black muslim than the Hildebeast. However, remember that I live in Texarkana and hear a lot from the Arkansas bunch and in general... like in the past the Hildebeast will NOT carry Arkansas, just like Comrade Clinton never carried his home state in a presidential election. Come to think of it, Kerry and Gore didn't carry their home states either... maybe the damocraps are just too dumb to run someone who has a bit of home support in him... we should listen to those who know them best.
However, in the general election... as opposed to throwing my very precious vote away I will NOT vote for a third party and certainly not Paul.
Ross Perot proved that a third party candidate will help defeat a good man. Our best bet would be for the Blooming Idiot mayor of New York to run as a third party candidate and pull some votes from the damocraps.
Ron Paul needs to go home and shut up and most certainly drop out of the race... consdiring that he has virtually NO support, he has influenced way too many... just on this board. He is totally unelectable and is embarrassing to everyone who lives in the United States.
I emplore each of you to consider exactly how important your vote is, way to important to throw away... and every vote for Paul is not just thrown away, but, a vote for the damocraps.
No matter who the GOP puts up, we are better off than with any damocrap... PERIOD! Just think about it, higher taxes, gun control, higher taxes, free medical, higher taxes... you got it, socialism right from the gitgo and you won't like it.
Obama is not a Muslim.McCain certainly isn't perfect and neither are any of the others. I will vote for the Obamanation in the Texas primary, hopefully helping to defeat the Hildebeast. Other than that the only vote that PIECE OF CRAP would get from me is to put IT first in the firing line.
Then maybe we'd have a chance to win. I think it would be much easier to defeat a radically liberal black muslim than the Hildebeast. However, remember that I live in Texarkana and hear a lot from the Arkansas bunch and in general... like in the past the Hildebeast will NOT carry Arkansas, just like Comrade Clinton never carried his home state in a presidential election. Come to think of it, Kerry and Gore didn't carry their home states either... maybe the damocraps are just too dumb to run someone who has a bit of home support in him... we should listen to those who know them best.
However, in the general election... as opposed to throwing my very precious vote away I will NOT vote for a third party and certainly not Paul.
Ross Perot proved that a third party candidate will help defeat a good man. Our best bet would be for the Blooming Idiot mayor of New York to run as a third party candidate and pull some votes from the damocraps.
Ron Paul needs to go home and shut up and most certainly drop out of the race... consdiring that he has virtually NO support, he has influenced way too many... just on this board. He is totally unelectable and is embarrassing to everyone who lives in the United States.
I emplore each of you to consider exactly how important your vote is, way to important to throw away... and every vote for Paul is not just thrown away, but, a vote for the damocraps.
No matter who the GOP puts up, we are better off than with any damocrap... PERIOD! Just think about it, higher taxes, gun control, higher taxes, free medical, higher taxes... you got it, socialism right from the gitgo and you won't like it.
Also what is a damocrap?
Post by: Silver Bullet on February 04, 2008, 06:58:23 PM
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gratuitous use of smileys man
Busted !
Post by: Bogie on February 04, 2008, 07:07:31 PM
The Democratic party will _insist_ that Clinton flog gun control.
President only has so much power.
Of course, if the gun culture negates itself as a voting bloc, maybe nobody will care that we won't like it, and do it anyway...
Post by: charby on February 04, 2008, 07:09:51 PM
President only has so much power.
Very true and I wish all the candidates remembered that when they get a case of verbal diarrhea about campaign promises.
Post by: CAnnoneer on February 04, 2008, 08:06:57 PM
Nevermind you inherited one of the highest standards of living in the history of mankind.
Is that the same standard of living which was generated by the Greatest Generation has been continuously eroded by bankrupting socialist policies since the Worst Generation started voting?
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And the lowest tax rate in the modern industrialized world.
Check your facts. Our corporate tax rate is certainly not lowest. Also, if you put in environmental regulations, worker benefits, tort overhead, and bureaucratic compliance burden, the conclusion will be even more decidedly against your stance.
