Post by: Desertdog on February 03, 2008, 09:49:47 AM
Many Activists Despise McCain
By Joel Achenbach
Washington Post Staff Writer
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/01/AR2008020103260_pf.html
PHOENIX -- The protesters gather every morning before dawn, monitoring the entrance to a fenced compound called the Macehualli Work Center. They are trying to shut the place down. They wave placards and take photos of anyone driving in to pick up the day laborers who congregate there. They want nothing less than to save America from what they call "the invasion."
"Most of us don't feel safe on the Phoenix streets without being armed," says Wes Pecsok, a contractor who keeps his pistol in an inner vest pocket. "We're not going to be intimidated by these thugs. "
The protesters are members of the Minutemen, Riders USA, United for a Sovereign America. They find a common bond in their rage, their fury at the government, their loathing of Hispanics who have come to the United States illegally. They say that many immigrants carry disease, and kill cops, and rape children.
"We're the Wild West," protester Craig Tillman says with a smile.
The Wild West is actually a rather ordinary-looking, heavily commercialized artery called Bell Road. Mexico is a three-hour drive south of here, but Bell Road and places like it are where the worlds collide, one culture grinding against the other. And in the home state of Sen. John McCain, the front-runner for the Republican presidential nomination, that clash has driven a wedge straight through the Arizona GOP.
The party is controlled at the district level by activists who detest McCain for his sponsorship, with Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.), of a comprehensive immigration bill that among other things would have provided illegal immigrants with a pathway to citizenship. They think McCain is a traitor to conservative causes and an advocate for amnesty for illegal immigrants.
"We do not consider him a conservative at all," says Rob Haney, a Republican Party chairman in McCain's home district. The candidate's bus, the Straight Talk Express, should be renamed, Haney says: "We call it the Forked Tongue Express around here. He'll lie about anything."
Said John Acer, a lawyer who, like Haney, showed up last weekend at a meeting of the Republican state committee in Glendale: "He's despicable. Dishonest. Duplicitous." And so it goes, on and on, all these Republicans who wince at the mention of McCain's name, and who can think of few things worse than having the state's senior Republican senator ascend to the White House.
McCain is likely to win the state's Republican primary on Tuesday. He wins elections here in Arizona easily. Party activists don't control the Republicans in voting booths any more than they control the senior senator. But McCain's in-state problems reflect his national quandary as he tries to convince American conservatives that he's one of them.
Once home to Barry Goldwater, Arizona has a credible claim as the birthplace of modern American conservatism. But even Goldwater, late in life, found himself at odds with many conservatives in the state who laced the ideology with social issues that had nothing to do with low taxes and small government.
"I feel badly that, with a lot of these people, Barry Goldwater would be unwelcome," says Grant Woods, a moderate Republican and former Arizona attorney general. "I would hope for Arizona's future in the Republican Party is that it would continue to produce leaders of the caliber of Goldwater, of Sandra Day O'Connor, of John McCain; yet if this posture continues, from the state party, you won't see those leaders come from within the party anymore. Because no one in their right mind would deal with these people."
At the GOP meeting, a few volunteers staffed a McCain table, passing out fliers listing misconceptions about McCain -- playing defense in hostile territory.
Haney, probably the most vociferous of McCain's critics, patrolled the hallway wearing a little button on his lapel that read "McCain 2008" and had a slash through it. He agreed that Goldwater today wouldn't get his vote: "He's pro-abortion, pro-homosexual agenda," Haney said. And he says he sees little difference between McCain and Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton on the immigration issue. "He's for open borders. He's for amnesty. Hillary's for amnesty."
Nearby sat a man wearing a McCain button -- no slash. Horst Kraus, 77, said he immigrated from Germany in 1960. He owns a nudist camp in Arizona (and says the conservative Republicans outnumber everyone else by 2 to 1). The immigration rhetoric scares him.
"I see 1938 all over again," Kraus said. "Back then it was 'Jews, raus' " -- Jews, out.
"Now it's 'Mexicans, out,' " he said. "I am very disturbed by it."
On Bell Road, that fear is shared by the many Hispanics who work or shop at the car lots, pawnshops, liquor stores, furniture stores and check-cashing operations that line the highway, one of the main drags in North Phoenix.
"It's scary," says Mary Torres, 39, who works at a thrift shop.
"There's a hatred for rising Hispanic communities in Arizona. They don't want little L.A.'s in Arizona," says co-worker Barbara Gutierrez, 40.
"A lot of people are going to other states. Even Canada," Torres said.
"Less controversy. Less pressure," Gutierrez said.
Max Romero, 41, proprietor of John's Olde Barber Shop -- a Hispanic-oriented business with "peluqueria" stenciled on the front window -- says that most of his customers are more focused on the Super Bowl than on Super Tuesday. But he makes a prediction about Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.):
"I think that light-skinned brother's going to win. Because Oprah backs him up. The senator for us, McCain, he just seems so senile. He don't make no sense. Homeboy's young."
In the parking lot, men congregated around the back of a pickup truck, apparently hoping to get hired. More men gathered on a distant street corner. The day laborer center where the protests are held was vacant. The demonstrations have effectively shut the place down, scattering the workers.
A state law that took effect Jan. 1 heightens penalties on business owners who hire illegal immigrants. The consequences have yet to play out, but some proprietors on Bell Road say business is down as Hispanics either save their money or flee the state, to points unknown. Some people worry that crime will spike. And people are frightened.
The manager of a liquor store, a Palestinian man who gave his name only as John, said the crackdown on employers is going to have terrible consequences among the Hispanics who live in the area. They'll do "crazy stuff," he predicted.
"They're not going to go back to Mexico! There's no jobs there!"
Down the road on a side street next to the McDonald's where the protesters have gathered, Tillman said he'd never vote for McCain, or for any of the Democrats.
Rusty Childress, founder of United for a Sovereign America, said he hopes a television personality will come to the rescue: "Our hope would be that you'd get Lou Dobbs jumping in at the last minute."
Barb Heller said she fears what amounts to an annexation of parts of Arizona by the Mexican government: "The president of Mexico is saying that wherever there is a Mexican, that's Mexico."
She showed up for Saturday's protest with a surgical mask around her neck. "No TB please" was written on it.
A Hispanic man approached on the far side of the street. She put the mask on. She said she does it whenever someone might be carrying tuberculosis. Illegal immigrants don't have to pass health tests before getting jobs, she says. They might be working right there at McDonald's, she said.
"Do you know what it takes to spread TB? Would you like a little TB with your Happy Meal?"
She knows what people say about the protesters.
"They say, 'Why are you racist?' That's all they can come up with," she said.
Noon approached, and the demonstrators began to pack up their placards. They'd be back in the morning.
Post by: Manedwolf on February 03, 2008, 09:58:55 AM
Quote
their loathing of Hispanics who have come to the United States illegally.
their loathing of
Typical WaPo spin.
Also?
Quote
"I think that light-skinned brother's going to win. Because Oprah backs him up. The senator for us, McCain, he just seems so senile. He don't make no sense. Homeboy's young."
Coming sooner than we thought.
Post by: nico on February 03, 2008, 10:23:21 AM
Post by: The Viking on February 03, 2008, 11:57:37 AM
Quote
"I see 1938 all over again," Kraus said. "Back then it was 'Jews, raus' " -- Jews, out.
"Now it's 'Mexicans, out,' " he said. "I am very disturbed by it."
Nice way to compare those who have a different opinion from you with Nazis.
"Now it's 'Mexicans, out,' " he said. "I am very disturbed by it."
Post by: The Rabbi on February 03, 2008, 11:58:47 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on February 03, 2008, 12:05:03 PM
And immigration proves to be the losing issue I long ago predicted it would be. Next.
Incorrect. It's reaching a boiling point in many areas, particularly along the border, but elsewhere as well. It'll get worse when some hospitals, already on the edge, start shutting down because they can't handle the illegals using the ER as a first-aid kit, and can't turn them away.
The fact that the drug dealers coming across the border are free to shoot at our forces without fear of us shooting back is only accelerating the rising resentment.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 03, 2008, 12:06:49 PM
Quote
"I see 1938 all over again," Kraus said. "Back then it was 'Jews, raus' " -- Jews, out.
"Now it's 'Mexicans, out,' " he said. "I am very disturbed by it."