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And you did nothing for it. Nothing, except show up.
Yeah, I showed up to the bloody awful mess of essentially bankrupt government, moral rot and capitulation, victimology, multiculturalism, hereditary welfare, unabashed socialist garbage, significantly curtailed personal freedoms including RKBA, chronically sick political process, commie school indoctrination, etc. Mighty fine legacy from a generation that had it all and pissed it all away.
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STFU and keep paying your taxes.
How typical. Oh, the sweet irony...
Post by: Ron on February 05, 2008, 03:52:54 AM
All of our choices have serious weaknesses including Dr. Paul.
Post by: roo_ster on February 05, 2008, 06:29:50 AM
I don't think the Republican party will _let_ McCain flog gun control.
The Democratic party will _insist_ that Clinton flog gun control.
President only has so much power.
Of course, if the gun culture negates itself as a voting bloc, maybe nobody will care that we won't like it, and do it anyway...
The Democratic party will _insist_ that Clinton flog gun control.
President only has so much power.
Of course, if the gun culture negates itself as a voting bloc, maybe nobody will care that we won't like it, and do it anyway...
The Republican congresscritter default position is to bow to the party leadership. Most will go along with McCain just because he is the POTUS and a Republican.
Hillary, OTOH, provides a fine target to oppose, even if she is saying the sun will rise in the east.
Post by: Paddy on February 05, 2008, 12:52:40 PM
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We've had this discussion before Riley. The filthy hippies inherited a great world and proceeded to bitch, moan, and smoke pot. The only thing that generation has given the world is a new standard in smugness and entitlement and the glorification of victimhood. I'll put my years in the Marines up against whatever you feel you've contributed to society and we'll see who's done more. And telling someone to shut the f### up is generally considered bad manners; I guess when you're argument is poor being rude is the next best thing.
For your information, the filthy hippies were a small part of my generation. Most of us spent our time working, in school or in the military. You were in the Marines? BFD. My service was in the U.S. Navy during Vietnam. So what?
The only bitching and moaning about victimhood I'm hearing is coming from you and your whiny peers about having to pay taxes like everybody else. You're not special, regardless of what you think. Taxes existed before you were born and they'll be around after you're dead, so you might as well get used to them.
Post by: Tecumseh on February 05, 2008, 01:18:47 PM
If McCain is the nominee he will get my vote for president.
All of our choices have serious weaknesses including Dr. Paul.
What are Ron Paul's weaknesses?
All of our choices have serious weaknesses including Dr. Paul.
Post by: roo_ster on February 06, 2008, 06:35:59 AM
If McCain is the nominee he will get my vote for president.
All of our choices have serious weaknesses including Dr. Paul.
What are Ron Paul's weaknesses?All of our choices have serious weaknesses including Dr. Paul.
You mean other than:
1. Being a whiny beeatch?
2. Flogging the "blame America first" meme?
3. Being pathetically inept at selling his good qualities and pro-liberty platform?
4. Attracting tinfoil-hatters by the baker's dozen as well as the America-hating crowd?
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 06, 2008, 06:58:34 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on February 06, 2008, 07:01:24 AM
jfuser siad it well his biggest weakness is those he attracts who feel compelled to endorse him in some odd way.
A bunch of people holding up Ron Paul signs and screaming that "9/11 was an inside job" was a charming example.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 06, 2008, 07:06:25 AM
Post by: CAnnoneer on February 06, 2008, 04:33:45 PM
For your information, the filthy hippies were a small part of my generation. Most of us spent our time working, in school or in the military.
If that is the case, then you essentially admit to a disproportionately large influence of a crazy minority onto the culture and politics of an entire generation. So you did not instigate the disasters, you just let them happen. That is equivalent to Germans saying that the Nazis were a small minority, and thus the common German contemporary bears no responsibility for the course of the Third Reich.
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bitching and moaning ... about having to pay taxes like everybody else. ... you might as well get used to them.