Nice way to compare those who have a different opinion from you with Nazis. "Now it's 'Mexicans, out,' " he said. "I am very disturbed by it."
man lived through the third reich if he sees a fourth in the making at least hes qualified to make the call.he bought and paid for his opinion with more than a lil blood
Post by: Desertdog on February 03, 2008, 12:37:47 PM
Quote
"Now it's 'Mexicans, out,' " he said. "I am very disturbed by it."
They fail, delibertly I believe, to hear what we are saying. We are not saying "Mexicans out" we are saying, ILLEGALS OUT no matter where they are from.
Post by: The Rabbi on February 03, 2008, 01:07:06 PM
And immigration proves to be the losing issue I long ago predicted it would be. Next.
Incorrect. It's reaching a boiling point in many areas, particularly along the border, but elsewhere as well. It'll get worse when some hospitals, already on the edge, start shutting down because they can't handle the illegals using the ER as a first-aid kit, and can't turn them away.
The fact that the drug dealers coming across the border are free to shoot at our forces without fear of us shooting back is only accelerating the rising resentment.
Sorry.
If it were a hot issue for the American public Tom Tancredo would be the GOP nominee instead of the has-been also-ran he is now. McCain took the most "liberal" position on the issue and it looks he's the winner.
You can predict all the Armageddon you want but the votes don't lie.
Post by: Bogie on February 03, 2008, 07:36:11 PM
In Chicago, they want someone who'll mow grass and shovel snow cheap.
Post by: slzy on February 04, 2008, 08:41:31 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on February 04, 2008, 08:43:13 AM
Bush is as much pro illegal alien as nccain is,but bush was blocked in congress. ice are making more raids,more local ordinances are standing up in court. the fight is just starting.
MA, surprisingly, just rounded up 400 illegals who were involved with MS-13 and deported them all. I guess people were getting tired of the 9mm noise.
Post by: CAnnoneer on February 04, 2008, 03:17:09 PM
If it were a hot issue for the American public Tom Tancredo would be the GOP nominee instead of the has-been also-ran he is now. McCain took the most "liberal" position on the issue and it looks he's the winner.
You can predict all the Armageddon you want but the votes don't lie.
You can predict all the Armageddon you want but the votes don't lie.
I would be more inclined to agree with you if it were not for the fact that McLie changed his position drastically to the right after his bill failed. For a long time now he has been repeating "enforcement first" and "criminals out at once". Also, he plays shameless Clintonian semantics games about what "amnesty" means. If you were right, he would have stuck to his original course and still come ahead. Also, at least some of his success, e.g. in NH, is ultimately due to leftists messing with the primaries disguised as independents.
Post by: Bigjake on February 04, 2008, 03:22:47 PM
MA, surprisingly, just rounded up 400 illegals who were involved with MS-13 and deported them all. I guess people were getting tired of the 9mm noise.
I was hoping to read "summarily executed", but we'll take what we can get from MA I guess.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 04, 2008, 03:32:02 PM
Bush is as much pro illegal alien as nccain is,but bush was blocked in congress. ice are making more raids,more local ordinances are standing up in court. the fight is just starting.
and yet the first cities that passed those ordinances are repealing them. and the new ordinances either haven't been challenged yet or in some areas like pw county va are being selectively/minimally enforced
Post by: roo_ster on February 04, 2008, 04:04:13 PM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 04, 2008, 06:07:58 PM
Farmers Branch, Texas, is seeing good results and expanding its efforts.
i'm not familair with what they've done. if they got it right more power to therm the towns backing off are 2 years or so into their "plan" how long has farmers branch been working a legal approach?
Post by: LAK on February 05, 2008, 05:16:37 AM
Houston Chronicle fronted an article day or so ago abot the influx of illegals into Houston because of the "tougher laws" in states like AZ and OK. If this is true Houston is going to get pretty bad - as if it is not already.
McCain is just another yes man. Another George Bush. A frontman.
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Post by: The Rabbi on February 05, 2008, 05:19:33 AM
This is THE issue with most people I meet and discuss politics with at random on the street.
"All my friends voted for Stevenson so why isn't he President??"
It is THE non-issue, as proven by the outcome of the primaries.
Post by: LAK on February 05, 2008, 05:26:20 AM
Post by: The Rabbi on February 05, 2008, 05:41:54 AM
So the many Diebold machines say. If you believe them that is.