Taxes are just one of the problems of the babyboomer legacy. Also, nobody should ever get used to being treated badly by his own government.
Post by: Bigjake on February 06, 2008, 05:26:55 PM
Added- All of this whining about Hillary garnishing wages and forcing health care on those who don't want it, Social Security has been doing that since its inception. I don't see any field on my tax stub where I can just opt out....
Post by: Perd Hapley on February 06, 2008, 07:39:09 PM
and its a shame i genuinely like many of [Ron Paul's] positions and do think hes an honorable man i have to he looks like my dad
Same here. And my Dad is among his supporters. Not one of the loonies, but a supporter.
Post by: Perd Hapley on February 06, 2008, 07:40:37 PM
If McCain is the nominee he will get my vote for president.
All of our choices have serious weaknesses including Dr. Paul.
What are Ron Paul's weaknesses?All of our choices have serious weaknesses including Dr. Paul.
Bad foreign policy. Your response will be to pick apart Bush's foreign policy. But that doesn't make Ron Paul's any better.
Post by: K Frame on February 06, 2008, 08:50:08 PM
Then you either vote, or don't vote, in November.
Post by: Finch on February 06, 2008, 08:51:49 PM
Bad foreign policy.
Not starting wars that don't need to be started. What a horrible way to conduct business. The nerve of that man to suggest that we only start wars when they are actually necessary. Hmph!
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Flogging the "blame America first" meme?
What amazes me is that people actually think that the United States can go around kicking people in the nuts (figuratively) and are surprised when they get mad and attack us back. And of course you engage in a little more than your share of creative license, because Ron Paul never said that the United States is to to blame. But why let the truth get in the way, especially if it doesn't benefit the Neo-cons twisted view of how the world works.
Post by: Manedwolf on February 06, 2008, 08:56:56 PM
Post by: Finch on February 06, 2008, 08:59:52 PM
Finch, Ron Paul is even more naive on foreign policy than Jimmy Carter was.
I think is just one of those things that will have to remain a matter of opinion. I will never see the usefulness of invading countries we don't need to and killing our economy in the process.
Post by: Manedwolf on February 06, 2008, 09:03:49 PM
Finch, Ron Paul is even more naive on foreign policy than Jimmy Carter was.
I think is just one of those things that will have to remain a matter of opinion. I will never see the usefulness of invading countries we don't need to and killing our economy in the process.
Then study history more.
Post by: Finch on February 06, 2008, 10:48:20 PM
Finch, Ron Paul is even more naive on foreign policy than Jimmy Carter was.
I think is just one of those things that will have to remain a matter of opinion. I will never see the usefulness of invading countries we don't need to and killing our economy in the process.
Then study history more.
You mean like why the Roman and British Empires collapsed?
Post by: seeker_two on February 07, 2008, 01:32:19 AM
Finch, Ron Paul is even more naive on foreign policy than Jimmy Carter was.
I think is just one of those things that will have to remain a matter of opinion. I will never see the usefulness of invading countries we don't need to and killing our economy in the process.
Then study history more.
You mean like why the Roman and British Empires collapsed?
....or Germany and Austria-Hungary circa WWI?.....
Post by: Tecumseh on February 07, 2008, 02:49:43 AM
If McCain is the nominee he will get my vote for president.
All of our choices have serious weaknesses including Dr. Paul.
What are Ron Paul's weaknesses?All of our choices have serious weaknesses including Dr. Paul.
You mean other than:
1. Being a whiny beeatch?
2. Flogging the "blame America first" meme?
3. Being pathetically inept at selling his good qualities and pro-liberty platform?
4. Attracting tinfoil-hatters by the baker's dozen as well as the America-hating crowd?
So
1) Because of his demeanor? Or the fact that he whines about our civil rights and civil liberties? How he constantly whines when the Constitution is violated? That is a bad thing? Half the people on the gunforums complain about it when it involves the 2nd Amendment.
2) You need to study history and foreign policy, as others have stated. Have you ever read the 9/11 Commission report? I would suggest reading it. It may open your eyes.