They are of course in league with the tobacco companies. Or the drug companies. Or Dick Cheney. Or someone out there conspiring. I just know it!
Post by: Manedwolf on February 05, 2008, 06:00:38 AM
This is THE issue with most people I meet and discuss politics with at random on the street.
"All my friends voted for Stevenson so why isn't he President??"
It is THE non-issue, as proven by the outcome of the primaries.
A local person here was just hit-and-run by a car full of apparent illegals that sped off, that the police are now searching for. (hit them in the leg and hit their car, too) I'd be willing to bet there was no license, as per usual. If they're even caught.
The anger just grows every day. At the illegals, at the people who hire them, and at the politicians who do nothing.
Profit while you can, I guess, because something's going to break soon. I predict that the closure of hospitals that are barely holding on due to the ER being overwhelmed and unable to turn people away is going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back. That, or a particularly horrific crime committed by multiple-time-deported criminals.
When it comes, I hope the people who profit from hiring them are the first up against the wall. Because they caused the problem by giving them reason to come here.
Post by: roo_ster on February 05, 2008, 06:20:20 AM
Quote from: LAK
Houston Chronicle fronted an article day or so ago abot the influx of illegals into Houston because of the "tougher laws" in states like AZ and OK.
That is how it is working in Farmers Branch. They are enforcing the new ordinances with some aplomb, but not too aggressively, and the illegals are getting outta Dodge and going elsewhere in numbers greater than be accounted for by the enforcement to date.
Point being, talk about deporting 10-20 millions of illegals is beside the point. The effect of rousting one illegal has a multiplier effect similar to spending another dollar in the economy. Given a border fence preventing the introduction of new illegals, a moderate level of internal enforcement will cause large numbers of illegals to go home.
The goal being to turn a huge problem into a mild annoyance.
Post by: The Rabbi on February 05, 2008, 07:31:00 AM
This is THE issue with most people I meet and discuss politics with at random on the street.
"All my friends voted for Stevenson so why isn't he President??"
It is THE non-issue, as proven by the outcome of the primaries.
A local person here was just hit-and-run by a car full of apparent illegals that sped off, that the police are now searching for. (hit them in the leg and hit their car, too) I'd be willing to bet there was no license, as per usual. If they're even caught.
The anger just grows every day. At the illegals, at the people who hire them, and at the politicians who do nothing.
Profit while you can, I guess, because something's going to break soon. I predict that the closure of hospitals that are barely holding on due to the ER being overwhelmed and unable to turn people away is going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back. That, or a particularly horrific crime committed by multiple-time-deported criminals.
When it comes, I hope the people who profit from hiring them are the first up against the wall. Because they caused the problem by giving them reason to come here.
You can predict that Hillary Clinton will endorse Ron Paul. Doesn't mean it will happen.
I dont have to predict that immigration is a non-issue. It has already proven itself so. The candidates who talked tough are either out of the race or well on their way. The candidates most identified with "amnesty" and being "soft" on immigration will probably be the nominees. QED, it was a loser of an issue, as I predicted some months back.
Post by: The Viking on February 05, 2008, 10:24:52 AM
Quote
"I see 1938 all over again," Kraus said. "Back then it was 'Jews, raus' " -- Jews, out.
"Now it's 'Mexicans, out,' " he said. "I am very disturbed by it."
Nice way to compare those who have a different opinion from you with Nazis. "Now it's 'Mexicans, out,' " he said. "I am very disturbed by it."
man lived through the third reich if he sees a fourth in the making at least hes qualified to make the call.he bought and paid for his opinion with more than a lil blood
Post by: roo_ster on February 05, 2008, 11:01:57 AM
You'll see a lot of that here, too.
Some folks just can't resist playing the Nazi card.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 05, 2008, 02:09:14 PM
quitea remarkable thing being able to determine the legal status of folks that haven't been caught? how do you guys do that? we had a girl where i live that claimed she could tell folks were illegals that passed her going the other way on the road at relative 70 pluss mph. we need to get you folk to harness your super powers maybe go to work for ice or homeland security
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 05, 2008, 02:15:18 PM
http://www.aclu.org/immigrants/31856prs20070917.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/11/AR2006011102532.html
this next one is good
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7382343
Seven months ago, Colorado passed one of the toughest set of anti-immigration laws in the country. Now, heads of state agencies report that illegal immigrants really didn't use state services and the new laws cost more to implement than they save.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=071205_1_A1_hGOPs73808
OKLAHOMA CITY A Republican state senator called Tuesday for repeal of sections of House Bill 1804, a sweeping immigration reform effort.
Provisions of the new law essentially throw farmers and business owners under the bus, Sen. Harry Coates said in a prepared statement.
He called for repealing provisions dealing with harboring and transporting illegal immigrants.
I think people in the Legislature, the business community, private citizens and churches of many denominations are beginning to realize that this legislation is having an extremely negative impact on our state in many areas, said Coates, R-Seminole.
Since the bill became law last month, Coates said he has received numerous phone calls from farmers, business owners and contractors.
They want to know where the replacement workers will come from to fill the jobs resulting from the recent exodus of the immigrant worker, and they are angry with the Legislature for putting good politics ahead of good policy, Coates said.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on February 05, 2008, 02:18:46 PM
http://www.workpermit.com/news/2006_01_03/us/lawsuit_challenge_anti-immigrant_ordinance.htm
http://www.aclupa.org/pressroom/hazletonresidentssuetohalt.htm
i gotta go wash my hands after all those aclu links
Post by: LAK on February 07, 2008, 03:29:40 AM
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Post by: The Rabbi on February 07, 2008, 03:59:22 AM
I can accurately predict that the general TV and print media will treat the illegals as a non-issue. And when the time comes for the ringmasters to throw the contenders into their ferocious combat - it will simply not be an issue raised in the so-called "debates".
That's because the general public isn't really interested in the issue and doesnt perceive it as the crisis the so-called conservatives have painted it as. Witness the election results so far.
Post by: Manedwolf on February 07, 2008, 04:10:15 AM
I can accurately predict that the general TV and print media will treat the illegals as a non-issue. And when the time comes for the ringmasters to throw the contenders into their ferocious combat - it will simply not be an issue raised in the so-called "debates".
That's because the general public isn't really interested in the issue and doesnt perceive it as the crisis the so-called conservatives have painted it as. Witness the election results so far.It must be nice living in a bubble of your own mind, disconnected from the reality of life in most of the United States.
Post by: roo_ster on February 07, 2008, 04:58:31 AM
It is no great surprise that those who most benefited from the illegals squawk when the illegals are run off.
I have limited sympathy, since those were the guys who were screwing their neighbors by passing the cost of illegals' presence on to the taxpayers.
Post by: The Rabbi on February 07, 2008, 05:37:09 AM
I can accurately predict that the general TV and print media will treat the illegals as a non-issue. And when the time comes for the ringmasters to throw the contenders into their ferocious combat - it will simply not be an issue raised in the so-called "debates".
That's because the general public isn't really interested in the issue and doesnt perceive it as the crisis the so-called conservatives have painted it as. Witness the election results so far.It must be nice living in a bubble of your own mind, disconnected from the reality of life in most of the United States.
And that is why the majority of Republican voters have nominated Tom Tancredo as standard bearer for the party, because of his strong stand on illegals.
Talk about a bubble of the mind.
Post by: Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas on February 08, 2008, 09:55:17 AM
Quote
That's because the general public isn't really interested in the issue and doesnt perceive it as the crisis the so-called conservatives have painted it as. Witness the election results so far.
So it would seem. Romney's biggest claim to conservatism (that I noticed) was his stance on immigration. That's what made him 'the only true conservative'. But he lost bigtime - even in California, where immigration's probably a major concern. Maybe the conservatives just stayed home and said "to hell with it." Others said: "Screw 'em all, I'm voting for Paul. Burmashave."Post by: roo_ster on February 08, 2008, 11:17:38 AM
A House race in northeastern Pennsylvania promises to be another test of how immigration control resonates with voters. Lou Barletta, mayor of Hazleton, Pa., announced Thursday that he's running to unseat Democrat Paul Kanjorski, something he tried unsuccessfully in 2002. But that was before Barletta took the lead in local-level response to illegal immigration by passing a tough measure in 2006, which is still being challenged in court by guess who the ACLU and its minions. The effort has made him a star locally, where he won election to a third term as mayor in November on both the Republican and the Democratic tickets (Democratic fans had written in his name during their primary). Kanjorski knows that a lax (i.e., Bush-McCain-like) stance on immigration could cost him his job even in the heavily Democratic district, so he's taken Rahm Emanuel's advice (see the end of my Thursday piece) and moved right on immigration; Americans for Better Immigration gives him a D+ lifetime grade, but he's brought it up to a C+ for the past two years. Barletta told me with a chuckle a couple months ago that Kanjorski'd sent out a mailer to the district explaining how tough he supposedly was on border enforcement. It would seem like Barletta's got a shot at winning the race, but, as Lincoln said, with high hope for the future, no prediction in regard to it is ventured.