3) I don't really understand what you mean. People are responding. Not en masse I can agree with. But at least he is trying. Its better than spreading the pro-war, anti-gun, anti-freedom platform that Guiliani, Thompson, McCain, Romney, and Huckabee are spreading. Do I need to mention Hillary or Obama and their record?
4) Please define the Hate-America crowd. And tin foil hatters?
Post by: roo_ster on February 07, 2008, 01:49:28 PM
1) Because of his demeanor? Or the fact that he whines about our civil rights and civil liberties? How he constantly whines when the Constitution is violated? That is a bad thing? Half the people on the gunforums complain about it when it involves the 2nd Amendment.
RP's demeanor was not that of a leader, but of a sniveler, sad to say. If you watched any of the debates, you would have noticed it. Not confidence-inspiring. 2) You need to study history and foreign policy, as others have stated. Have you ever read the 9/11 Commission report? I would suggest reading it. It may open your eyes.
RP left behind most of his platform in order to flog his "blame America first" horse because his only growth was coming from the anti-American crowd. RP indulges in a foreign policy fantasy where foreign nations are not free actors, but merely re-actors to every act by America. In the RP alternate-universe it is inconceivable that Islamo-loonies might be self-motivated to do mean & nasty things or any random dictator might put a thumpin' on his own people. Somehow, somewhere, America must have done something to make these poor, hapless pawns in the Great Game turn from a life of peaceful contemplation to brutal savagery.
Here is the foreign policy nitwit on Bhutto's Assassination:
Weve supported Musharraf and its created civil strife over there. If its al Qaeda that did this, the Al Qaeda resents the fact that we support military dictators, just as they resented us supporting a dictator in Saudi Arabia. And they resented that at one time we supported Saddam Hussein. Its just a perfect example of how interventionist foreign policy drags us in. And Im just frightened that were going to be dragged into another civil war over there because were in the middle of that already.
Oh, nooo, local Pakis couldn't have done this because they didn't want another round of Bhutto corruption or because the thought of a woman in power was hateful to them. Had to be US intervention. After all, Pakis have never killed political rivals in the past.
Knucklehead.
3) I don't really understand what you mean. People are responding. Not en masse I can agree with. But at least he is trying. Its better than spreading the pro-war, anti-gun, anti-freedom platform that Guiliani, Thompson, McCain, Romney, and Huckabee are spreading. Do I need to mention Hillary or Obama and their record?
It would have been nice if RP would have made substantive statements on those other principles. Something beyond text on his website. But, he knew his nutty customers, and they wanted blame America first red meat, not Jeffersonian principles.
As to his growth niche, see response #2 above.
4) Please define the Hate-America crowd. And tin foil hatters?
These Paulistas fit the tinfoil-hatter bill, as well as providing comic relief:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq_7251dqc8
Student Scholars for 9/11 Truth, also good tinfoil hat material:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2c5_1179338348
These goofs think that a Paul/Kucinich new investigation into 9/11 is just the thing to prove 9/11 was an inside job
RP is really trying to placate the 9/11 truther without committing to the 9/11 truther position. Does a good job, IMO.
[Tecumseh, is that you in the video? Are you THE Justin Martell?]
If you you think 9/11 was an inside job or that we had it coming, you are an America hater. I could give more detail, but I'll leave it at that.
=============
My conspiracy-theorist neighbor just put out his RP sign. I am sorely tempted to strike up a conversation with him and insinuate that RP is just a NWO plant.
Post by: thebaldguy on February 07, 2008, 02:00:14 PM
For you McCain supporters, Google "Keating five". Besides that, I will not vote for anyone who wants to continue the war in Iraq. Republicans should be worried about the 2012 presidential election as this one will go to the Democrats.
George Bush is the best thing that ever happened to the Democratic party.
Post by: seeker_two on February 07, 2008, 02:21:23 PM
Post by: Bigjake on February 07, 2008, 06:59:22 PM