The main points, IMO, are that even if Barletta does not win the congressional seat:
1. Public awareness of the government's and some of their neighbors' perfidy on this issue.
2. Policritters who want to get re-elected move toward enforcement, as did every Republican contender as well as Hillary Clinton.
The Rabbi truly does confuse the personal with the political, normally a fault of the Left. It is effectuated policy, not personality, that is important.
After his drubbing in 2007 by the popular uprising against his amnesty bill, McCain moved, in rhetoric, toward the Tancredo position. Just yesterday, at CPAC, he went even farther toward Tancredo's position.
Policritters who must actually face voters saw which way the people were headed and sprinted in their direction to get in front of them (Romney, Huck, Thompson, Giuliani, McCain, Clinton). That is not the mark of a loser issue. It is the mark of a popular issue when policritters fall all over themselves to claim it.
Post by: seeker_two on February 08, 2008, 12:07:47 PM
So the many Diebold machines say. If you believe them that is.
They are of course in league with the tobacco companies. Or the drug companies. Or Dick Cheney. Or someone out there conspiring. I just know it!
The Jewish Rabbi is claiming conspiracy......how about that.....
Post by: The Rabbi on February 08, 2008, 12:30:44 PM
A House race in northeastern Pennsylvania promises to be another test of how immigration control resonates with voters. Lou Barletta, mayor of Hazleton, Pa., announced Thursday that he's running to unseat Democrat Paul Kanjorski, something he tried unsuccessfully in 2002. But that was before Barletta took the lead in local-level response to illegal immigration by passing a tough measure in 2006, which is still being challenged in court by guess who the ACLU and its minions. The effort has made him a star locally, where he won election to a third term as mayor in November on both the Republican and the Democratic tickets (Democratic fans had written in his name during their primary). Kanjorski knows that a lax (i.e., Bush-McCain-like) stance on immigration could cost him his job even in the heavily Democratic district, so he's taken Rahm Emanuel's advice (see the end of my Thursday piece) and moved right on immigration; Americans for Better Immigration gives him a D+ lifetime grade, but he's brought it up to a C+ for the past two years. Barletta told me with a chuckle a couple months ago that Kanjorski'd sent out a mailer to the district explaining how tough he supposedly was on border enforcement. It would seem like Barletta's got a shot at winning the race, but, as Lincoln said, with high hope for the future, no prediction in regard to it is ventured.
The main points, IMO, are that even if Barletta does not win the congressional seat:
1. Public awareness of the government's and some of their neighbors' perfidy on this issue.
2. Policritters who want to get re-elected move toward enforcement, as did every Republican contender as well as Hillary Clinton.
The Rabbi truly does confuse the personal with the political, normally a fault of the Left. It is effectuated policy, not personality, that is important.
After his drubbing in 2007 by the popular uprising against his amnesty bill, McCain moved, in rhetoric, toward the Tancredo position. Just yesterday, at CPAC, he went even farther toward Tancredo's position.
Policritters who must actually face voters saw which way the people were headed and sprinted in their direction to get in front of them (Romney, Huck, Thompson, Giuliani, McCain, Clinton). That is not the mark of a loser issue. It is the mark of a popular issue when policritters fall all over themselves to claim it.
Post by: The Rabbi on February 08, 2008, 12:33:56 PM
So the many Diebold machines say. If you believe them that is.
They are of course in league with the tobacco companies. Or the drug companies. Or Dick Cheney. Or someone out there conspiring. I just know it!
The Jewish Rabbi is claiming conspiracy......how about that.....
I have to contrast myself to all those non-Jewish rabbis out there.
Genius.
Post by: mtnbkr on February 08, 2008, 02:05:34 PM
Chris